Gerrit 'T Hart

"PandA" <Don'[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
    > Actually the car was looking like a better option cost wise, and renting
was
    > looking better than leasing.
    > The Eurail pass is about AUD1500 per person for 30 days consecutive =
    > AUD3000
    > Leasing a car was AUD1400 + AUD30 per day above 17 days + say AUD800??
fuel
    > = AUD2590
    > Renting a car for 30 days AUD55 per day + AUD800 fuel = AUD2450
    > But as has been stated many times above, the convenience of rail has to be
    > worth the extra cost (and depending on the fuel consumption/cost + tolls +
    > parking fees, the cost is less unknown).
    > Also I think I am a bit paranoid driving now with all the stories of Roman
    > and French drivers :-)
    > Andrew.

Have you checked out the cost of insurance on the rented car and how large
the excess is?
With the leased car the insurance is included with NO excess!
Just thought I'd ask. :-)

BTW don't get paranoid about European drivers. I've never had a problem. And
just remember: no one is out to have a prang with you!

Gerrit

Bigbrian

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:40:14 +1100, "Deep Freud Moors"
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaVALIDiREALLY!l.nu> wrote:

    >Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> "PandA" <Don'[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >> > As I am 27 and my wife is 26 I think we have to get a 1st class ticket
    >for
    >> > this trip.
    >> Why? I am 42 and travel all the time in second class. Comfortable enough
    >and
    >> the people in 2nd class are much more fun: young backpackers instead of
    >> business types.
    >Ummm... didn't you say you were 37?
    >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=37...4all.nl&rnum=3
    >---

He probably was in April 1999

Brian

Gerrit 'T Hart

"PandA" <Don'[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Sjoerd,
    > According to the price list I have (from railplus) you need to be <26
    > (youth) to get a 2nd class Eurail pass, they only seem to offer 1st class
if
    > your over 26. I believe you can get any class at any age for individual
    > fares though...
    > Seems a bit ageist to me....
    > Andrew.

Talking about ageism! The youth hostels in Bavaria do not allow you to stay
there if you are over 26!

Gerrit

Deep Freud Moors

bigbrian <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:40:14 +1100, "Deep Freud Moors"
    > <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaVALIDiREALLY!l.nu> wrote:
    > >Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >>
    > >> "PandA" <Don'[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > >> news:[email protected]...
    > >> > As I am 27 and my wife is 26 I think we have to get a 1st class
ticket
    > >for
    > >> > this trip.
    > >>
    > >> Why? I am 42 and travel all the time in second class. Comfortable
enough
    > >and
    > >> the people in 2nd class are much more fun: young backpackers instead of
    > >> business types.
    > >
    > >Ummm... didn't you say you were 37?
    > >
    > >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=37...4all.nl&rnum=3
    > >---
    > He probably was in April 1999

How did I miss that one???
---
DFM

Reid

Following up to bigbrian

    >The traffic around the Arc de Triomphe is one memorable example :-)

best fun in Paris :-) My impression of Italy is that nobody gives
way to anybody!
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking & photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Bigbrian

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 23:30:09 +1100, "Deep Freud Moors"
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaVALIDiREALLY!l.nu> wrote:

    >bigbrian <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:40:14 +1100, "Deep Freud Moors"
    >> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaVALIDiREALLY!l.nu> wrote:
    >> >Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> >news:[email protected]...
    >> >>
    >> >> "PandA" <Don'[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    >> >> news:[email protected]...
    >> >> > As I am 27 and my wife is 26 I think we have to get a 1st class
    >ticket
    >> >for
    >> >> > this trip.
    >> >>
    >> >> Why? I am 42 and travel all the time in second class. Comfortable
    >enough
    >> >and
    >> >> the people in 2nd class are much more fun: young backpackers instead of
    >> >> business types.
    >> >
    >> >Ummm... didn't you say you were 37?
    >> >
    >> >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=37...4all.nl&rnum=3
    >> >---
    >> He probably was in April 1999
    >How did I miss that one???

Couldn't possibly comment :-)

Brian

Bjorn Olsson

"Deep Freud Moors" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaVALIDiREALLY!l.nu> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "PandA" <Don'[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > As I am 27 and my wife is 26 I think we have to get a 1st class ticket
    > for
    > > > this trip.
    > >
    > > Why? I am 42 and travel all the time in second class. Comfortable enough
    > and
    > > the people in 2nd class are much more fun: young backpackers instead of
    > > business types.
    >
    > Ummm... didn't you say you were 37?
    >
    > http://www.google.com/groups?selm=37...4all.nl&rnum=3

Didn't he say that in 1999?

Bjorn

Sjoerd

"Deep Freud Moors" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaVALIDiREALLY!l.nu> schreef in
bericht news:[email protected]...
    > Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "PandA" <Don'[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > As I am 27 and my wife is 26 I think we have to get a 1st class ticket
    > for
    > > > this trip.
    > >
    > > Why? I am 42 and travel all the time in second class. Comfortable enough
    > and
    > > the people in 2nd class are much more fun: young backpackers instead of
    > > business types.
    > Ummm... didn't you say you were 37?
    > http://www.google.com/groups?selm=37...4all.nl&rnum=3
    > ---

As others have said, I wrote that I was 37 in April 1999. So you now know
that I was born between April and November 1961. :-)

Sjoerd

Tim Vanhoof

PandA <Don'[email protected]> wrote:

    > I know this is going to be a bit of a whirl wind tour but we want to see as
    > much of the sights as possible as we probably won't be getting back to
    > Europe for quite a while.

With this itinerary you are mostly going to see motorways, motorway
service areas and hotel rooms. Is that what you want your memories of
Europe to be?

Deep Freud Moors

Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Deep Freud Moors" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaVALIDiREALLY!l.nu> schreef in
    > bericht news:[email protected]...
    > > Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "PandA" <Don'[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > As I am 27 and my wife is 26 I think we have to get a 1st class
ticket
    > > for
    > > > > this trip.
    > > >
    > > > Why? I am 42 and travel all the time in second class. Comfortable
enough
    > > and
    > > > the people in 2nd class are much more fun: young backpackers instead
of
    > > > business types.
    > >
    > > Ummm... didn't you say you were 37?
    > >
    > > http://www.google.com/groups?selm=37...4all.nl&rnum=3
    > > ---
    > >
    > As others have said, I wrote that I was 37 in April 1999. So you now know
    > that I was born between April and November 1961. :-)

Well, technically I was correct in saying that you WERE 37. )

(yes, I know, I am being an idiot, made a mistake, deserve scorn, blah blah
blah...)
---
DFM

Martin Stock

"Andrew Hill" <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
    > Ok,
    > Having given your suggestions some thought I have revised the plan to use
    > the train instead. Probably get a Eurailpass or Eurail select pass (not
    > sure which will be best for us)

Like other I also would vote for the train. As you are mainly visit big
cities a car is not really that useful. If I travel e.g. to Frankfurt or
Munich (not speaking of Paris and Rome) I use the train and park my car at
my local railway station.

For checking train connections you can use the DB timetable which covers
nearly all trains in Europe
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/english.html

In Germany you can use this timetable to check connections by all means of
public transport to virtually every milk can in the country (if you just
know the closest public transport stop or the address of it).

    > As mentioned previously we will probably be flying into London then
getting
    > to Paris to start out European trip.
    > So how about:
    > Day 1 London to Paris (Ferry/rail?) (is it best to look about Paris at
    > the start or end of the trip, probably doesn't make any difference.)
    > Day 2 Train from Paris to Brussels Stay in Brussels 2 nights
As others already wrote use the direct trains to Brussels.

    > Day 4 Train from Brussels to Frankfurt
    > Day 5 Bus from Frankfurt to Munich via romantic road (Have seen the
    > romantic road tour on a travel TV show, thought that it is a must do)
    > overnight at Hohenschwangau
Brussels to Frankfurt
Train are via Cologne and in most cases you have to change trains there
anyway. Don't miss the opportunity for a 1 or 2 hours stop and visit the
cathedral which is directly next to the main railway station.
http://www.koeln.de/portrait/e/lifestyle.html
Cologne cathedral is Germany's most visited building, was once for a short
time even the highest in the world and is truly amazing. And an UNESCO world
heritage site.
From Cologne to Frankfurt you have two possibilities
a) the fast highspeed line with speeds of up to 300 kph
b) the old route along the river Rhine (which is in this part also a UNESCO
world heritage and the birthplace of modern tourism).
http://www.rheinromantik-2002.de/
You can also use one of the KD boats - they are included with an Eurail
pass.
http://www.k-d.com
But beware, boats - esp. upstream - ar slow.
I would not recommend to stay in Frankurt. Either stay at some of the cute
little towns along the Rhine or travel onward to Würzburg or Rothenburg ob
der Tauber.
I would also vote against the Romantic Road bus. If you just travel along
the Romantic Road by bus in one day you'll barely see anything. The bus
connects the places along the Romantic Road which cannot all be reached by
train. But it's just a means of transport, hence if you have a few days for
the Romantic Road you can use the bus to reach your next stop. To drive the
whole road in one day is anything but romantic. Better to visit a few places
instead of just driving through a few more.

Würzburg is the start of the Romantic Road. Main sight is the Residence
(also an UNESCO world heritage)
http://www.schloesser.bayern.de/engl...kte/wu_res.htm
Rothenburg is the most visited town along the Romantic Road.
http://www.rothenburg.de/index.php?get=121
From Rothenburg I would travel onward to Munich and do Neuschwanstein as a
day trip.
http://www.neuschwanstein.de
There are plenty of tour bus offers in Munich to Neuschwanstein (plus
Linderhof - another King Ludwig II castle) or by public transport.
In this case it makes no sense to waste a pass day from your rail pass. You
can use e.g. the Bavaria-Ticket for EUR 21,- for this trip. This ticket
gives unlimited travel on local trains 2nd class in whole Bavaria on a
weekday (Mo-Fr) past 9am for up to 5 people travelling together. Unlike
normal train tickets or rail passes the Bavaria-Ticket is valid in Munich
for all public transport (U-Bahn, trams, buses) not just local trains
(S-Bahn, RB, RE, IRE).

As a couple you are travelling in Munich also better on a mini group day
ticket (EUR 8,-) than on two single day tickets (EUR 4,50).

    > Day 6 Continue to Munich, stay 3 nights
    > Day 9 Train from Munich to Vienna, stay 3 nights
    > Day 12 Train Vienna to Venice, stay 3 nights
    > Day 15 Train Venice to Florence (do day trip to Pisa), stay 3 nights
    > Day 18 Train Florence to Rome, stay 4 nights
    > Day 22 Train Rome to Nice, stay 3 nights
    > Day 25 Train Nice to Barcelona, stay 2 nights
    > Day 27 Train Barcelona to Paris, stay 4 nights
    > Day 31 Paris to London
    > 31 days is a little longer than I wanted, have I chosen to stay in some
    > places longer than we need to to see the main sights, or have I
    > underestimated how long to stay in some.
    > (I am trying to consider how long a coach tour stays in some of these
    > places, the longest they stay is 2 nights i.e. 1 day to look around)
    > Thanks for all of your suggestions, for me they are invaluable!
    > Andrew.
    > P.S. my email if you would need to contact me off the NG is
    > panda[at]pronamics[dot]com[dot]au (replace [at] with @ and [dot] with .)
I
    > was getting inundated with those damn MS update viruses from putting my
real
    > email on NG posts..

Jesper Lauridsen

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:44:06 GMT, "PandA" <Don'[email protected]> wrote:

    >Both of us tend to prefer interesting scenery, history, architecture etc to
    >the hustle and bustle of the big cities, however we can go to Europe without
    >seeing the major sights..

Funny, because big cities are all you're going to see, according to your
itinerary.

    >How easy is it to cover long distances quickly generally in Europe? (I know
    >here I can cover 7-800km per day fairly comfortably)

You can average 100km/hour if you use motorways and are fully focused on
reaching your destination (i.e. no sidetrips or scenic roads). Don't just
judge distances by glancing at a map, use one of the many route planning
sites to get the actual distance. Add an hour at each end to get in/out of
the cities.

Jesper Lauridsen

PLEASE give some kind of indication of what you wrote and what was
written by others (any by who!).

On 4 Nov 2003 20:13:12 -0800, [email protected] (Edmund Lewis) wrote:

    >(don't drive into Amsterdam: cyclists who can do what
    >they please, canals without safety barriers-I think something like 10
    >people a week drive into them,

If you need a safery barrier to keep from driving into a canal, then
perhaps you should consider to stop driving for good.