skidog

I am searching for ideas for my next trip, starting June 10, 2007. I
will be traveling for about 3 weeks.

I am considering visiting Croatia and want to hear the experiences of
those who have toured Croatia. Where did you visit? I am hoping to
do some scuba diving somewhere. I also want to visit some ancient
structures such as castles. I want to see the sights, and take
photographs.

I looked into some pricing; one site listed their prices in Kn and
when I checked exchange rates came up with this:

1.00 HRK
Croatia Kuna = 0.173018 USD
United States Dollars

I am guessing that the Kn is the same as the HRK, is this right?

After some research, I am considering Rovinj, near the water, seems
more accessible, but I really don't know.

From what I've learned so far, it would be much less expensive to fly
to Italy or Austria and then travel by train or boat to Croatia, does
this seem reasonable?

Thank you,

Robert

Sarah Banick

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >I am searching for ideas for my next trip, starting June 10, 2007. I
    > will be traveling for about 3 weeks.
    > I am considering visiting Croatia and want to hear the experiences of
    > those who have toured Croatia. Where did you visit? I am hoping to
    > do some scuba diving somewhere. I also want to visit some ancient
    > structures such as castles. I want to see the sights, and take
    > photographs.
    > I looked into some pricing; one site listed their prices in Kn and
    > when I checked exchange rates came up with this:
    > 1.00 HRK
    > Croatia Kuna = 0.173018 USD
    > United States Dollars
    > I am guessing that the Kn is the same as the HRK, is this right?
    > After some research, I am considering Rovinj, near the water, seems
    > more accessible, but I really don't know.
    > From what I've learned so far, it would be much less expensive to fly
    > to Italy or Austria and then travel by train or boat to Croatia, does
    > this seem reasonable?
    > Thank you,
    > Robert

I love Croatia -- been twice. But I can't answer many of your questions.
I've been to Zagreb, and the islands between Split and Dubrovnik (two
fascinating cities). If you want ancient structures, you'll love Split. The
old center is based in Dioclecion's Palace. And no one should miss Dubrovnik
if they come to Croatia. Do a quick search and you'll see what I mean. The
whole Dalmacian coast is spectacular and very photogenic; if you like
history, it's the land of many cultures....

Yes, HRK is the kuna. Hrvatska is the country's name in its own language.

It's a great country, prices are very reasonable (read: cheap), and I'd go
back in a heartbeat.

Tom Peel

[email protected] schrieb:
    > I am searching for ideas for my next trip, starting June 10, 2007. I
    > will be traveling for about 3 weeks.
    >
    > I am considering visiting Croatia and want to hear the experiences of
    > those who have toured Croatia. Where did you visit? I am hoping to
    > do some scuba diving somewhere.

When we were there a few years back, it seemed you had to apply for a
special permit to do scuba diving in Croatia- fill in forms, pay money,
wait, that kind of thing. I recommend you check this on one of the scuba
NGs. As I was only near the diving station for few days I didn't pursue
the project any further. I did some snorkelling, but where we were at
least (Losinj, Krk) there was not much underwater life to be seen.

T.

I also want to visit some ancient
    > structures such as castles. I want to see the sights, and take
    > photographs.
    >
    > I looked into some pricing; one site listed their prices in Kn and
    > when I checked exchange rates came up with this:
    >
    > 1.00 HRK
    > Croatia Kuna = 0.173018 USD
    > United States Dollars
    >
    > I am guessing that the Kn is the same as the HRK, is this right?
    >
Yes

    > After some research, I am considering Rovinj, near the water, seems
    > more accessible, but I really don't know.
    >
    > From what I've learned so far, it would be much less expensive to fly
    > to Italy or Austria and then travel by train or boat to Croatia, does
    > this seem reasonable?
    >
    > Thank you,
    >
    > Robert
    >


--
J'ai r�v� qu'on pouvait s'aimer
au souffle du vent

Carole Allen

    >[email protected] schrieb:
    >> I am searching for ideas for my next trip, starting June 10, 2007. I
    >> will be traveling for about 3 weeks.
    >>
    >> I am considering visiting Croatia and want to hear the experiences of
    >> those who have toured Croatia. Where did you visit? I am hoping to
    >> do some scuba diving somewhere.
You should see Plitvice - plan a minimum of a day if you like hiking
- it's not strenuous - a pleasant day of nature walking. The lakes
are beautiful.

Dubrovnik is a must - you should plan time to walk the entire wall
around the town. The views are spectacular. You could go caving in
Paklenica.

Zagreb is a lovely town, very walkable, and has its share of history
as well, plus the Ethnographic Museum. The countryside around Zagreb
is pleasant, with places such as Veliki Tabor. Miragoj cemetery is
full of amazing sculpture - it's like an outdoor art gallery - very
serene and peaceful. It's about a 15 minute bus ride from Zagreb
(catch the bus in front of the Cathedral.)

Evolutions Sins

You simply must do a day or two in a "RandomVill," start chatting it
up with some of the locals and get a chance to get to the little local
restaurants, which are more less just someones back yard or front
deck. It all else fails pick up a hitch hiker and ask around. Go to
one of these!

As for diving i saw some diving schools when i was done there, they
are common, and the water is really clear. I didn't go myself because
i didn't have enough time to learn.

People will treat you like towns(wo)men if you are relaxed.




--
To new to the group to have a real sig

David Horne

<[email protected]> wrote:

    > I am searching for ideas for my next trip, starting June 10, 2007. I
    > will be traveling for about 3 weeks.
    >
    > I am considering visiting Croatia and want to hear the experiences of
    > those who have toured Croatia. Where did you visit?

Only quite a small part of the northern coasts and Islands. Mali Losinj
and a day trip to some small nearby islands, then Pula on the Istrian
peninsular coast, with a trip tio Rovinj. We plan to visit again and go
further south to Split, Dubrovnik etc.

    > I am hoping to
    > do some scuba diving somewhere. I also want to visit some ancient
    > structures such as castles. I want to see the sights, and take
    > photographs.

Pula has a magnificent Roman ampitheatre- quite superb, I thought.

Can't help with scuba diving either, but I did see quite a lot of the
tourist agencies advertising diving trips etc.

[]
    > After some research, I am considering Rovinj, near the water, seems
    > more accessible, but I really don't know.

Accessible in what way? We took public transport everywhere, and it's
well connected by bus to the rest of the peninsula, and Rijeka which is
a transport hub. It's a very pretty town indeed too- it's quite compact,
though we found it quite heaviliy touristed. Pula has more industry, but
I found it more interesting in terms of sights and history.

    > From what I've learned so far, it would be much less expensive to fly
    > to Italy or Austria and then travel by train or boat to Croatia, does
    > this seem reasonable?

Can't help you with that, as we came down from Lubjljana. There are
boats to various Italian cities- e.g. Venice and Ancona, and they are
not too expensive- around 40-60 euro single IIRC. You might need to book
in advance though- we thought about going to Venice from Pula as a long
way of getting back up to Austria but the tickets were sold out several
days beforehand.

The small part we visited we found enchanting, and the people are very
nice and friendly. You will sometimes find (in that part of Croatia at
any rate) that English is not widely spoken. We found Italian, and
occasionaly German, helpful at times. Indeed, on the Istrian coast,
there is something of a rebirth of Italian heritage- the street names
are in Italian as well as Croatian, and Italian-speaking schools are
becoming increasingly popular. I don't think the food is _as_ good as
what you can expect in Italy, but it was very good, and quite a lot
cheaper of course. All the vacationing Italians seemed happy anyway! :)

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://www.davidhorne.net/pictures.html http://soundjunction.org

David Horne

David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate <[email protected]> wrote:

    > <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
    > > After some research, I am considering Rovinj, near the water, seems
    > > more accessible, but I really don't know.
    >
    > Accessible in what way? We took public transport everywhere, and it's
    > well connected by bus to the rest of the peninsula, and Rijeka which is
    > a transport hub. It's a very pretty town indeed too- it's quite compact,
    > though we found it quite heaviliy touristed. Pula has more industry, but
    > I found it more interesting in terms of sights and history.

That's unclear- but it should be obvious to anyone who has been to both
Rijeka and Rovinj that the _latter_ was what I referred to as a "very
pretty town." :)

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://www.davidhorne.net/pictures.html http://soundjunction.org

Giovanni Drogo

On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate wrote:

    > Mali Losinj
known in Italy as Lussinpiccolo
    > then Pula
known in Italy as Pola
    > with a trip tio Rovinj.
known in Italy as Rovigno
    > further south to Split, Dubrovnik etc.
known in Italy as Spalato and Ragusa (sic!)

    > well connected by bus to the rest of the peninsula, and Rijeka which is
known in Italy as Fiume (both Rijeka and Fiume are common words
meaning "river").

the coast had been under venetian rule until the Venetian Republic
existed, then was incorporated in the Austrian empire, then was part
of Italy between WWI and WWII. So most of the place names are
"historical", although somebody finds not "politically correct" to
use them.

    > nice and friendly. You will sometimes find (in that part of Croatia at
    > any rate) that English is not widely spoken. We found Italian, and
    > occasionaly German, helpful at times. Indeed, on the Istrian coast,
    > there is something of a rebirth of Italian heritage- the street names
    > are in Italian as well as Croatian, and Italian-speaking schools are
    > becoming increasingly popular.

Interesting to know. I heard things were not as easy in the past,
nothing comparable to e.g. the standing of German language in Alto
Adige / Sued Tirol in Italy.

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David Horne

Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of
    > city south and deansgate wrote:
    >
    > > Mali Losinj
    > known in Italy as Lussinpiccolo
    > > then Pula
    > known in Italy as Pola
    > > with a trip tio Rovinj.
    > known in Italy as Rovigno
    > > further south to Split, Dubrovnik etc.
    > known in Italy as Spalato and Ragusa (sic!)

Ragusa I'd never heard before- gosh, that would catch you out!

And of course, further north into Slovenia you have Koper/Capodistria.


    > > well connected by bus to the rest of the peninsula, and Rijeka which is
    > known in Italy as Fiume (both Rijeka and Fiume are common words
    > meaning "river").
    >
    > the coast had been under venetian rule until the Venetian Republic
    > existed, then was incorporated in the Austrian empire, then was part
    > of Italy between WWI and WWII. So most of the place names are
    > "historical", although somebody finds not "politically correct" to
    > use them.

Given the history, especially the repression of Croatian names when it
was Italian, it makes the resurgence of Italian all the more
interesting. The mix of Hapsburg and Venetian influences are evident-
making it a a fascinating mix.

    > > nice and friendly. You will sometimes find (in that part of Croatia at
    > > any rate) that English is not widely spoken. We found Italian, and
    > > occasionaly German, helpful at times. Indeed, on the Istrian coast,
    > > there is something of a rebirth of Italian heritage- the street names
    > > are in Italian as well as Croatian, and Italian-speaking schools are
    > > becoming increasingly popular.
    >
    > Interesting to know. I heard things were not as easy in the past,

Well, indeed, and that went both ways depending on who was 'in control.'
It seems an interesting phenomenon- reclaiming relatively recent
history. While English is spoken in some parts of the peninsula (there's
a large restort south of Pula popular with Brits apparently) I'd say
that Italian is more useful in that part of Croatia.

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://www.davidhorne.net/pictures.html http://soundjunction.org

Giovanni Drogo

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate wrote:

    > > > further south to Split, Dubrovnik etc.
    > > known in Italy as Spalato and Ragusa (sic!)
    >
    > Ragusa I'd never heard before- gosh, that would catch you out!

In fact it is rather misleading since there is a Ragusa also in Sicily.

When I was a kid and TV was more intelligent than it is now, they made a
sequel story out of the novel "Il Mulino del Po" ("the Po mill") by
Bacchelli (set somewhere in the provinces of Rovigo or Ferrara), and one
of the characters was a money-lender called "il Raguseo" which meant he
was coming from Ragusa/Dubrovnik in Dalmatia.

I suppose you heard Zadar/Zara.

I believe Zara and Pola were even italian provinces during the fascist
regime (well, it should have started after 1918 so it was not
technically fascist until 1922 but anyhow ...)

Pola was the seat of a navy base (possibly pre-dating back into Hapsburg
times) in the '40s. My father was sent there for his military service in
the navy in something called CREM (I believe the acronym stood for Corpo
Reale Equipaggi Marittimi , Royal Corps of Maritime Crews, but was
commonly rendered as Carcere Reclusorio Eterno Martirio ... prison and
jail of eternal martyrdom :-) ). He said that at the time the locals (I
do not know whether he was talking of locals of venetian or croatian
origin) were not particularly friendly with the young people sent there
in the navy (but were with the "fascist" volunteers).

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Jack Campin - bogus address

    >>> Mali Losinj
    >> known in Italy as Lussinpiccolo
    >>> then Pula
    >> known in Italy as Pola
    >>> with a trip tio Rovinj.
    >> known in Italy as Rovigno
    >>> further south to Split, Dubrovnik etc.
    >> known in Italy as Spalato and Ragusa (sic!)
    > Ragusa I'd never heard before- gosh, that would catch you out!

Nobody but mediaeval historians uses the name now.

For the others, acceptability varies. "Pola" would probably be fine.
There are probably about as many Italian-speakers in Losinj as
Croatian-speakers (and there are some very strange dialects in the
northern Adriatic islands that are mixtures of Italian and Croatian
where it isn't clear which is primary and which are unintelligible to
both Croatian and Italian monoglots). Using the other Italian names
would mostly get you regarded as a harmless twit (like those Greeks
who insist on calling Istanbul "Konstantinopoli"), but using the name
"Fiume" in the wrong place in Rijeka could get your head kicked in,
as its associations with Italian rule are unusually horrible (being
the place where fascism was invented, under D'Annunzio).

For centuries, Dalmatia was ruled by Venice or Italy in much the same
way as Ireland was by the British (i.e. total economic devastation
forcing mass emigration, accompanied by smug platitudes about the
colonizers being a superior civilization). Croats get twitchy about
names in the same way as the Irish do.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

David Horne

Jack Campin - bogus address <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >>> Mali Losinj
    > >> known in Italy as Lussinpiccolo
    > >>> then Pula
    > >> known in Italy as Pola
    > >>> with a trip tio Rovinj.
    > >> known in Italy as Rovigno
    > >>> further south to Split, Dubrovnik etc.
    > >> known in Italy as Spalato and Ragusa (sic!)
    > > Ragusa I'd never heard before- gosh, that would catch you out!
    >
    > Nobody but mediaeval historians uses the name now.
    >
    > For the others, acceptability varies. "Pola" would probably be fine.
    > There are probably about as many Italian-speakers in Losinj as
    > Croatian-speakers (and there are some very strange dialects in the
    > northern Adriatic islands that are mixtures of Italian and Croatian
    > where it isn't clear which is primary and which are unintelligible to
    > both Croatian and Italian monoglots). Using the other Italian names
    > would mostly get you regarded as a harmless twit (like those Greeks
    > who insist on calling Istanbul "Konstantinopoli"),

Do you get postcards in Istanbul which use that name? I very much doubt
it. Meanwhile, postcards, guidebooks, timetables, pretty much most
things which can have an Italian name included in addition to the
Croatian, include it on the Istrian coast. Indeed, I talked to some
Croatians in Italian who were using Italianate names when I wasn't.

    > but using the name
    > "Fiume" in the wrong place in Rijeka could get your head kicked in,
    > as its associations with Italian rule are unusually horrible (being
    > the place where fascism was invented, under D'Annunzio).

I think you're maybe missing the point. On the Istrian coast in Croatia
(of which Rijeka is not a part), there's a conscious reclamation of
Italian. It's not the Italians forcing Croats there to put street signs
in Italian as well as Croatian.

    > For centuries, Dalmatia was ruled by Venice or Italy in much the same
    > way as Ireland was by the British (i.e. total economic devastation
    > forcing mass emigration, accompanied by smug platitudes about the
    > colonizers being a superior civilization). Croats get twitchy about
    > names in the same way as the Irish do.

Which is why so many street signs in the last decade or so in Istria
have been replaced with bilingual ones, I guess.

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://www.davidhorne.net/pictures.html http://soundjunction.org

Giovanni Drogo

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, David Horne, _the_ chancellor .... wrote:
    > Jack Campin - bogus address <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > >>> Dubrovnik etc.
    > > >> known in Italy as Spalato and Ragusa (sic!)
    > >
    > > Nobody but mediaeval historians uses the name now.

Maybe outside of Italy. Here we often use italianized words to refer to
foreign place names to which there was an historical liaison : Parigi,
Londra, Atene, Costantinopoli (but I admit that's a bit historical),
Pechino (although now for somebody it is fashionable to write Bejing and
mispronounce it), Vienna, Berlino, Magonza, Ratisbona ...

    > > "Fiume" in the wrong place in Rijeka could get your head kicked in,
    > > as its associations with Italian rule are unusually horrible (being
    > > the place where fascism was invented, under D'Annunzio).

Well, fascism was "invented" in the "cove" of via Paolo da Cannobio in
Milan by a guy called Mussolini, who did a bad ending later in piazzale
Loreto. I am not sympathetic at all with istrian refugees revanchism no
more than I am with, for example, prussian revanchism, and I'd probably
use "Rijeka" or "Kaliningrad" talking to a local, but I might use
"Fiume" or "Koenigsberg" talking to somebody else.

    > I think you're maybe missing the point. On the Istrian coast in Croatia
    > (of which Rijeka is not a part), there's a conscious reclamation of
    > Italian. It's not the Italians forcing Croats there to put street signs
    > in Italian as well as Croatian.

That's somewhat a pleasant surprise, as I've never heard of an
obligation endorsed by a treaty to protect the italian minority in
Slovenia or Croatia, like the De Gasperi - Gruber arrangement between
Italy and Austria to protect the german group (actually a majority) in
Alto Adige Sued Tirol. We have bilinguism by law in public offices and
schools in Valle d'Aosta (italian/french), Alto Adige Sued Tirol
(italian/german) and some areas in Friuli Venezia Giulia
(italian/slovenian). But I've seen bilingual street names only in Valle
d'Aosta and Alto Adige Sued Tirol. Of these the largest minority is the
german one (for instance if you look on the web site of the Ministry of
Finances for the income tax declaration form, there is the main italian
version and the german version, but no french or slovenian version).

    > > For centuries, Dalmatia was ruled by Venice or Italy in much the same
    > > way as Ireland was by the British (i.e. total economic devastation

I may surely agree that the fascist rule in "alloglots" area was not
respecting language minorities at all (that's true for Valle d'Aosta,
Alto Adige Sud Tirol as well as the slovenian areas near the east
border) from ridiculous things like changing place names in areas where
they'd never been bilingual, to actual discrimination, to instigated
immigration from other parts of Italy.

I've never heard such "bad press" about the "historical" venetian rule
(which anyhow was dead and buried after Napoleon when all the area was
ruled by the Austrian empire).

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Dave Frightens Me

On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:38:01 +0200, Giovanni Drogo
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, David Horne, _the_ chancellor .... wrote:
    >> Jack Campin - bogus address <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> > >>> Dubrovnik etc.
    >> > >> known in Italy as Spalato and Ragusa (sic!)
    >> >
    >> > Nobody but mediaeval historians uses the name now.
    >Maybe outside of Italy. Here we often use italianized words to refer to
    >foreign place names to which there was an historical liaison : Parigi,
    >Londra, Atene, Costantinopoli (but I admit that's a bit historical),
    >Pechino (although now for somebody it is fashionable to write Bejing and
    >mispronounce it), Vienna, Berlino, Magonza, Ratisbona ...

Not to mention Monaco and... Monaco!
--
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---
--

Gorazd Bozic

Giovanni Drogo wrote:
    >
    > That's somewhat a pleasant surprise, as I've never heard of an
    > obligation endorsed by a treaty to protect the italian minority in
    > Slovenia or Croatia, like the De Gasperi - Gruber arrangement between
    > Italy and Austria to protect the german group (actually a majority) in
    > Alto Adige Sued Tirol. We have bilinguism by law in public offices and

I do not know whether it is specified in the Treaty of Osimo or
somewhere else, but protective provisions for Italian minority were in
place already officially in the time of former Socialist Federative
Republic of Yugoslavia. The coastal area of Slovenia was all marked with
signs in both languages for as long as I can remember (let's say 30
years). I probably heard Italian for the first time from the
Koper/Capodistria TV (part of national TV, but with it's own programme
and frequencies).

All official signs were both in Slovenian and Italian and you had to be
fluent in both languages if you wanted a job in a government-funded
position. Slovenia has not changed this after 1991 and Italian minority
has its own representative in the parliament.

    > schools in Valle d'Aosta (italian/french), Alto Adige Sued Tirol
    > (italian/german) and some areas in Friuli Venezia Giulia
    > (italian/slovenian). But I've seen bilingual street names only in Valle

I think that so far Italy has been very slow to adopt agreed protection
of Slovenian minority and lots of it had stayed on paper only.

Gorazd