Mimi

"Norman Perlmutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Instead of Rome, consider going further south to Sorrento and
    > exploring the surrounding Amalfi Coast area. It is less hustle and
    > bustle than Rome, and has plenty of great history and scenery. I
    > especially recommend the ruins at Pompeii

Telling somebody who wants to see the highlights of Europe to skip Rome!

Marianne

Panda

Wow.

Tonnes of great stuff here!! Thanks

I wasn't aware that I could go direct from London to Brussels that will at
least save some time and should mean another night in Paris at the end.
I have been consulting the www.railplus.com.au web site for the rail routes
which uses the Swiss Federal Railways timetable web site
http://www.sbb.ch/pv/index_e.htm

Are these the best to be using? The Swiss timetable is certainly not easy
to use and does not contain information on many southern cities (Pisa, Nice
to Barcelona etc) Maybe I just don't know the local language variants for
these towns.

Also what are the pitfalls of train travel?

I have read that there is a reservation fee on top of the Eurail pass cost
for each journey booked but can't find how much these booking fees are.
Also there are upgrade fees for fast trains or upgraded seats.

As I am 27 and my wife is 26 I think we have to get a 1st class ticket for
this trip. How 1st class is 1st class? Just bigger seats, or something
extra like cabins or sleeping berths? I suppose there is something above 1st
class like "superior 1st class"??

I have only ever done 1 long haul train trip (and loved it). It was a 24hr
1400km trip in an economy sleeper cabin. The sleeper cabin was a shared 3
berth with bunk beds a basin but no WC facilities. In 1st class you had the
choice of a single berth with private facilities or a twin berth with
private facilities if there were 2 of you. The train also had economy seats
(bit bigger and nicer than aircraft seats but not much) wouldn't have liked
to have sat in these for 24 hours, thou in the train you were free to wander
to the club cars/dining cars etc.

We will look at re-gigging the durations spent in each locale.

Thanks

Andrew.

"Andrew Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Ok,
    > Having given your suggestions some thought I have revised the plan to use
    > the train instead. Probably get a Eurailpass or Eurail select pass (not
    > sure which will be best for us)
    > As mentioned previously we will probably be flying into London then
getting
    > to Paris to start out European trip.
    > So how about:
    > Day 1 London to Paris (Ferry/rail?) (is it best to look about Paris at
    > the start or end of the trip, probably doesn't make any difference.)
    > Day 2 Train from Paris to Brussels Stay in Brussels 2 nights
    > Day 4 Train from Brussels to Frankfurt
    > Day 5 Bus from Frankfurt to Munich via romantic road (Have seen the
    > romantic road tour on a travel TV show, thought that it is a must do)
    > overnight at Hohenschwangau
    > Day 6 Continue to Munich, stay 3 nights
    > Day 9 Train from Munich to Vienna, stay 3 nights
    > Day 12 Train Vienna to Venice, stay 3 nights
    > Day 15 Train Venice to Florence (do day trip to Pisa), stay 3 nights
    > Day 18 Train Florence to Rome, stay 4 nights
    > Day 22 Train Rome to Nice, stay 3 nights
    > Day 25 Train Nice to Barcelona, stay 2 nights
    > Day 27 Train Barcelona to Paris, stay 4 nights
    > Day 31 Paris to London
    > 31 days is a little longer than I wanted, have I chosen to stay in some
    > places longer than we need to to see the main sights, or have I
    > underestimated how long to stay in some.
    > (I am trying to consider how long a coach tour stays in some of these
    > places, the longest they stay is 2 nights i.e. 1 day to look around)
    > Thanks for all of your suggestions, for me they are invaluable!
    > Andrew.
    > P.S. my email if you would need to contact me off the NG is
    > panda[at]pronamics[dot]com[dot]au (replace [at] with @ and [dot] with .)
I
    > was getting inundated with those damn MS update viruses from putting my
real
    > email on NG posts..

Sjoerd

"Edmund Lewis" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > There's really no need to
    > rent cars to see the Low Countries cities, trains there are frequent
    > and reliable (don't drive into Amsterdam: cyclists who can do what
    > they please, canals without safety barriers-I think something like 10
    > people a week drive into them,

No, far fewer than that. Most canals *do* have safety barriers. Maybe 10 a
year are drunk and drive into a canal.

Sjoerd

Sjoerd

"PandA" <Don'[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > As I am 27 and my wife is 26 I think we have to get a 1st class ticket for
    > this trip.

Why? I am 42 and travel all the time in second class. Comfortable enough and
the people in 2nd class are much more fun: young backpackers instead of
business types.

Sjoerd

Panda

Sjoerd,

According to the price list I have (from railplus) you need to be <26
(youth) to get a 2nd class Eurail pass, they only seem to offer 1st class if
your over 26. I believe you can get any class at any age for individual
fares though...

Seems a bit ageist to me....

Andrew.

"Sjoerd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "PandA" <Don'[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > As I am 27 and my wife is 26 I think we have to get a 1st class ticket
for
    > > this trip.
    > Why? I am 42 and travel all the time in second class. Comfortable enough
and
    > the people in 2nd class are much more fun: young backpackers instead of
    > business types.
    > Sjoerd

Panda

So you think that 2 nights in Munich and 2 in Nice would be enough? I
haven't really looked up my Lonely Planet & Rough Guides to see what there
is to see in these two locales yet.

I would like to have a rough idea of an itinerary just so I can budget (and
decide) which Eurail pass to look at and how much time I will have available
for the UK/Ireland leg of the trip.

Andrew.

"Phil" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Andrew Hill wrote:
    > > Ok,
    > >
    > > Having given your suggestions some thought I have revised the plan to
use
    > > the train instead. Probably get a Eurailpass or Eurail select pass (not
    > > sure which will be best for us)
    > >
    > > As mentioned previously we will probably be flying into London then
getting
    > > to Paris to start out European trip.
    > >
    > > So how about:
    > >
    > > Day 1 London to Paris (Ferry/rail?) (is it best to look about Paris
at
    > > the start or end of the trip, probably doesn't make any difference.)
    > > Day 2 Train from Paris to Brussels Stay in Brussels 2 nights
    > > Day 4 Train from Brussels to Frankfurt
    > > Day 5 Bus from Frankfurt to Munich via romantic road (Have seen the
    > > romantic road tour on a travel TV show, thought that it is a must do)
    > > overnight at Hohenschwangau
    > > Day 6 Continue to Munich, stay 3 nights
    > > Day 9 Train from Munich to Vienna, stay 3 nights
    > > Day 12 Train Vienna to Venice, stay 3 nights
    > > Day 15 Train Venice to Florence (do day trip to Pisa), stay 3 nights
    > > Day 18 Train Florence to Rome, stay 4 nights
    > > Day 22 Train Rome to Nice, stay 3 nights
    > > Day 25 Train Nice to Barcelona, stay 2 nights
    > > Day 27 Train Barcelona to Paris, stay 4 nights
    > > Day 31 Paris to London
    > As your going to spend 4 nights in Paris at the end why not take the
    > Eurostar to Brussels on day 1?
    > Personally I would put Amsterdam back on the list, maybe loosing some
    > time in Munich or Nice.

Panda

Actually the car was looking like a better option cost wise, and renting was
looking better than leasing.

The Eurail pass is about AUD1500 per person for 30 days consecutive =
AUD3000
Leasing a car was AUD1400 + AUD30 per day above 17 days + say AUD800?? fuel
= AUD2590
Renting a car for 30 days AUD55 per day + AUD800 fuel = AUD2450

But as has been stated many times above, the convenience of rail has to be
worth the extra cost (and depending on the fuel consumption/cost + tolls +
parking fees, the cost is less unknown).

Also I think I am a bit paranoid driving now with all the stories of Roman
and French drivers :-)

Andrew.

"Michael Brennan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <6JRpb.79391$ao4.223521@attbi_s51>, mimi <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >"Andrew Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >> Ok,
    > >>
    > >> Having given your suggestions some thought I have revised the plan to
use
    > >> the train instead. Probably get a Eurailpass or Eurail select pass
(not
    > >> sure which will be best for us)
    > >>
    > >> As mentioned previously we will probably be flying into London then
    > >getting
    > >> to Paris to start out European trip.
    > >>
    > >> So how about:
    > >>
    > >> Day 1 London to Paris (Ferry/rail?) (is it best to look about Paris
at
    > >> the start or end of the trip, probably doesn't make any difference.)
    > >> Day 2 Train from Paris to Brussels Stay in Brussels 2 nights
    > >
    > >This generally looks a lot more sane than your first itinerary. However,
you
    > >can take the Eurostar from London to Brussels direct instead of going by
way
    > >of Paris. That saves you a day.
    > >
    > >> Day 4 Train from Brussels to Frankfurt
    > >> Day 5 Bus from Frankfurt to Munich via romantic road (Have seen the
    > >> romantic road tour on a travel TV show, thought that it is a must do)
    > >> overnight at Hohenschwangau
    > >> Day 6 Continue to Munich, stay 3 nights
    > >> Day 9 Train from Munich to Vienna, stay 3 nights
    > >> Day 12 Train Vienna to Venice, stay 3 nights
    > >> Day 15 Train Venice to Florence (do day trip to Pisa), stay 3 nights
    > >> Day 18 Train Florence to Rome, stay 4 nights
    > >
    > >Consider staying a little longer in Florence. The trip to Pisa will take
a
    > >day.
    > >
    > >> Day 22 Train Rome to Nice, stay 3 nights
    > >> Day 25 Train Nice to Barcelona, stay 2 nights
    > >> Day 27 Train Barcelona to Paris, stay 4 nights
    > >> Day 31 Paris to London
    > >>
    > >> 31 days is a little longer than I wanted, have I chosen to stay in some
    > >> places longer than we need to to see the main sights, or have I
    > >> underestimated how long to stay in some.
    > >> (I am trying to consider how long a coach tour stays in some of these
    > >> places, the longest they stay is 2 nights i.e. 1 day to look around)
    > >
    > >The only other suggestion I might make is to put in a rest stop somewhere
in
    > >the middle at some laid-back location. Take some deep breaths, wash your
    > >clothes.
    > >
    > >Marianne
    > >
    > >
    > Not sure of your budget, but a train pass got to be more economical than
    > driving a car. If you are doing the big city tour, as others have said
take
    > the train.
    > I had some friends on graduation from medical school, did a European trip
    > for 5 weeks, with a train pass and using Rick Steves - "Europe through the
    > Back Door" for most of their information. Probaly want to consider Lets Go
    > Europe also. Said they had a wonderful time and found Rick Steves book
    > invaluable.
    > --mikeb

Craig Wilkes

"PandA" <Don'[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
    > Actually the car was looking like a better option cost wise, and renting
was
    > looking better than leasing.
    > The Eurail pass is about AUD1500 per person for 30 days consecutive =
    > AUD3000
    > Leasing a car was AUD1400 + AUD30 per day above 17 days + say AUD800??
fuel
    > = AUD2590
    > Renting a car for 30 days AUD55 per day + AUD800 fuel = AUD2450
    > But as has been stated many times above, the convenience of rail has to be
    > worth the extra cost (and depending on the fuel consumption/cost + tolls +
    > parking fees, the cost is less unknown).
    > Also I think I am a bit paranoid driving now with all the stories of Roman
    > and French drivers :-)
Andrew,

There are railpasses available for, say 10 days in two months, that are
heaps cheaper than the consecutive passes. They are also discounted for two
people travelling together. Another option is booking individual sectors on
the SNCF and Deutsche Bahn websites.

I travelled through France and Italy for 6 weeks earlier this year and found
it cheaper in my circumstances to book individual trips.

Email me and I can give you more specific advice.

Craig

Reid

Following up to Peter L

    >My problems were I kept looking to the wrong side for the rear view mirror,
    >and leaning my car way too far to one side of the road. We have no traffic
    >circles in the US so that's another thing to get used to. Fortunately there
    >were no other cars in NZ where I was driving.

A nice thing about NZ. My classic is me and wife get in car in
morning. "Hey, who stole the steering wheel!" "Its OK dear, its
over here".
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking & photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Reid

Following up to Edmund Lewis

    > (avoid driving in UK last weekend in May),

Why?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking & photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Reid

Following up to David Horne

    >> valid email addresses get you mountains of spam!
    >I use a valid email address above, and so far I haven't gotten much
    >spam. [I was wondering if spambots delete addresses with the word
    >"spam"- but I don't see why they'd care to do that. (I check it once a
    >month or so just to delete stuff.) In fact, most of the mail I get is
    >from people who emailed me directly from the newsgroup and didn't notice
    >my real email below.

Interesting. I have all addresses valid on my domain. I used a
couple on my website and a couple here on usenet. The website
ones recieved a fair number of spams but the ones on usenet got
hundreds, to the extent I have had to redirect them to a dustbin
address. I know encode my email address on website in Javascript
and use a dustbin address here.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking & photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Reid

Following up to bigbrian

    >>Of course, thanks for spotting that! Its give way to traffic on
    >>roundabout everywhere, which isn't always the same direction!
    >Actually, its not. In several places, traffic already on the
    >roundabout has to give way to traffic joining it

This is rare, generally you give way to traffic on a roundabout.
The reason for this is obvious, think "gridlock"
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking & photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Reid

Following up to PandA

    >But as has been stated many times above, the convenience of rail has to be
    >worth the extra cost (and depending on the fuel consumption/cost + tolls +
    >parking fees, the cost is less unknown).

Trains are convenient only if the place you want to visit has a
railway station. :-)
Do note the frequent threads in this group that run "how do I get
from a to b by bus/train?"
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking & photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Bigbrian

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:28:29 +0000, Reid <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Following up to bigbrian
    >>>Of course, thanks for spotting that! Its give way to traffic on
    >>>roundabout everywhere, which isn't always the same direction!
    >>Actually, its not. In several places, traffic already on the
    >>roundabout has to give way to traffic joining it
    >This is rare, generally you give way to traffic on a roundabout.
    >The reason for this is obvious, think "gridlock"

Which is often what happens. My experience of driving in Italyand
France particularly is that they take literally the idea of giving way
to traffic on the right, with the result that traffic on the
roundabout does, indeed, give way to traffic joining.

The traffic around the Arc de Triomphe is one memorable example :-)

Brian

Deep Freud Moors

Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "PandA" <Don'[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > As I am 27 and my wife is 26 I think we have to get a 1st class ticket
for
    > > this trip.
    > Why? I am 42 and travel all the time in second class. Comfortable enough
and
    > the people in 2nd class are much more fun: young backpackers instead of
    > business types.

Ummm... didn't you say you were 37?

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=37...4all.nl&rnum=3
---
DFM