Arpad

The mayor of Moscow has ordered the demolition of the Rossiya (Russia)
Hotel, a giant concrete box built beside the Kremlin in Soviet times.

The hotel, the world's biggest when it was built in the late 1960s,
has been reviled for decades both for its ugliness and its resident
cockroaches.

A hotel and shopping complex is expected to appear on the prime site.

It is the latest step in an ambitious plan to rid the Russian capital
of the worst of its Soviet architecture.

The BBC's Steve Rosenberg reports from the city that the Rossiya is
easily one of Moscow's most controversial symbols.

In Soviet times, they used to love building big, he adds, and thus
Russia built the world's tallest TV tower, the world's biggest bust of
Lenin, and, in Moscow, Europe's biggest hotel - which also sadly
turned out to be one of Europe's ugliest.

Vladimir Resin, Mayor Yury Luzhkov's deputy for construction,
described the Rossiya on Tuesday as "a dull, faceless box made of
steel and concrete".

News of the Rossiya's impending destruction comes after the demolition
of two other well-known hotels nearby: the Stalin-era Moskva (Moscow)
and the Inturist (Foreign Tourist), a skyscraper erected in 1970.

But the Rossiya is the most notorious of them all, with a reputation
for bad hygiene and bad looks which many foreign tourists would have
experienced, given its position off Red Square and overlooking the
River Moscow.

In recent years, the hotel has also been a home-from-home for MPs
decamping to parliament in Moscow from across Russia's vast interior.

With its 3,000 rooms, it hogs an area the size of 20 football pitches.

Some film-goers may retain fond memories of the hotel's cinema, the
Zaryadye, but there is little to recommend the featureless box apart
from its "ideal location".

A string of elegant churches and historic buildings perched surreally
along Varvarka Street, alongside the hotel, only emphasise the
Rossiya's incongruity in Moscow's medieval heart.

Mr Resin said the development, expected to go out to tender this year,
would fit in "with the heart of Moscow".

Russian news agencies report that it will probably feature a number of
modern hotels catering for 2,000 guests, as well as offices and shops.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3552520.stm

Vlad 1452

The problem will be that there's *no* cheap hotel in the center of
Moscow now, unless maybe the Minsk, on Tverskaya, that is really
uggly, dirty, more than Soviet :)

The Inturist has been deleted, the Moskva too, both will be replaced
by 5* hotels with rooms not under $300/night.
The Rossiya will probably follow the same way.

It means that now, tourists who don't want to spend $300/night will
have to move to Moscow outskirts (the "famous" Izmailovo maybe ?!) to
sleep, and I am not sure it's a good thing to develop tourism!


On 11 Aug 2004 00:36:14 -0700, [email protected] (Arpad) wrote:

    >The mayor of Moscow has ordered the demolition of the Rossiya (Russia)
    >Hotel, a giant concrete box built beside the Kremlin in Soviet times.

Pete

    > It means that now, tourists who don't want to spend $300/night will
    > have to move to Moscow outskirts (the "famous" Izmailovo maybe
    > ?!) to sleep, and I am not sure it's a good thing to develop tourism!

But isn't this true of all major cities today? You won't find the cheapest
hotel in the city center of cities like New York, Chicago, Vienna, etc.
Usually the best deal is to find a lower priced hotel like an Ibis located
near a metro (or S-Bahn or tram) station. I hope that Ibis opens hotels
in both Moscow and St. Petersburg eventually.


Pete

Gerald Oliver Swift

"Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] link.net...
    > > It means that now, tourists who don't want to spend $300/night will
    > > have to move to Moscow outskirts (the "famous" Izmailovo maybe
    > > ?!) to sleep, and I am not sure it's a good thing to develop tourism!
    > But isn't this true of all major cities today? You won't find the
cheapest
    > hotel in the city center of cities like New York, Chicago, Vienna, etc.
    > Usually the best deal is to find a lower priced hotel like an Ibis located
    > near a metro (or S-Bahn or tram) station. I hope that Ibis opens hotels
    > in both Moscow and St. Petersburg eventually.
    > Pete

I'm sure they will. The holding company, Accor, already have Novotels in
both cities.

Ulf Kutzner

[email protected] schrieb:
    >
    > The problem will be that there's *no* cheap hotel in the center of
    > Moscow now, unless maybe the Minsk, on Tverskaya, that is really
    > uggly, dirty, more than Soviet :)
    >
    > The Inturist has been deleted, the Moskva too, both will be replaced
    > by 5* hotels with rooms not under $300/night.
    > The Rossiya will probably follow the same way.
    >
    > It means that now, tourists who don't want to spend $300/night will
    > have to move to Moscow outskirts

For tonight, I have been offered Dinaoda, *** at 73,28 EUR single room
and hotel President, 130,27 single room, with breakfast included. Both
are nor central nor too far away. Dinaoda offers twin room for the same
money.

    > (the "famous" Izmailovo maybe ?!) to
    > sleep, and I am not sure it's a good thing to develop tourism!

It's still okay as the metro works until 1 a.m.

Regards, ULF

Miguel Cruz

Pete <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> It means that now, tourists who don't want to spend $300/night will
    >> have to move to Moscow outskirts (the "famous" Izmailovo maybe
    >> ?!) to sleep, and I am not sure it's a good thing to develop tourism!
    > But isn't this true of all major cities today? You won't find the cheapest
    > hotel in the city center of cities like New York, Chicago, Vienna, etc.
    > Usually the best deal is to find a lower priced hotel like an Ibis located
    > near a metro (or S-Bahn or tram) station. I hope that Ibis opens hotels
    > in both Moscow and St. Petersburg eventually.

I cant think of any major cities where you have to spend $300/night to stay
in the center. Then again I doubt that's strictly true in Moscow either.

Normally there are lots of decent, cheap little hotels but they don't
advertise much and can't be booked online so they're harder to find out
about.

And in Amsterdam, for one, the Ibis is smack dab at the main train station.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Vlad 1452

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:42:30 +0200, Ulf Kutzner
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > For tonight, I have been offered Dinaoda, *** at 73,28 EUR single room
    > and hotel President, 130,27 single room, with breakfast included. Both
    > are nor central nor too far away. Dinaoda offers twin room for the same
    > money.

Wher's the Dinaoda ? $130 is pricy if you plan to stay more than one
week - a small time to visit Moscow.

The President is not bad, yes, just near the park with all the statues
that have been took out in 1991 ! Visit it!

There's a good option at the Varshava, Kalushkaya Ploshad, renovated
at $70/n, and of course the Ukrain, about $70 in a Stalin tower :)

    >> (the "famous" Izmailovo maybe ?!) to
    >> sleep, and I am not sure it's a good thing to develop tourism!

    > It's still okay as the metro works until 1 a.m.

Sure, but most tourists prefer the center!

Just read that the Misnk will be renovated too, in October!

Oh, if you're a real tourist (LOL), don't avoid the YAR review on
Leningradski Prospekt :)

Vlad 1452

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:33:41 GMT, Miguel Cruz <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Pete <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> It means that now, tourists who don't want to spend $300/night will
    >>> have to move to Moscow outskirts (the "famous" Izmailovo maybe
    >>> ?!) to sleep, and I am not sure it's a good thing to develop tourism!
    >> But isn't this true of all major cities today? You won't find the cheapest
    >> hotel in the city center of cities like New York, Chicago, Vienna, etc.
    >> Usually the best deal is to find a lower priced hotel like an Ibis located
    >> near a metro (or S-Bahn or tram) station. I hope that Ibis opens hotels
    >> in both Moscow and St. Petersburg eventually.
    >I cant think of any major cities where you have to spend $300/night to stay
    >in the center. Then again I doubt that's strictly true in Moscow either.
    >Normally there are lots of decent, cheap little hotels but they don't
    >advertise much and can't be booked online so they're harder to find out
    >about.


There are, not right in the center, but ... The prblem is that
tourists in Moscow don't come on their own. They generally buy a
package in their country, and there, the agencies haven't the good
contacts to find good/cheap hotels.

Moreover, it's a fact that a lot of foreigners (all ?!) don't speak
one word of Russian, and so are completely dependant of the agencies,
that charge a lot for quite nothing. I met an American some days ago
who was charged $120/night by his NYC agency, for sleeping in the
Kosmos! He told me that his agency promised that the K was "in the
center" !

Kosmos is a big hotel, rooms there cost $65/$80, at the metro VDNX,
not really in the center!

    >And in Amsterdam, for one, the Ibis is smack dab at the main train station.

And rooms in the Red Area ? :) How much ?!

Jesper Lauridsen

On 2004-08-11, Pete <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> It means that now, tourists who don't want to spend $300/night will
    >> have to move to Moscow outskirts (the "famous" Izmailovo maybe
    >> ?!) to sleep, and I am not sure it's a good thing to develop tourism!
    > But isn't this true of all major cities today? You won't find the cheapest
    > hotel in the city center of cities like New York, Chicago, Vienna, etc.

I don't know about the others, but it's not difficult to find reasonably
priced hotels in the center of Vienna.

Bjorn Olsson

[email protected] (Arpad) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > The mayor of Moscow has ordered the demolition of the Rossiya (Russia)
    > Hotel, a giant concrete box built beside the Kremlin in Soviet times.
    >
    > The hotel, the world's biggest when it was built in the late 1960s,
    > has been reviled for decades both for its ugliness and its resident
    > cockroaches.

Excaggarations. Stayed there twice, didn't see any cockroaches. Yes,
it's a plain boring concrete building, but it's no uglier than your
average Hilton.

    > A hotel and shopping complex is expected to appear on the prime site.

Aah.. A beautiful new shopping complex! Yeah, that'll fit in *much*
better with the surrounding old churches and other historic
buildings..

    > It is the latest step in an ambitious plan to rid the Russian capital
    > of the worst of its Soviet architecture.

Those politicians..

    > The BBC's Steve Rosenberg reports from the city that the Rossiya is
    > easily one of Moscow's most controversial symbols.
    >
    > In Soviet times, they used to love building big, he adds, and thus
    > Russia built the world's tallest TV tower, the world's biggest bust of
    > Lenin, and, in Moscow, Europe's biggest hotel - which also sadly
    > turned out to be one of Europe's ugliest.
    > Vladimir Resin, Mayor Yury Luzhkov's deputy for construction,
    > described the Rossiya on Tuesday as "a dull, faceless box made of
    > steel and concrete".

I don't know how many Hiltons (etc) I've stayed in that fit that
description exactly.

    > News of the Rossiya's impending destruction comes after the demolition
    > of two other well-known hotels nearby: the Stalin-era Moskva (Moscow)
    > and the Inturist (Foreign Tourist), a skyscraper erected in 1970.
    >
    > But the Rossiya is the most notorious of them all, with a reputation
    > for bad hygiene

Anyone understand what "bad hygiene" has to do with having to knock
the building down? If the hygiene is bad, all you need to do is
improve the hygiene, no?

    > and bad looks which many foreign tourists would have
    > experienced, given its position off Red Square and overlooking the
    > River Moscow.
    >
    > In recent years, the hotel has also been a home-from-home for MPs
    > decamping to parliament in Moscow from across Russia's vast interior.
    >
    > With its 3,000 rooms, it hogs an area the size of 20 football pitches.
    >
    > Some film-goers may retain fond memories of the hotel's cinema, the
    > Zaryadye, but there is little to recommend the featureless box apart
    > from its "ideal location".
    >
    > A string of elegant churches and historic buildings perched surreally
    > along Varvarka Street, alongside the hotel, only emphasise the
    > Rossiya's incongruity in Moscow's medieval heart.

And the planned new shopping-mall will be congruent with the elegant
churches and historic buildings?

    > Mr Resin said the development, expected to go out to tender this year,
    > would fit in "with the heart of Moscow".
    >
    > Russian news agencies report that it will probably feature a number of
    > modern hotels catering for 2,000 guests, as well as offices and shops.
    >
    > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3552520.stm

Oh well.

Bjorn

Pete

    > Kosmos is a big hotel, rooms there cost $65/$80, at the metro
    > VDNX, not really in the center!

Sorry, you are confusing the rates for Russians versus foreigners with
your original idea. Maybe a native Russian speaker can obtain the
$65/80 rates, but non-native Russian speakers are restricted to the
services like all-hotels.ru which advertise rates starting at $92, and I
doubt if this rate includes visa support from the hotel.

And let us compare apples with apples. That $92 rate is for a room
with a wretched Russian twin bed. If you want a room with a larger
bed, you must pay $145 for a "Cosmos Club (double occupancy)"
or $155 for a "Semi-Suite comfortable". Ibis hotels offer either two
twin beds or one double bed for their regular low price. I stayed at
the Kosmos and when I asked for a large bed they gave me a room
with two twin beds in it (not nearly the same) for a higher price. I
guess the Kosmos figures that the zillions of hookers in the hotel bars
make up for all that.

    > >And in Amsterdam, for one, the Ibis is smack dab at the main train
station.

That Ibis has rates starting at 110 Euros, which is the same rate you
can find elsewhere in Amsterdam. Ibis hotels in Munich, Vienna, Berlin,
and other cities have rates around 70 Euros, as they are cheaper cities
to visit. Amsterdam is an expensive city to visit, period.

Now if you would have mentioned Munich, you might have had a point.
The Ibis hotel is a short walk from the train station and only costs 70
Euros for a room with a double bed.


Pete

Pete

    > > But isn't this true of all major cities today? You won't find the
cheapest
    > > hotel in the city center of cities like New York, Chicago, Vienna, etc.
    > I don't know about the others, but it's not difficult to find reasonably
    > priced hotels in the center of Vienna.

I guess that depends on your definition of reasonably priced. In my
opinion, those hotels are NOT in the city center, but lie around the
Westbahnhof (Ibis and Fuerstenhof hotels) and other areas outside
the city center.


Pete

The Black Monk

[email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > [email protected] (Arpad) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > > The mayor of Moscow has ordered the demolition of the Rossiya (Russia)
    > > Hotel, a giant concrete box built beside the Kremlin in Soviet times.
    > >
    > > The hotel, the world's biggest when it was built in the late 1960s,
    > > has been reviled for decades both for its ugliness and its resident
    > > cockroaches.
    >
    > Excaggarations. Stayed there twice, didn't see any cockroaches. Yes,
    > it's a plain boring concrete building, but it's no uglier than your
    > average Hilton.

Good thing they're not building a Hilton there, then.

    > > A hotel and shopping complex is expected to appear on the prime site.
    >
    > Aah.. A beautiful new shopping complex! Yeah, that'll fit in *much*
    > better with the surrounding old churches and other historic
    > buildings..

I'm sure the new shopping complex will be built in such a way that
complements the older buildings nearby (I just hope this project won't
involve any massive sculpures by a certain Georgian). The Rossiya,
massive ugly monster that it is, could not be any more incongruent
with its surroundings. They've torn down a lot of old, beautiful
buildings in Moscow recently. Finally they're getting rid of an
eyesore.

BM

Miguel Cruz

Pete <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> And in Amsterdam, for one, the Ibis is smack dab at the main train
    >>> station.
    > That Ibis has rates starting at 110 Euros, which is the same rate you
    > can find elsewhere in Amsterdam. Ibis hotels in Munich, Vienna, Berlin,
    > and other cities have rates around 70 Euros, as they are cheaper cities
    > to visit. Amsterdam is an expensive city to visit, period.

Amsterdam's not so bad (can't compare to Madrid and Lisbon though). More
food bargains than most, and plenty of inexpensive hotels if you put a
little effort into it.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Ulf Kutzner

[email protected] schrieb:
    >
    > On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:42:30 +0200, Ulf Kutzner
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > For tonight, I have been offered Dinaoda, *** at 73,28 EUR single room
    > > and hotel President, 130,27 single room, with breakfast included. Both
    > > are nor central nor too far away. Dinaoda offers twin room for the same
    > > money.
    >
    > Wher's the Dinaoda ?

Near VDNKh.
http://www.visitmoscow.com/new_page_13.htm

    > $130 is pricy if you plan to stay more than one
    > week - a small time to visit Moscow.

Dinaoda is cheaper.

    > The President is not bad, yes, just near the park with all the statues
    > that have been took out in 1991 ! Visit it!
    >
    > There's a good option at the Varshava, Kalushkaya Ploshad, renovated
    > at $70/n, and of course the Ukrain, about $70 in a Stalin tower :)

I see.

    > >> (the "famous" Izmailovo maybe ?!) to
    > >> sleep, and I am not sure it's a good thing to develop tourism!
    >
    > > It's still okay as the metro works until 1 a.m.
    >
    > Sure, but most tourists prefer the center!

Okay but if you want to stay there for a week you must agree to spend a
lot of money.

    > Just read that the Misnk will be renovated too, in October!

faz.de wrote today there is no more hotel Minsk in Moscow. True?

<http://www.moskauer-deutsche-zeitung.ru/Leben_in_Moskau/2003/06/19/11.33.17.htm>
says they will tear it down in autumn in order to replace it.

    > Oh, if you're a real tourist (LOL), don't avoid the YAR review on
    > Leningradski Prospekt :)

What is this?

Regards, ULF