Hawth Hill

in article [email protected], Andy Pandy at
[email protected] wrote on 05/23/2004 5:50 PM:

    >
    > "Hawth Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:BCD66A08.3A9DA%[email protected]...
    >>>> As the other poster said, use bank machines as your main money source.
    >>>> Credit cards are also a good idea.
    >>>
    >>> Not for cash though unless you can avoid cash-advance fees.
    >>
    >> However, one way to get around this 'fee' is to simply deposit money into
    >> your credit card account before you leave your own country, in roughly the
    >> amount that you anticipate that you're going to spend on the trip through
    >> ATM withdrawals. Then use your credit card at the ATM machine to withdraw
    >> from the cash that you have on deposit with your credit card company. That
    >> way, there'll be no fees for _either_ cash-advances _or_ for using an ATM
    >> not authorized by your bank.
    >
    > That won't work if you make any purchases before your cash advances - any
    > purchases will gobble up your advance payments too. Also it depends on your
    > credit card rules - some have a cash withdrawal fee which you are charged
    > whether or not you are in credit. In any case you'll get hit with any foreign
    > exchange markup your credit card charges.

Well, of course, I meant that the absence of a 'fee' applies only in
circumstances where one has a "credit balance." Not to be contentious, but
I thought that was obvious and implicit in what I said. If not, I apologize
for any lack of clarity. . . . So, to be absolutely clear, make your deposit
sufficient to cover BOTH any anticipated charges against the account PLUS
any cash withdrawals that you foresee. (OR limit your charges to a separate
credit card, and use the first card only for cash withdrawals.) . . . The
principle to bear in mind is that, so long as you have a credit balance in
the account, there's no charge since there's no "advance" of cash; instead,
you're simply withdrawing what's already yours, just as you do when you
write a check back home. (If you find, as the previous poster noted, that
your card imposes a charge, regardless of whether your account has a credit
balance, I can only suggest that it's possibly time to shop around for a
different credit card.)

As for foreign exchange mark-ups, I found that to be an expensive
proposition when I first came to the U.K. three years ago. After all, our
entire income has to be exchanged from dollars into pounds. So, I invested
some time to learning how to cope with it.

I found that, while one may have to shop around, there _are_ VISA cards that
charge no fee at all for this exchange of currencies. (There may be others
issued by other credit card companies, but I just don't happen to have any
knowledge about that.) I'm not touting any particular cards, but I know
this to be so because I happen, purely by chance, to have two such VISA
cards, and both were issued by financial institutions in the U.S. that are
currently administered by the MBNA group, (though they weren't when I got
the cards, years and years ago).

Additionally, we have a VISA card issued to us by our U.S. investment
brokerage house in 2001, and I have also used it to transfer funds from the
U.S. to our bank here in the U.K., and succeeded in doing so without any
charge at all for the currency conversion. For example, just this past year
we renovated and enlarged our house here, and, in order to pay for the work,
brought in excess of $200,000 over from the U.S. into the U.K. without any
charges whatever. In all, (since we paid for the improvements to our house
in a series of weekly 'staged payments'), there were approximately twenty
'exchanges' involved in bringing over this total. I truly tracked the
exchange rates on a near-hourly basis on all the dates that I made the
various transfers, and I would have instantly recognized it had there been
any fees charged. (Fortunately for us, the great bulk of our transfers were
completed before the dollar declined so drastically against the pound.)

In any event, I don't post any of this to be argumentative. I just thought
that our experiences might be of help to others who'd not yet had occasion
to work through these details. If one disagrees with my statements, of
course, simply ignore them.

HH

Andy Pandy

"Hawth Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BCD6B391.3AA32%[email protected]...
    > >>>> As the other poster said, use bank machines as your main money source.
    > >>>> Credit cards are also a good idea.
    > >>>
    > >>> Not for cash though unless you can avoid cash-advance fees.
    > >>
    > >> However, one way to get around this 'fee' is to simply deposit money into
    > >> your credit card account before you leave your own country, in roughly the
    > >> amount that you anticipate that you're going to spend on the trip through
    > >> ATM withdrawals. Then use your credit card at the ATM machine to withdraw
    > >> from the cash that you have on deposit with your credit card company. That
    > >> way, there'll be no fees for _either_ cash-advances _or_ for using an ATM
    > >> not authorized by your bank.
    > >
    > > That won't work if you make any purchases before your cash advances - any
    > > purchases will gobble up your advance payments too. Also it depends on your
    > > credit card rules - some have a cash withdrawal fee which you are charged
    > > whether or not you are in credit. In any case you'll get hit with any
foreign
    > > exchange markup your credit card charges.
    > Well, of course, I meant that the absence of a 'fee' applies only in
    > circumstances where one has a "credit balance." Not to be contentious, but
    > I thought that was obvious and implicit in what I said.

No. Not to me anyway...

    > If not, I apologize
    > for any lack of clarity. . . . So, to be absolutely clear, make your deposit
    > sufficient to cover BOTH any anticipated charges against the account PLUS
    > any cash withdrawals that you foresee. (OR limit your charges to a separate
    > credit card, and use the first card only for cash withdrawals.) . . . The
    > principle to bear in mind is that, so long as you have a credit balance in
    > the account, there's no charge since there's no "advance" of cash; instead,
    > you're simply withdrawing what's already yours, just as you do when you
    > write a check back home. (If you find, as the previous poster noted, that
    > your card imposes a charge, regardless of whether your account has a credit
    > balance, I can only suggest that it's possibly time to shop around for a
    > different credit card.)

I think most UK cards now refer to a "cash handling fee" rather than a "cash
advance fee" - so they can and will charge you whether your account is in credit
or not. ISTR a case a few years ago when a customer made an issue of being
charged a "cash advance" fee when his account was in credit - so the banks have
simply renamed this fee!

Most also charge interest from the date of the advance (whether or not you pay
your balance in full every month) - of course you'll avoid the interest if your
account is in credit but not usually the "cash handling" charge.

    > As for foreign exchange mark-ups, I found that to be an expensive
    > proposition when I first came to the U.K. three years ago. After all, our
    > entire income has to be exchanged from dollars into pounds. So, I invested
    > some time to learning how to cope with it.
    > I found that, while one may have to shop around, there _are_ VISA cards that
    > charge no fee at all for this exchange of currencies. (There may be others
    > issued by other credit card companies, but I just don't happen to have any
    > knowledge about that.) I'm not touting any particular cards, but I know
    > this to be so because I happen, purely by chance, to have two such VISA
    > cards, and both were issued by financial institutions in the U.S. that are
    > currently administered by the MBNA group, (though they weren't when I got
    > the cards, years and years ago).

There are a few in the UK, Nationwide are the only "high street" one, there are
others such as Liverpool Victoria.

    > In any event, I don't post any of this to be argumentative. I just thought
    > that our experiences might be of help to others who'd not yet had occasion
    > to work through these details. If one disagrees with my statements, of
    > course, simply ignore them.

Why? If I disagree with anything, or have something to add or clarify, I'll say
so, that's the nature of usenet. It's not being argumentative, it's having a
discussion. I'm sure your experience is of use to others, but I think your
experience is of more use to people with US issued cards, rather than UK cards.

--
Andy