Doug Clark

Is it true that no VISA is required if I take a ship arranged group
tour?





Can I just hire someone via the internet for my personal group and
call it the same as above?






Doug Clark

Leland Windreich

Since any visit to Russia can be tricky, be sure to get your info from the
travel company that is selling the cruise, AND NOT from the random opinions
of members in this chat group.
"Doug Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Is it true that no VISA is required if I take a ship arranged group
    > tour?
    > Can I just hire someone via the internet for my personal group and
    > call it the same as above?
    > Doug Clark

Karen Selwyn

Doug Clark wrote:

    > Is it true that no VISA is required if I take a ship arranged group
    > tour?

Yes.

    > Can I just hire someone via the internet for my personal group and
    > call it the same as above?

No.

Some tour agencies -- like Red October -- will handle the task of
getting a visa for your group.

Karen Selwyn

Karen Selwyn

Leland Windreich wrote:
>
    > Since any visit to Russia can be tricky, be sure to get your info from the
    > travel company that is selling the cruise, AND NOT from the random opinions
    > of members in this chat group.

Reasonable enough advice about visits to Russia. However, I'm no more
impressed with the recommendation that the OP get his advice from one
lone individual who is a cruise employee. They are wrong on a wide
variety of topics with depressing frequency. A more reliable compromise
is for the OP to ask the questiontno rec.travel.cruises. The responses
there will be on the basis of experience. There will be many responses
so the OP may feel some safety in numbers. A Google search will produce
the same results.

Karen Selwyn

Doug Clark

Thanks for the infomation.

I know in my heart that the ship-arranged group tour would not be
satisfying. I would feel cheated.

So my group would be just my wife and I.

We just want to get off the ship;

Go to the Hermitage for the day with a break for an inexpensive
Russian lunch;


Go to the Marisky sp. theatre with the locals for a "non-fake" evening
of opera or ballet or classical music in the cheap seats.

Return to the ship.

Is this possible?


Doug Clark

Karen Selwyn <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<dYtPc.2605$Jo1.1023@lakeread01>...
    > Doug Clark wrote:
    >
    > > Is it true that no VISA is required if I take a ship arranged group
    > > tour?
    >
    > Yes.
    >
    > > Can I just hire someone via the internet for my personal group and
    > > call it the same as above?
    >
    > No.
    >
    > Some tour agencies -- like Red October -- will handle the task of
    > getting a visa for your group.
    >
    > Karen Selwyn

Karen Selwyn

Doug Clark wrote:
    >
    > I know in my heart that the ship-arranged group tour would not be
    > satisfying. I would feel cheated.

Don't assume you'll be cheated. If your ship-arranged tour includes
admission to the Hermitage earlier than the opening time to the general
public, pay for that in a heartbeat. Even if you do *none* of the other
activities on the tour, early admission is fantastic! Just arrange with
the people accompanying the ship-booked tour that you'll be staying
independently at the Hermitage. In fact, look for any tour that allows
early admission to the Hermitage. We were in St. Petersburg two weeks
ago with a university group and we had early admission. Our tour began
with the Dutch masters and continued chronologically up to the
Impressionist and post-Impressionist collection. During this two-hour
period, our tour group was able to stay ahead of the crush of humanity.
My husband and I stayed in the Hermitage an additional five hours, but
it was much harder going because we had to wait for tour groups to step
away from paintings to get a good view. The arrangements for our day
included occasional shuttle bus service from St. Petersburg to the river
cruise ship which served as our group's hotel.

    > Go to the Hermitage for the day with a break for an inexpensive
    > Russian lunch;

Either of the two cafes in the Hermitage -- the internet cafe or the
regular cafe -- will meet your needs. They are located essentially
across the hall from one another. Since you intend to make a day of
looking at the exhibits at the Hermitage, I wouldn't leave the museum
for lunch.

I do have a moderately priced restaurant to recommend for dinner. We ate
at Kavkaz Bar, a Georgian restaurant on Karavannaya Street, off Nevsky
Prospkekt. We were advised to order lots of starters rather than a main
dish. We decided "lots" meant three per person. That was too much food!
Somehow, we managed to eat most of the food anyway because it was so
delicious. If you like Turkish food, you will feel you are on reasonably
familiar ground eating Georgian food.

    > Go to the Marisky sp. theatre with the locals for a "non-fake" evening
    > of opera or ballet or classical music in the cheap seats.

Oh dear. If the goal is "non-fake" you're not going to have much luck.
The Mariinsky ballet company's season in St. Petersburg has ended. Some
of the company is currently touring other cities in Russia. Anything
being shown now is specifically for tourists and is not first-rate. Of
the many theaters putting on performances for tourists, I recommend you
attend something at the Hermitage State Theater rather than the
Mariinsky. Based on a conversation we had with the couple with whom we
shared a table at lunch, the Hermitage company is actually featuring
some of the principal dancers from the Mariinsky. The couple said the
corps was appallingly ragged, but, at least, some of the leads were the
real deal.

We saw a performance at the Alexandrinsky Theater performed by a company
calling itself (I kid you not) Russian Ballet. Are you a regular ballet
goer? If so, I'm sure you know how the dual role of Odette/Odile in SWAN
LAKE is a test of a ballerina's skill. (For those non-ballet goers, the
challenge is Can theballerina successfully convey both the romance and
timidity of Odette and the confident, sexuality of Odile?) Suffice it to
say that the roles of Odette/Odile had to be assigned to two separate
ballerinas because the Russian Ballet company included no one who could
pull off the double role.

Since we see both the Kirov and the Bolshoi companies dance annually as
part of our ballet subscription, we found compensations in the gilt box
beauty of the theater and the chance to see the hysterically funny
Soviet-era ending to SWAN LAKE for a second time.

    > Is this possible?

It depends on your confidence and sense of adventure. The street signs
in the area you'd be walking are written in both Russian and "Latin"
letters so finding your way using a map is very do-able. The distance
from the Hermitage to the Mariinsky Theater is a hefty walk, especially
after a day on your feet at the Hermitage. Obviously, attending a
performance at the Hermitage Theater would simplify your life.

My husband and I were with our tour group until approximately noon.
Then, we were on our own within the Hermitage for four plus hours. We
remained on our own through dinner and re-joined our tour group at the
theater for the ballet. One small area of concern about being on our own
was the understanding that pickpockets are more aggressive in St.
Petersburg than in other cities; however, our concern was not enough to
make us give up our independent plans.

I have no idea where the big cruise ships dock so I can't give you a
sense of distances to the city center.

You will need a visa. I don't know how actively the ship's security
personnel moniters cruisers going ashore to see if they're properly
documented. Incidentally, I'm assuming the $300 cost you cited is to pay
for a Russian visa was driven by the cost of having a service to do the
work for you. The actual cost of a visa to Russia is only $100.

Karen Selwyn

Laura F Spira

Doug Clark wrote:
    > Thanks for the infomation.
    >
    > I know in my heart that the ship-arranged group tour would not be
    > satisfying. I would feel cheated.

You could be wrong. Last summer we took a Baltic cruise on a Norwegian
Cruise Lines ship. As we had visited most of the other ports of call
before, we didn't take the organised tours, apart from the St Petersburg
one, and we were a bit apprehensive about the wisdom of doing this. We
were warned that as it was high season we might have to queue at the
Hermitage and that it would be very crowded, but when we arrived we were
let in early and our tour party had the place to itself for a couple of
hours.

Our guides were superb, especially the archaeology students who showed
us round the Gold Room. (I'm not sure how easy it is to get entry to
that part of the museum if you are not in an organised party: the
exhibits are truly amazing.) One of the guides had been involved in the
filming of "Russian Ark" (do watch it before you go - see
http://www.russianark.spb.ru/eng/) which was very interesting to hear
about.

I had explored the Hermitage web site at home and had a very clear idea
of what I wanted to see - amazingly all the things I had identified were
covered in the tour, but after the tour we also had time to wander on
our own. Finding our way about independently would have reduced the
amount of time we had available and we would certainly have missed things.

The US passengers who took more of the organised tours than we did told
us that this was the best in terms of authoritative guides with good
English, the advantages of early entry and the degree of freedom allowed.

Enjoy your trip!
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

?Ystein

[email protected] (Doug Clark) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > Is it true that no VISA is required if I take a ship arranged group
    > tour?
    >

No, if I can guess from what country you are by your name, you have to
have a visa to visit Russia.

Jan

?Ystein

[email protected] (Doug Clark) wrote in message news:<[email protected] om>...
    > Thanks for the infomation.
    >
    > I know in my heart that the ship-arranged group tour would not be
    > satisfying. I would feel cheated.
    >
    > So my group would be just my wife and I.
    >
    > We just want to get off the ship;
    >
    > Go to the Hermitage for the day with a break for an inexpensive
    > Russian lunch;
    >
    >
    > Go to the Marisky sp. theatre with the locals for a "non-fake" evening
    > of opera or ballet or classical music in the cheap seats.
    >
    > Return to the ship.
    >
    > Is this possible?
    >
As a rule of thumb all theatres and concert halls are closed in July
and August. As others have suggested, the theatres that are actually
open tends to be the most visited tourist theatres. It sound
reasonable that often it is not the normal ensemble that plays/acts
during the summer holidays.

You have only suggeeted real tourist traps among the things you want
to see though. Is that because you prefer only to see the tourist
traps or because you don't know any other places that you could find
interesting?

Jan

Toomas

You can't newer know what Russian think. Last year they don't require
visa from international cruises but decided to requre one from
cruises between Helsinki- St.Petersburg- Tallinn- Helsinki. It is
mostly politics and hunger of money. roles may thage in weeks so what
is true today is neccesary true next week. It is Russia.

Toomas



On 2 Aug 2004 08:23:39 -0700, [email protected] (Doug Clark)
wrote:

    >Is it true that no VISA is required if I take a ship arranged group
    >tour?
    >Can I just hire someone via the internet for my personal group and
    >call it the same as above?
    >Doug Clark

Karen Selwyn

?ystein wrote:
    >
    > No, if I can guess from what country you are by your name, you have to
    > have a visa to visit Russia.

Do not use the information about land-based tour travel or independent
travel to answer visa questions about cruise ports of call in Russia.
The process is quite different. Cruise lines have made arrangements for
passengers taking ship-sponsored excursions in the city of St.
Petersburg to do so without the need for a tourist visa. Cruisers
wishing to tour independently or with St. Petersburg-based tour
companies must still obtain a visa. By offering their passengers the
"carrot" of visiting Russia without a visa, the cruise lines have
developed a strategy for maximizing their income for their excursions.

Karen Selwyn

Steltzjr

<< but it was much harder going because we had to wait for tour groups to step
away from paintings to get a good view. >>

This is a bit of an aside.
It bothers me that Tour Groups feel they have a right to move right in front of
a picture and then stay there for what seems forever.
We've all paid the same price to get in.
My wife and I have even been physically shouldered aside by newly arriving tour
groups.
I give the tour group what seems to be a decent amount of time and then I'll
just move in front of them and take "my turn" at looking at the picture.

Rita

On 04 Aug 2004 01:43:21 GMT, [email protected] (Steltzjr) wrote:

    ><< but it was much harder going because we had to wait for tour groups to step
    >away from paintings to get a good view. >>
    >This is a bit of an aside.
    >It bothers me that Tour Groups feel they have a right to move right in front of
    >a picture and then stay there for what seems forever.
    >We've all paid the same price to get in.
    >My wife and I have even been physically shouldered aside by newly arriving tour
    >groups.
    >I give the tour group what seems to be a decent amount of time and then I'll
    >just move in front of them and take "my turn" at looking at the picture.

I thought I was the only person who did that

Laura F Spira

Karen Selwyn wrote:
    > ?ystein wrote:
    >
    >> No, if I can guess from what country you are by your name, you have to
    >> have a visa to visit Russia.
    >
    >
    > Do not use the information about land-based tour travel or independent
    > travel to answer visa questions about cruise ports of call in Russia.
    > The process is quite different. Cruise lines have made arrangements for
    > passengers taking ship-sponsored excursions in the city of St.
    > Petersburg to do so without the need for a tourist visa. Cruisers
    > wishing to tour independently or with St. Petersburg-based tour
    > companies must still obtain a visa. By offering their passengers the
    > "carrot" of visiting Russia without a visa, the cruise lines have
    > developed a strategy for maximizing their income for their excursions.
    >

My understanding is that visas are always required for visiting Russia,
however you arrive. For those arriving on a cruise ship, taking the
cruise company's tour saves individuals the bother of getting their own
because the company does it for them on a group basis. Similarly, when
visiting Helsinki independently on a previous occasion, I was offered a
sea trip to St Petersburg: a visa was needed but the tour organisers
would arrange it. I have no doubt that the premium paid for the service
is significant but I don't know how much cheaper it is to arrange your
own visa, or how easy this is.




--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

?Ystein

Karen Selwyn <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<fKSPc.6781$Jo1.4495@lakeread01>...
    > ?ystein wrote:
    > >
    > > No, if I can guess from what country you are by your name, you have to
    > > have a visa to visit Russia.
    >
    > Do not use the information about land-based tour travel or independent
    > travel to answer visa questions about cruise ports of call in Russia.
    > The process is quite different. Cruise lines have made arrangements for
    > passengers taking ship-sponsored excursions in the city of St.
    > Petersburg to do so without the need for a tourist visa. Cruisers
    > wishing to tour independently or with St. Petersburg-based tour
    > companies must still obtain a visa. By offering their passengers the
    > "carrot" of visiting Russia without a visa, the cruise lines have
    > developed a strategy for maximizing their income for their excursions.

I don't know about that. When I see that in writing from the officials
I belive it. What I do know is that everybody looking like a foreigner
(and a group from a cruiseship definately do that) in St Petersburg
and Moscow, is very likely to be stopped by the police for document
checks. If you have experienced that you will understand what I mean
when I say it sounds very strange that they will accept anything but
a passport including a valid visa.

Jan