Credit card fraud
Mar 26th 2007, 7:55 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
[email protected] wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:04:43 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"PeterL" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Why would anyone need a PIN to use a credit card?
>>
>>Because that is the way things have gone in much of Europe.
>
>
>I read the above with interest. Does that mean that when I take my
>Canadian Master card or Visa to use in Europe, I will be required to
>have a PIN number for them? Is this new? Is this widespread?
>
>In Canada, the only time you need a credit card pin is at a cash
>machine.
>
>Since I don't need a PIN for my CC, I don't have one. Not one I
>remember anyway.
>
>
>Does this mean I have to now get one?
>
Conditions may vary from place to place. My understanding is that in
Ireland, the place I know best, retailers may accept non-chip&pin
cards from overseas. I expect that most, if not all, will go with
that. Some might not.
If your bank gives you the option, I suggest that you request a
chip&pin card if you plan to come to Europe.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:04:43 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"PeterL" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Why would anyone need a PIN to use a credit card?
>>
>>Because that is the way things have gone in much of Europe.
>
>
>I read the above with interest. Does that mean that when I take my
>Canadian Master card or Visa to use in Europe, I will be required to
>have a PIN number for them? Is this new? Is this widespread?
>
>In Canada, the only time you need a credit card pin is at a cash
>machine.
>
>Since I don't need a PIN for my CC, I don't have one. Not one I
>remember anyway.
>
>
>Does this mean I have to now get one?
>
Conditions may vary from place to place. My understanding is that in
Ireland, the place I know best, retailers may accept non-chip&pin
cards from overseas. I expect that most, if not all, will go with
that. Some might not.
If your bank gives you the option, I suggest that you request a
chip&pin card if you plan to come to Europe.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
Mar 26th 2007, 9:25 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:43:07 +0100, "nightjar"
<nightjar@<insert my surname here>.uk.com> wrote:
>
>"Alec" <alexis2525 @ mail.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>>
>> "John Stolz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>I had my credit card stolen in Geneva last week and was surprised that the
>>>thief was able to use it at more than 10 stores without the PIN. I
>>>thought the pin system was supposed to be unbreakable?
>>>
>>> Not my money being stolen, but it is inconvenient being without a card
>>> until I get a new one.
>>>
>>>
>> In Switzerland a lot of establishments aren't wired up with chip and pin
>> terminals, so your card was processed for signature and your thief just
>> copied your squiggles.
>
>When I had cards stolen, before chip and PIN, they didn't even bother to
>copy my signature. They crudely erased it and put their own version of my
>name on. However, nobody spotted it, probably because they didn't check the
>signature at all.
>
>Colin Bignell
>
Something I noticed north of the Equator. Down here
signature checks are routine by cashiers, checkout staff
etc. Most are trained to retain the card until the slip
appears for signature and they don't return it until you've
signed and they've checked. I found that to be rare in the
US and Europe.
The routine there was to ignore the card as soon as it had
been swiped. I can't remember an instance of a clerk or
cashier even glancing at the signature.
Consequently we took extreme precautions to safeguard our
cards.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
<nightjar@<insert my surname here>.uk.com> wrote:
>
>"Alec" <alexis2525 @ mail.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>>
>> "John Stolz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>I had my credit card stolen in Geneva last week and was surprised that the
>>>thief was able to use it at more than 10 stores without the PIN. I
>>>thought the pin system was supposed to be unbreakable?
>>>
>>> Not my money being stolen, but it is inconvenient being without a card
>>> until I get a new one.
>>>
>>>
>> In Switzerland a lot of establishments aren't wired up with chip and pin
>> terminals, so your card was processed for signature and your thief just
>> copied your squiggles.
>
>When I had cards stolen, before chip and PIN, they didn't even bother to
>copy my signature. They crudely erased it and put their own version of my
>name on. However, nobody spotted it, probably because they didn't check the
>signature at all.
>
>Colin Bignell
>
Something I noticed north of the Equator. Down here
signature checks are routine by cashiers, checkout staff
etc. Most are trained to retain the card until the slip
appears for signature and they don't return it until you've
signed and they've checked. I found that to be rare in the
US and Europe.
The routine there was to ignore the card as soon as it had
been swiped. I can't remember an instance of a clerk or
cashier even glancing at the signature.
Consequently we took extreme precautions to safeguard our
cards.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
Mar 26th 2007, 9:29 am
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:42:35 GMT, "tile"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>well. The credit card company has my signature.
>My passport has my signature. ( I guess every passport has.. )
>So. whoever steals my card will have to prove that
You're serious? So what happens if the thief signs your card
and is never asked for additional ID when presenting it?
If I were you I'd be very reticent about admitting this
tactic of yours to your credit card company when the
inevitable happens and fraudulent use occurs. I suspect
you'll find that they will not refund you a cent.
It's analagous to leaving your keys in the ignition of your
car - difficult to claim the insurance then.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>well. The credit card company has my signature.
>My passport has my signature. ( I guess every passport has.. )
>So. whoever steals my card will have to prove that
You're serious? So what happens if the thief signs your card
and is never asked for additional ID when presenting it?
If I were you I'd be very reticent about admitting this
tactic of yours to your credit card company when the
inevitable happens and fraudulent use occurs. I suspect
you'll find that they will not refund you a cent.
It's analagous to leaving your keys in the ignition of your
car - difficult to claim the insurance then.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
Mar 26th 2007, 9:30 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:01:16 -0700,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>The most likely form of ID (and the only one most vendors
>require) being your signed credit card! (Are you REALLY
>that clueless, or are these posts a troll?)
I was thinking the latter, but have decided the former...
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>The most likely form of ID (and the only one most vendors
>require) being your signed credit card! (Are you REALLY
>that clueless, or are these posts a troll?)
I was thinking the latter, but have decided the former...
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
Mar 26th 2007, 9:36 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:55:57 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:04:43 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>"PeterL" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Why would anyone need a PIN to use a credit card?
>>>
>>>Because that is the way things have gone in much of Europe.
>>
>>
>>I read the above with interest. Does that mean that when I take my
>>Canadian Master card or Visa to use in Europe, I will be required to
>>have a PIN number for them? Is this new? Is this widespread?
>>
>>In Canada, the only time you need a credit card pin is at a cash
>>machine.
>>
>>Since I don't need a PIN for my CC, I don't have one. Not one I
>>remember anyway.
>>
>>
>>Does this mean I have to now get one?
>>
>Conditions may vary from place to place. My understanding is that in
>Ireland, the place I know best, retailers may accept non-chip&pin
>cards from overseas. I expect that most, if not all, will go with
>that. Some might not.
>
>If your bank gives you the option, I suggest that you request a
>chip&pin card if you plan to come to Europe.
When did the rules change?
I used my chip-less Aussie cards all over Europe and North
America mid-last-year. My cards are combined debit/credit;
if I select "credit" (credit card a/c) then all I needed was
a signature. If I select debit (savings a/c) then PIN is
required.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:04:43 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>"PeterL" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Why would anyone need a PIN to use a credit card?
>>>
>>>Because that is the way things have gone in much of Europe.
>>
>>
>>I read the above with interest. Does that mean that when I take my
>>Canadian Master card or Visa to use in Europe, I will be required to
>>have a PIN number for them? Is this new? Is this widespread?
>>
>>In Canada, the only time you need a credit card pin is at a cash
>>machine.
>>
>>Since I don't need a PIN for my CC, I don't have one. Not one I
>>remember anyway.
>>
>>
>>Does this mean I have to now get one?
>>
>Conditions may vary from place to place. My understanding is that in
>Ireland, the place I know best, retailers may accept non-chip&pin
>cards from overseas. I expect that most, if not all, will go with
>that. Some might not.
>
>If your bank gives you the option, I suggest that you request a
>chip&pin card if you plan to come to Europe.
When did the rules change?
I used my chip-less Aussie cards all over Europe and North
America mid-last-year. My cards are combined debit/credit;
if I select "credit" (credit card a/c) then all I needed was
a signature. If I select debit (savings a/c) then PIN is
required.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
Mar 26th 2007, 9:36 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
Make credence recognised that on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:49:30 +0100,
"nightjar" <nightjar@<insert my surname here>.uk.com> has scripted:
>
>"tile" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]. ..
>> I use a trick now. I do not sign my credit cards.
>> It will be almost impossible for any thief to make a signature similar to
>> mine,
>
>They don't have to. They only have to have a signature that matches the one
>on the card. If you don't sign your card, the thief will and will get a
>perfect match.
I'd been wondering if I missed something in what he said.
As for me, I always heeded the warning to "sign your card
immediately".
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
"nightjar" <nightjar@<insert my surname here>.uk.com> has scripted:
>
>"tile" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]. ..
>> I use a trick now. I do not sign my credit cards.
>> It will be almost impossible for any thief to make a signature similar to
>> mine,
>
>They don't have to. They only have to have a signature that matches the one
>on the card. If you don't sign your card, the thief will and will get a
>perfect match.
I'd been wondering if I missed something in what he said.
As for me, I always heeded the warning to "sign your card
immediately".
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Mar 26th 2007, 9:41 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
Make credence recognised that on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:52:33 GMT, "Alan"
<[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>"Mike O'Sullivan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use a trick now. I do not sign my credit cards.
>>>
>>> Pardon me if the logic of your "trick" escapes me! The purpose of
>>> signing your card is for your own protection - to make it difficult for
>>> any one else to forge your signature. Although it is possible for the
>>> thief to also be an expert forger, it's unlikely. However, if YOU don't
>>> sign your credit card, what is to prevent the thief doing so? (In which
>>> case his/her signature would agree with the one on the card.)
>>
>> I think he was being facetious.
>
>i think he was being a prat
He's writing in a language that is not his own, and originates from a
nation full of petty scams. He isn't being a prat or facetious IMO.
There may well be reason to his madness, but I haven't understood it
yet.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
<[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>"Mike O'Sullivan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use a trick now. I do not sign my credit cards.
>>>
>>> Pardon me if the logic of your "trick" escapes me! The purpose of
>>> signing your card is for your own protection - to make it difficult for
>>> any one else to forge your signature. Although it is possible for the
>>> thief to also be an expert forger, it's unlikely. However, if YOU don't
>>> sign your credit card, what is to prevent the thief doing so? (In which
>>> case his/her signature would agree with the one on the card.)
>>
>> I think he was being facetious.
>
>i think he was being a prat
He's writing in a language that is not his own, and originates from a
nation full of petty scams. He isn't being a prat or facetious IMO.
There may well be reason to his madness, but I haven't understood it
yet.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Mar 26th 2007, 10:28 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:55:57 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Conditions may vary from place to place. My understanding is that in
>>Ireland, the place I know best, retailers may accept non-chip&pin
>>cards from overseas. I expect that most, if not all, will go with
>>that. Some might not.
>>
>>If your bank gives you the option, I suggest that you request a
>>chip&pin card if you plan to come to Europe.
>
>When did the rules change?
>
In Ireland, last week. You will be ahead of the Aussie pack with that
useful knowledge. Nearly everybody has been issued with chip&pin cards
in the past twelve months, and most retailers moved over gradually,
using either technology, depending on the card presented. Now chip&pin
is mandatory for Irish-issued cards..
>I used my chip-less Aussie cards all over Europe and North
>America mid-last-year. My cards are combined debit/credit;
>if I select "credit" (credit card a/c) then all I needed was
>a signature. If I select debit (savings a/c) then PIN is
>required.
>
The roll-out is happening fairly fast around Europe, but on different
timetables in different countries. You got your trip done in time.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:55:57 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Conditions may vary from place to place. My understanding is that in
>>Ireland, the place I know best, retailers may accept non-chip&pin
>>cards from overseas. I expect that most, if not all, will go with
>>that. Some might not.
>>
>>If your bank gives you the option, I suggest that you request a
>>chip&pin card if you plan to come to Europe.
>
>When did the rules change?
>
In Ireland, last week. You will be ahead of the Aussie pack with that
useful knowledge. Nearly everybody has been issued with chip&pin cards
in the past twelve months, and most retailers moved over gradually,
using either technology, depending on the card presented. Now chip&pin
is mandatory for Irish-issued cards..
>I used my chip-less Aussie cards all over Europe and North
>America mid-last-year. My cards are combined debit/credit;
>if I select "credit" (credit card a/c) then all I needed was
>a signature. If I select debit (savings a/c) then PIN is
>required.
>
The roll-out is happening fairly fast around Europe, but on different
timetables in different countries. You got your trip done in time.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
Mar 26th 2007, 10:56 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:28:01 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:55:57 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Conditions may vary from place to place. My understanding is that in
>>>Ireland, the place I know best, retailers may accept non-chip&pin
>>>cards from overseas. I expect that most, if not all, will go with
>>>that. Some might not.
>>>
>>>If your bank gives you the option, I suggest that you request a
>>>chip&pin card if you plan to come to Europe.
>>
>>When did the rules change?
>>
>In Ireland, last week. You will be ahead of the Aussie pack with that
>useful knowledge. Nearly everybody has been issued with chip&pin cards
>in the past twelve months, and most retailers moved over gradually,
>using either technology, depending on the card presented. Now chip&pin
>is mandatory for Irish-issued cards..
>
>>I used my chip-less Aussie cards all over Europe and North
>>America mid-last-year. My cards are combined debit/credit;
>>if I select "credit" (credit card a/c) then all I needed was
>>a signature. If I select debit (savings a/c) then PIN is
>>required.
>>
>The roll-out is happening fairly fast around Europe, but on different
>timetables in different countries. You got your trip done in time.
Will the system make allowances in any way for foreign
cards? I can't imagine Visa, Amex and Mastercard letting
their big-budget customers discover this the hard way; they
must have some sort of programme in mind to allow their
non-European customers to travel overseas. So would the
major retailers relying on tourists.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:55:57 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Conditions may vary from place to place. My understanding is that in
>>>Ireland, the place I know best, retailers may accept non-chip&pin
>>>cards from overseas. I expect that most, if not all, will go with
>>>that. Some might not.
>>>
>>>If your bank gives you the option, I suggest that you request a
>>>chip&pin card if you plan to come to Europe.
>>
>>When did the rules change?
>>
>In Ireland, last week. You will be ahead of the Aussie pack with that
>useful knowledge. Nearly everybody has been issued with chip&pin cards
>in the past twelve months, and most retailers moved over gradually,
>using either technology, depending on the card presented. Now chip&pin
>is mandatory for Irish-issued cards..
>
>>I used my chip-less Aussie cards all over Europe and North
>>America mid-last-year. My cards are combined debit/credit;
>>if I select "credit" (credit card a/c) then all I needed was
>>a signature. If I select debit (savings a/c) then PIN is
>>required.
>>
>The roll-out is happening fairly fast around Europe, but on different
>timetables in different countries. You got your trip done in time.
Will the system make allowances in any way for foreign
cards? I can't imagine Visa, Amex and Mastercard letting
their big-budget customers discover this the hard way; they
must have some sort of programme in mind to allow their
non-European customers to travel overseas. So would the
major retailers relying on tourists.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
Mar 26th 2007, 11:25 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:28:01 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>When did the rules change?
>>>
>>In Ireland, last week. You will be ahead of the Aussie pack with that
>>useful knowledge. Nearly everybody has been issued with chip&pin cards
>>in the past twelve months, and most retailers moved over gradually,
>>using either technology, depending on the card presented. Now chip&pin
>>is mandatory for Irish-issued cards..
>>
>>The roll-out is happening fairly fast around Europe, but on different
>>timetables in different countries. You got your trip done in time.
>
>Will the system make allowances in any way for foreign
>cards? I can't imagine Visa, Amex and Mastercard letting
>their big-budget customers discover this the hard way; they
>must have some sort of programme in mind to allow their
>non-European customers to travel overseas. So would the
>major retailers relying on tourists.
>
I sometimes write carefully, and I did here in saying that chip&pin is
mandatory for Irish-issued cards. Non-Irish cards can still be used
with signatures.
Some retailers, particularly outside the main tourist outlets, might
not be aware of that. I have already heard on cards being refused, but
that might be cases of traders not yet fully understanding the new
arrangements.
My opinion is that if your card provider has a chip&pin option
available, it is a good idea to exercise that option.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:28:01 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>When did the rules change?
>>>
>>In Ireland, last week. You will be ahead of the Aussie pack with that
>>useful knowledge. Nearly everybody has been issued with chip&pin cards
>>in the past twelve months, and most retailers moved over gradually,
>>using either technology, depending on the card presented. Now chip&pin
>>is mandatory for Irish-issued cards..
>>
>>The roll-out is happening fairly fast around Europe, but on different
>>timetables in different countries. You got your trip done in time.
>
>Will the system make allowances in any way for foreign
>cards? I can't imagine Visa, Amex and Mastercard letting
>their big-budget customers discover this the hard way; they
>must have some sort of programme in mind to allow their
>non-European customers to travel overseas. So would the
>major retailers relying on tourists.
>
I sometimes write carefully, and I did here in saying that chip&pin is
mandatory for Irish-issued cards. Non-Irish cards can still be used
with signatures.
Some retailers, particularly outside the main tourist outlets, might
not be aware of that. I have already heard on cards being refused, but
that might be cases of traders not yet fully understanding the new
arrangements.
My opinion is that if your card provider has a chip&pin option
available, it is a good idea to exercise that option.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
Mar 26th 2007, 4:20 pm
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
"Alan S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:43:07 +0100, "nightjar"
> <nightjar@<insert my surname here>.uk.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Alec" <alexis2525 @ mail.com> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]. ..
>>>
>>> "John Stolz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>I had my credit card stolen in Geneva last week and was surprised that
>>>>the
>>>>thief was able to use it at more than 10 stores without the PIN. I
>>>>thought the pin system was supposed to be unbreakable?
>>>>
>>>> Not my money being stolen, but it is inconvenient being without a card
>>>> until I get a new one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> In Switzerland a lot of establishments aren't wired up with chip and pin
>>> terminals, so your card was processed for signature and your thief just
>>> copied your squiggles.
>>
>>When I had cards stolen, before chip and PIN, they didn't even bother to
>>copy my signature. They crudely erased it and put their own version of my
>>name on. However, nobody spotted it, probably because they didn't check
>>the
>>signature at all.
>>
>>Colin Bignell
>>
>
> Something I noticed north of the Equator. Down here
> signature checks are routine by cashiers, checkout staff
> etc. Most are trained to retain the card until the slip
> appears for signature and they don't return it until you've
> signed and they've checked. I found that to be rare in the
> US and Europe.
>
> The routine there was to ignore the card as soon as it had
> been swiped. I can't remember an instance of a clerk or
> cashier even glancing at the signature.
>
> Consequently we took extreme precautions to safeguard our
> cards.
>
> Cheers, Alan, Australia
> --
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
> latest: Epidaurus
> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
Here in the US, lots of stores have electronic signature capture pads. The
signature looks nothing like anything else you sign. No support, wrong
angle, etc.
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:43:07 +0100, "nightjar"
> <nightjar@<insert my surname here>.uk.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Alec" <alexis2525 @ mail.com> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]. ..
>>>
>>> "John Stolz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>I had my credit card stolen in Geneva last week and was surprised that
>>>>the
>>>>thief was able to use it at more than 10 stores without the PIN. I
>>>>thought the pin system was supposed to be unbreakable?
>>>>
>>>> Not my money being stolen, but it is inconvenient being without a card
>>>> until I get a new one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> In Switzerland a lot of establishments aren't wired up with chip and pin
>>> terminals, so your card was processed for signature and your thief just
>>> copied your squiggles.
>>
>>When I had cards stolen, before chip and PIN, they didn't even bother to
>>copy my signature. They crudely erased it and put their own version of my
>>name on. However, nobody spotted it, probably because they didn't check
>>the
>>signature at all.
>>
>>Colin Bignell
>>
>
> Something I noticed north of the Equator. Down here
> signature checks are routine by cashiers, checkout staff
> etc. Most are trained to retain the card until the slip
> appears for signature and they don't return it until you've
> signed and they've checked. I found that to be rare in the
> US and Europe.
>
> The routine there was to ignore the card as soon as it had
> been swiped. I can't remember an instance of a clerk or
> cashier even glancing at the signature.
>
> Consequently we took extreme precautions to safeguard our
> cards.
>
> Cheers, Alan, Australia
> --
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
> latest: Epidaurus
> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
Here in the US, lots of stores have electronic signature capture pads. The
signature looks nothing like anything else you sign. No support, wrong
angle, etc.
Mar 26th 2007, 4:24 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
"Mike O'Sullivan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
>>
>>> I use a trick now. I do not sign my credit cards.
>>
>> Pardon me if the logic of your "trick" escapes me! The purpose of
>> signing your card is for your own protection - to make it difficult for
>> any one else to forge your signature. Although it is possible for the
>> thief to also be an expert forger, it's unlikely. However, if YOU don't
>> sign your credit card, what is to prevent the thief doing so? (In which
>> case his/her signature would agree with the one on the card.)
>
> I think he was being facetious.
Some people do not sign but put a statement to check ID in the box. Most
times the signature on the back is illegible after a short time. Son in
laws ATM / logoed charge card was stolen in Costa Rica. Bad people managed
to charge $1400 in a couple of hours. First charge was a small charge at a
convience store, probably to see if the card was good. They then bought 2
$600 surf boards. Bank covered it.
news:[email protected]...
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
>>
>>> I use a trick now. I do not sign my credit cards.
>>
>> Pardon me if the logic of your "trick" escapes me! The purpose of
>> signing your card is for your own protection - to make it difficult for
>> any one else to forge your signature. Although it is possible for the
>> thief to also be an expert forger, it's unlikely. However, if YOU don't
>> sign your credit card, what is to prevent the thief doing so? (In which
>> case his/her signature would agree with the one on the card.)
>
> I think he was being facetious.
Some people do not sign but put a statement to check ID in the box. Most
times the signature on the back is illegible after a short time. Son in
laws ATM / logoed charge card was stolen in Costa Rica. Bad people managed
to charge $1400 in a couple of hours. First charge was a small charge at a
convience store, probably to see if the card was good. They then bought 2
$600 surf boards. Bank covered it.
Mar 26th 2007, 6:23 pm
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
tile <[email protected]> wrote:
> "John Stolz" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:[email protected]...
> >I had my credit card stolen in Geneva last week and was surprised that the
> >thief was able to use it at more than 10 stores without the PIN. I thought
> >the pin system was supposed to be unbreakable?
> >
> > Not my money being stolen, but it is inconvenient being without a card
> > until I get a new one.
>
> pls note that fraudolent use of credit cards is normal in internet. In
> internet it is not possible to make security checks.
> the person that accepts credit cards is obliged to ask for identification
> documents.
> If this person does not ask for ID then it is her own risk,
>
> I use a trick now. I do not sign my credit cards.
> It will be almost impossible for any thief to make a signature similar to
> mine,
That's a neat trick, I don't think. I stood behind someone in H&M on
Oxford Street, London a while ago, and someone had tried 'your trick.'
(Or just forgot to sign, I don't know.) The shop assistant didn't accept
the card, and refused to accept it even when the person offered to sign
it. This was several years ago, before chip and pin became the norm
here.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> "John Stolz" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:[email protected]...
> >I had my credit card stolen in Geneva last week and was surprised that the
> >thief was able to use it at more than 10 stores without the PIN. I thought
> >the pin system was supposed to be unbreakable?
> >
> > Not my money being stolen, but it is inconvenient being without a card
> > until I get a new one.
>
> pls note that fraudolent use of credit cards is normal in internet. In
> internet it is not possible to make security checks.
> the person that accepts credit cards is obliged to ask for identification
> documents.
> If this person does not ask for ID then it is her own risk,
>
> I use a trick now. I do not sign my credit cards.
> It will be almost impossible for any thief to make a signature similar to
> mine,
That's a neat trick, I don't think. I stood behind someone in H&M on
Oxford Street, London a while ago, and someone had tried 'your trick.'
(Or just forgot to sign, I don't know.) The shop assistant didn't accept
the card, and refused to accept it even when the person offered to sign
it. This was several years ago, before chip and pin became the norm
here.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Mar 26th 2007, 6:38 pm
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:28:01 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
> <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> >The roll-out is happening fairly fast around Europe, but on different
> >timetables in different countries. You got your trip done in time.
>
> Will the system make allowances in any way for foreign
> cards? I can't imagine Visa, Amex and Mastercard letting
> their big-budget customers discover this the hard way; they
> must have some sort of programme in mind to allow their
> non-European customers to travel overseas. So would the
> major retailers relying on tourists.
In the UK, despite the switch-over to chip and pin a while ago, people
can usually still use cards with a signature in shops and restaurants,
particularly in a places like central London, with lots of tourists.
Examples where there will be no leeway for you now is with some
automated machines which are set up to use only chip and pin- such as
the ticket machine I used this morning at the train station...
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:28:01 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
> <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> >The roll-out is happening fairly fast around Europe, but on different
> >timetables in different countries. You got your trip done in time.
>
> Will the system make allowances in any way for foreign
> cards? I can't imagine Visa, Amex and Mastercard letting
> their big-budget customers discover this the hard way; they
> must have some sort of programme in mind to allow their
> non-European customers to travel overseas. So would the
> major retailers relying on tourists.
In the UK, despite the switch-over to chip and pin a while ago, people
can usually still use cards with a signature in shops and restaurants,
particularly in a places like central London, with lots of tourists.
Examples where there will be no leeway for you now is with some
automated machines which are set up to use only chip and pin- such as
the ticket machine I used this morning at the train station...
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Mar 26th 2007, 7:27 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit card fraud
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) wrote:
> Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:28:01 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> []
>>> The roll-out is happening fairly fast around Europe, but on different
>>> timetables in different countries. You got your trip done in time.
>> Will the system make allowances in any way for foreign
>> cards? I can't imagine Visa, Amex and Mastercard letting
>> their big-budget customers discover this the hard way; they
>> must have some sort of programme in mind to allow their
>> non-European customers to travel overseas. So would the
>> major retailers relying on tourists.
>
> In the UK, despite the switch-over to chip and pin a while ago, people
> can usually still use cards with a signature in shops and restaurants,
> particularly in a places like central London, with lots of tourists.
> Examples where there will be no leeway for you now is with some
> automated machines which are set up to use only chip and pin- such as
> the ticket machine I used this morning at the train station...
>
And if you're in France, you won't even get that option in some places.
In France there are lots of 'French cards only' point of sales
machines. These are mostly unattended machines in petrol stations, car
parks etc. 24hr petrol stations almost always have machines of this
type and can only be used by French cardholders (despite the fact that
they normally carry MC/Visa symbology).
The machines in train stations are gradually being replaced - gare de
Lyon in Paris has international machines, but my local TGV station doesn't.
> Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:28:01 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> []
>>> The roll-out is happening fairly fast around Europe, but on different
>>> timetables in different countries. You got your trip done in time.
>> Will the system make allowances in any way for foreign
>> cards? I can't imagine Visa, Amex and Mastercard letting
>> their big-budget customers discover this the hard way; they
>> must have some sort of programme in mind to allow their
>> non-European customers to travel overseas. So would the
>> major retailers relying on tourists.
>
> In the UK, despite the switch-over to chip and pin a while ago, people
> can usually still use cards with a signature in shops and restaurants,
> particularly in a places like central London, with lots of tourists.
> Examples where there will be no leeway for you now is with some
> automated machines which are set up to use only chip and pin- such as
> the ticket machine I used this morning at the train station...
>
And if you're in France, you won't even get that option in some places.
In France there are lots of 'French cards only' point of sales
machines. These are mostly unattended machines in petrol stations, car
parks etc. 24hr petrol stations almost always have machines of this
type and can only be used by French cardholders (despite the fact that
they normally carry MC/Visa symbology).
The machines in train stations are gradually being replaced - gare de
Lyon in Paris has international machines, but my local TGV station doesn't.
