Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

Wed 12 Jan 2005

1:51pm (UK)
Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans

By Joe Churcher, PA Chief Parliamentary Reporter


Prime Minister Tony Blair defended plans to allow pubs to open 24
hours a day * promising to ³come down really hard² on drinkers who
abused the freedom.

He told MPs it would be wrong to deny the majority of people the
relaxed hours enjoyed elsewhere in Europe for the sake violent
binge-drinkers who were a ³tiny minority².

Earlier this week, a judge said easy access to alcohol was breeding
³urban savages² and making town centres into no-go areas.

Judge Charles Harris QC made his remarks while sentencing three young
men for a number of assaults they carried out while drunk and high on
drugs on a night out.

Today it was one of his own MPs who called for a rethink as a national
newspaper began a campaign to have the new opening hours scrapped.

David Winnick (Walsall North) asked Mr Blair at question time: ³There
is already a very serious problem with binge drinking; what sense is
there to allow pubs to be open day and night?²

Mr Blair conceded that there was a problem with binge-drinking and
³fighting outside pubs on a Friday, Saturday sometimes a Thursday and a
Sunday night.

³My view of this is very clear: we should have the same flexibility
that other countries have and then we should come down really hard on
those who abuse that freedom and don¹t show the responsibility.

³The law-abiding majority who want the ability, after going to the
cinema or theatre say, to have a drink at the time they want should not
be inconvenienced, we shouldn¹t have to have restrictions that no other
city in Europe has, just in order to do something for that tiny
minority who abuse alcohol, who go out and fight and cause
disturbances.

³To take away that ability for all the population * even the vast
majority who are law abiding * is not, in my view, sensible.²

Alongside the new opening hours would be greater powers for the police
to shut down premises where violence happened, he pointed out.

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:36:10 -0800, Go Fig wrote:

    > Wed 12 Jan 2005
    >
    > 1:51pm (UK)
    > Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
    >
    > By Joe Churcher, PA Chief Parliamentary Reporter
    >
    >
    > Prime Minister Tony Blair defended plans to allow pubs to open 24
    > hours a day * promising to ³come down really hard² on drinkers who
    > abused the freedom.
    >
    > He told MPs it would be wrong to deny the majority of people the
    > relaxed hours enjoyed elsewhere in Europe for the sake violent
    > binge-drinkers who were a ³tiny minority².
    >
    > Earlier this week, a judge said easy access to alcohol was breeding
    > ³urban savages² and making town centres into no-go areas.
    >
    > Judge Charles Harris QC made his remarks while sentencing three young
    > men for a number of assaults they carried out while drunk and high on
    > drugs on a night out.
    >
    > Today it was one of his own MPs who called for a rethink as a national
    > newspaper began a campaign to have the new opening hours scrapped.
    >
    > David Winnick (Walsall North) asked Mr Blair at question time: ³There
    > is already a very serious problem with binge drinking; what sense is
    > there to allow pubs to be open day and night?²
    >
    > Mr Blair conceded that there was a problem with binge-drinking and
    > ³fighting outside pubs on a Friday, Saturday sometimes a Thursday and a
    > Sunday night.
    >
    > ³My view of this is very clear: we should have the same flexibility
    > that other countries have and then we should come down really hard on
    > those who abuse that freedom and don¹t show the responsibility.
    >
    > ³The law-abiding majority who want the ability, after going to the
    > cinema or theatre say, to have a drink at the time they want should not
    > be inconvenienced, we shouldn¹t have to have restrictions that no other
    > city in Europe has, just in order to do something for that tiny
    > minority who abuse alcohol, who go out and fight and cause
    > disturbances.
    >
    > ³To take away that ability for all the population * even the vast
    > majority who are law abiding * is not, in my view, sensible.²
    >
    > Alongside the new opening hours would be greater powers for the police
    > to shut down premises where violence happened, he pointed out.

I'm for it.
Binge drinking in the UK is IMO directly related to the culture of limited
opening times. That's not to say it won't be abused for a while - until
people get used to being able to drink when they want - it took me years of
living in Germany to stop being pissed by 11 pm.

--
Tim C.

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:54:04 +0100, Tim Challenger
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >I'm for it.
    >Binge drinking in the UK is IMO directly related to the culture of limited
    >opening times. That's not to say it won't be abused for a while - until
    >people get used to being able to drink when they want - it took me years of
    >living in Germany to stop being pissed by 11 pm.

    :-)
--
Martin

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

Tim Challenger wrote:
    > On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:36:10 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
[snip]
    > > Alongside the new opening hours would be greater powers for the
police
    > > to shut down premises where violence happened, he pointed out.
    > I'm for it.
    > Binge drinking in the UK is IMO directly related to the culture of
limited
    > opening times. That's not to say it won't be abused for a while -
until
    > people get used to being able to drink when they want - it took me
years of
    > living in Germany to stop being pissed by 11 pm.
[snip]

A very simple moderation is to allow operation anywhere in
a 24 hour period, but only allow actual operations to be a limited
amount of time in any one day. i.e. you can be open any 16 hour
period in 24 but you have to close for 8 out of every 24 hours.
Makes the drunks get up and move once and a bit.

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

<< Mr Blair conceded that there was a problem with binge-drinking and
³fighting outside pubs on a Friday, Saturday sometimes a Thursday and a
Sunday night.>>

It's a Nordic thing. Similar problems with booze in Norway, Sweden, Finland
and Denmark. They seemed to have tried various remedies and a ban or
restriction on availability seems to be the consensus. It seems to me that
the answer is to repopulate Britain with much better behaved Mediterranean
types. They don't have prototype Vikings descending on their town centres at
weekends trying to recreate the rape and pillaging of bygone days.

Hint, Leeds or Nottingham are good places to see some of it. On the other
hand, Newcastle is the place to party at weekends.

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

On 13 Jan 2005 05:28:44 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

    > Tim Challenger wrote:
    >> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:36:10 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
    > [snip]
    >>> Alongside the new opening hours would be greater powers for the
    > police
    >>> to shut down premises where violence happened, he pointed out.
    >> I'm for it.
    >> Binge drinking in the UK is IMO directly related to the culture of
    > limited
    >> opening times. That's not to say it won't be abused for a while -
    > until
    >> people get used to being able to drink when they want - it took me
    > years of
    >> living in Germany to stop being pissed by 11 pm.
    > [snip]
    >
    > A very simple moderation is to allow operation anywhere in
    > a 24 hour period, but only allow actual operations to be a limited
    > amount of time in any one day. i.e. you can be open any 16 hour
    > period in 24 but you have to close for 8 out of every 24 hours.
    > Makes the drunks get up and move once and a bit.

That's fair enough. In practice I doubt if many pubs'll stay open the full
24 hours anyway. There's only a limited number of customers around at 4:30
am. (speaking from experience ;-) )


--
Tim C.

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

    > A very simple moderation is to allow operation anywhere in
    > a 24 hour period, but only allow actual operations to be a limited
    > amount of time in any one day. i.e. you can be open any 16 hour
    > period in 24 but you have to close for 8 out of every 24 hours.
    > Makes the drunks get up and move once and a bit.

That reminds me of a very long story about a night in Copenhagens walking
street and the important business meeting the next morning :-)

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:05:48 -0500, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >> A very simple moderation is to allow operation anywhere in
    >> a 24 hour period, but only allow actual operations to be a limited
    >> amount of time in any one day. i.e. you can be open any 16 hour
    >> period in 24 but you have to close for 8 out of every 24 hours.
    >> Makes the drunks get up and move once and a bit.
    >That reminds me of a very long story about a night in Copenhagens walking
    >street and the important business meeting the next morning :-)

I can remember a similar headache.

--
Martin

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

Following up to Go Fig

    > Earlier this week, a judge said easy access to alcohol was breeding
    >³urban savages² and making town centres into no-go areas.

Traditionally in Spain there are little or no alcohol laws and
little or no drunkenness.
Italy I think is similar.
In England we have had restrictive laws and some drunkenness.
If the media are to be believed this has got worse recently.
Why do people think licensing laws are the cause of this
behaviour?

I think the answers to teenage binge drinking don't lie in
partial prohibition, that may even be part of the cause.
Go ahead, remove the laws, but stop marketing booze at kids.
I think the "urban savages" are primarily a product of our
culture not alcohol, laws should be about the behaviour that
comes after drinking *from* *some* *people*.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

Following up to Phred Bear

    >It's a Nordic thing. Similar problems with booze in Norway, Sweden, Finland
    >and Denmark. They seemed to have tried various remedies and a ban or
    >restriction on availability seems to be the consensus. It seems to me that
    >the answer is to repopulate Britain with much better behaved Mediterranean
    >types.

Yes, that's one way out, bit drastic of course. Did Scandinavians
ever try eliminating prohibitions?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

Following up to Tim Challenger

    >I'm for it.
    >Binge drinking in the UK is IMO directly related to the culture of limited
    >opening times. That's not to say it won't be abused for a while - until
    >people get used to being able to drink when they want - it took me years of
    >living in Germany to stop being pissed by 11 pm.

absolutely
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:20:16 +0000, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to Go Fig
    >> Earlier this week, a judge said easy access to alcohol was breeding
    >>³urban savages² and making town centres into no-go areas.
    >Traditionally in Spain there are little or no alcohol laws and
    >little or no drunkenness.
    >Italy I think is similar.
    >In England we have had restrictive laws and some drunkenness.
    >If the media are to be believed this has got worse recently.
    >Why do people think licensing laws are the cause of this
    >behaviour?
    >I think the answers to teenage binge drinking don't lie in
    >partial prohibition, that may even be part of the cause.
    >Go ahead, remove the laws, but stop marketing booze at kids.
    >I think the "urban savages" are primarily a product of our
    >culture not alcohol, laws should be about the behaviour that
    >comes after drinking *from* *some* *people*.

According to my two kids drinking 10 pints of 5% alcohol Europiss is
not unusual for students.
--
Martin

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

Following up to nitram

    >>I think the "urban savages" are primarily a product of our
    >>culture not alcohol, laws should be about the behaviour that
    >>comes after drinking *from* *some* *people*.
    >According to my two kids drinking 10 pints of 5% alcohol Europiss is
    >not unusual for students.

but students probably don't go out and cause trouble afterwards,
just shag each other (not your two kids specifically).
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:20:17 +0000, The Reids wrote:

    > Following up to Phred Bear
    >
    >>It's a Nordic thing. Similar problems with booze in Norway, Sweden, Finland
    >>and Denmark. They seemed to have tried various remedies and a ban or
    >>restriction on availability seems to be the consensus. It seems to me that
    >>the answer is to repopulate Britain with much better behaved Mediterranean
    >>types.
    >
    > Yes, that's one way out, bit drastic of course. Did Scandinavians
    > ever try eliminating prohibitions?

a sort of prohibition prohibition?
--
Tim C.

Re: Blair Defends 24-Hour Drinking Plans
 

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:33:12 +0100, Tim Challenger
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:20:17 +0000, The Reids wrote:
    >> Following up to Phred Bear
    >>
    >>>It's a Nordic thing. Similar problems with booze in Norway, Sweden, Finland
    >>>and Denmark. They seemed to have tried various remedies and a ban or
    >>>restriction on availability seems to be the consensus. It seems to me that
    >>>the answer is to repopulate Britain with much better behaved Mediterranean
    >>>types.
    >>
    >> Yes, that's one way out, bit drastic of course. Did Scandinavians
    >> ever try eliminating prohibitions?
    >a sort of prohibition prohibition?

Charging more for a beer than the meal I had with it, certainly
inhibited me in Norway.
--
Martin