Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
Oct 5th 2004, 7:43 pm
#16
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Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
"Frank F. Matthews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jcoulter wrote:
> > Des O'Donoghue <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >>Dennis G. Rears wrote:
> >>>"Miss L. Toe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>>"Dennis G. Rears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>news:[email protected]. net...
> >>>>> I was looking at
> > http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/eu...ds.protest.ap/
> >
> >>>index.html
> >>>>>as was thinking "Cool" I've been there many times.... The places
> >>>>>they mentioned were Museum Square and Dam Square. Huh? I've never
> >>>>>heard of those places... Then I realized they meant Museum Plein.
> >>>>>Why can't
> >>>>
> >>>>English
> >>>>>news organizations state the name of the place? Do other languages
> >>>>>do the same same thing?
> >>>>> It is still puzzling to me that we call Moscow vs Mosva, Vienna vs
> >>>>>Wien, Munich vs Munchen... Whales vs Cymru ....
> >>> I don't speak Irish/Gaelic/Scottish?...
> >>I imagine there was a big hint there as to which language it was...
> >>
> >>..so you want Foreign places to be called by their local names if you
> >>speak their language otherwise keep it in english ?
> >>
> >>"Today's Railways" has an admirable policy of reporting on European
> >>railways using their local names - Firenze, Muenchen, Ireland, London,
> >>Berlin, Paris (does anyone ever translate French names?)...
> > English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
> I wonder if that dates back to when they owned much of the place?
Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
> jcoulter wrote:
> > Des O'Donoghue <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >>Dennis G. Rears wrote:
> >>>"Miss L. Toe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>>"Dennis G. Rears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>news:[email protected]. net...
> >>>>> I was looking at
> > http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/eu...ds.protest.ap/
> >
> >>>index.html
> >>>>>as was thinking "Cool" I've been there many times.... The places
> >>>>>they mentioned were Museum Square and Dam Square. Huh? I've never
> >>>>>heard of those places... Then I realized they meant Museum Plein.
> >>>>>Why can't
> >>>>
> >>>>English
> >>>>>news organizations state the name of the place? Do other languages
> >>>>>do the same same thing?
> >>>>> It is still puzzling to me that we call Moscow vs Mosva, Vienna vs
> >>>>>Wien, Munich vs Munchen... Whales vs Cymru ....
> >>> I don't speak Irish/Gaelic/Scottish?...
> >>I imagine there was a big hint there as to which language it was...
> >>
> >>..so you want Foreign places to be called by their local names if you
> >>speak their language otherwise keep it in english ?
> >>
> >>"Today's Railways" has an admirable policy of reporting on European
> >>railways using their local names - Firenze, Muenchen, Ireland, London,
> >>Berlin, Paris (does anyone ever translate French names?)...
> > English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
> I wonder if that dates back to when they owned much of the place?
Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
Surreyman
Oct 5th 2004, 7:56 pm
#17
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Posts: n/a
Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
a.spencer3 wrote:
> "Frank F. Matthews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
> Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
One thing that annoys me is that we're expected to be "politically
correct" and refer, for example, to Ceylon as Sri Lanka, or Peking as
Beijing, the rationale being that these are the local names, but we're
not expected to refer to Germany as Deutschland, or Copenhagen as Kobenhavn.
> "Frank F. Matthews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
> Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
One thing that annoys me is that we're expected to be "politically
correct" and refer, for example, to Ceylon as Sri Lanka, or Peking as
Beijing, the rationale being that these are the local names, but we're
not expected to refer to Germany as Deutschland, or Copenhagen as Kobenhavn.
Oct 5th 2004, 8:06 pm
#18
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Posts: n/a
Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:43:55 GMT, "a.spencer3"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> > English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
>> I wonder if that dates back to when they owned much of the place?
>Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
>Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
Not forgetting Flushing.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> > English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
>> I wonder if that dates back to when they owned much of the place?
>Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
>Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
Not forgetting Flushing.
Oct 5th 2004, 8:56 pm
#19
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Posts: n/a
Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
"Mike O'Sullivan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> a.spencer3 wrote:
> > "Frank F. Matthews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
> > Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
> One thing that annoys me is that we're expected to be "politically
> correct" and refer, for example, to Ceylon as Sri Lanka, or Peking as
> Beijing, the rationale being that these are the local names, but we're
> not expected to refer to Germany as Deutschland, or Copenhagen as
Kobenhavn.
Well, Ceylon did change its own name from Ceylon to Sri Lanka.
But I generally agree with you.
To my sons' bewilderment I still tend to use all the names I grew up with
...
Basutoland, Bechuanaland, British Honduras, Gilbert & Ellis, Northern
Rhodesia, Nyasaland, Aden, Sarawak, Tanganyika, Burma, etc.
Gawd - I'd be a trivia quiz all on my own!
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
> a.spencer3 wrote:
> > "Frank F. Matthews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
> > Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
> One thing that annoys me is that we're expected to be "politically
> correct" and refer, for example, to Ceylon as Sri Lanka, or Peking as
> Beijing, the rationale being that these are the local names, but we're
> not expected to refer to Germany as Deutschland, or Copenhagen as
Kobenhavn.
Well, Ceylon did change its own name from Ceylon to Sri Lanka.
But I generally agree with you.
To my sons' bewilderment I still tend to use all the names I grew up with
...
Basutoland, Bechuanaland, British Honduras, Gilbert & Ellis, Northern
Rhodesia, Nyasaland, Aden, Sarawak, Tanganyika, Burma, etc.
Gawd - I'd be a trivia quiz all on my own!
Surreyman
Oct 5th 2004, 8:57 pm
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:43:55 GMT, "a.spencer3"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for
Reims
> >>
> >> I wonder if that dates back to when they owned much of the place?
> >>
> >
> >Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
> >Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
> Not forgetting Flushing.
Yep!
And Heligoland!
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:43:55 GMT, "a.spencer3"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for
Reims
> >>
> >> I wonder if that dates back to when they owned much of the place?
> >>
> >
> >Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
> >Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
> Not forgetting Flushing.
Yep!
And Heligoland!
Surreyman
Oct 6th 2004, 5:34 am
#21
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Posts: n/a
Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
[email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:43:55 GMT, "a.spencer3"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>>English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
>>>I wonder if that dates back to when they owned much of the place?
>>Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
>>Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
>
>
> Not forgetting Flushing.
One never should - manners maketh the man (or woman)..
> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:43:55 GMT, "a.spencer3"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>>English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
>>>I wonder if that dates back to when they owned much of the place?
>>Nah - we just assume the world, linguistically if not in practice!
>>Rome, Moscow, Peking, Lisbon, Athens, Brussels, etc.! :-))
>
>
> Not forgetting Flushing.
One never should - manners maketh the man (or woman)..
Oct 6th 2004, 5:54 am
#22
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Posts: n/a
Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
In Italian it's Parigi, and isn't Marseilles Massiglia?
And there are some historically contentious ones, like
Strasbourg/Strassbourg, Lorraine/Lothringen, and so on.
PJW
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:10:24 +0100, Des O'Donoghue
<[email protected]> wrote:>
>, Paris (does anyone ever translate French names?)...
And there are some historically contentious ones, like
Strasbourg/Strassbourg, Lorraine/Lothringen, and so on.
PJW
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:10:24 +0100, Des O'Donoghue
<[email protected]> wrote:>
>, Paris (does anyone ever translate French names?)...
Oct 6th 2004, 11:58 am
#23
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Posts: n/a
Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
jcoulter <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>.. .
>
> English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
And Oporto for Porto (Portugal)
>
> English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
And Oporto for Porto (Portugal)
Oct 6th 2004, 1:27 pm
#24
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Posts: n/a
Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:58:02 -0700, Watcher wrote:
> jcoulter <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>.. .
>>
>> English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
>
> And Oporto for Porto (Portugal)
That's just incorporating the article: "o porto," "the harbour." Just as
in "the Hague," "den Haag."
Not a big deal.
> jcoulter <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>.. .
>>
>> English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
>
> And Oporto for Porto (Portugal)
That's just incorporating the article: "o porto," "the harbour." Just as
in "the Hague," "den Haag."
Not a big deal.
Oct 6th 2004, 8:48 pm
#25
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Posts: n/a
Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
"devil" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]. ..
> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:58:02 -0700, Watcher wrote:
> > jcoulter <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>.. .
> >>
> >> English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
> >
> > And Oporto for Porto (Portugal)
> That's just incorporating the article: "o porto," "the harbour." Just as
> in "the Hague," "den Haag."
But no-one, I think, just says 'Haag', (unless they're hedging)! :-))
Surreyman
news:[email protected]. ..
> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:58:02 -0700, Watcher wrote:
> > jcoulter <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>.. .
> >>
> >> English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
> >
> > And Oporto for Porto (Portugal)
> That's just incorporating the article: "o porto," "the harbour." Just as
> in "the Hague," "den Haag."
But no-one, I think, just says 'Haag', (unless they're hedging)! :-))
Surreyman
Oct 7th 2004, 7:40 am
#26
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Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> But no-one, I think, just says 'Haag', (unless they're hedging)! :-))
My 1980 Czechoslovak visa was issued in "Haag", the Hungarian one in "Haga".
Sjoerd
news:[email protected]...
> But no-one, I think, just says 'Haag', (unless they're hedging)! :-))
My 1980 Czechoslovak visa was issued in "Haag", the Hungarian one in "Haga".
Sjoerd
Oct 7th 2004, 10:27 am
#27
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Posts: n/a
Re: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:48:13 +0000, a.spencer3 wrote:
>
> "devil" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]. ..
>> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:58:02 -0700, Watcher wrote:
>> > jcoulter <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>.. .
>> >>
>> >> English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
>> >
>> > And Oporto for Porto (Portugal)
>> That's just incorporating the article: "o porto," "the harbour." Just as
>> in "the Hague," "den Haag."
>
> But no-one, I think, just says 'Haag', (unless they're hedging)! :-))
But then in Portuguese, no one says Porto either. It's 'o Porto'
presumably.
>
> "devil" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]. ..
>> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:58:02 -0700, Watcher wrote:
>> > jcoulter <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>.. .
>> >>
>> >> English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
>> >
>> > And Oporto for Porto (Portugal)
>> That's just incorporating the article: "o porto," "the harbour." Just as
>> in "the Hague," "den Haag."
>
> But no-one, I think, just says 'Haag', (unless they're hedging)! :-))
But then in Portuguese, no one says Porto either. It's 'o Porto'
presumably.
Nov 3rd 2004, 10:13 pm
#28
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Posts: n/a
Translated place names (was: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of
Des O'Donoghue schrieb:
> >>> It is still puzzling to me that we call Moscow vs Mosva, Vienna vs
> >
> > Wien,
> >
> >>>Munich vs Munchen...
> >>>
> >>
> >>Whales vs Cymru ....
> >
> >
> > I don't speak Irish/Gaelic/Scottish?...
> >
> >
> I imagine there was a big hint there as to which language it was...
>
> ..so you want Foreign places to be called by their local names if you
> speak their language otherwise keep it in english ?
>
> "Today's Railways" has an admirable policy of reporting on European
> railways using their local names - Firenze, Muenchen, Ireland, London,
> Berlin, Paris (does anyone ever translate French names?)...
Sure. Dünkirchen. Nizza (Italian & German name). And I do write letters
from Mayence, Mohuc, Moguncja, Maguncia, Mainz or Magonza depending on
the language I use in the letter.
Regards, ULF
> >>> It is still puzzling to me that we call Moscow vs Mosva, Vienna vs
> >
> > Wien,
> >
> >>>Munich vs Munchen...
> >>>
> >>
> >>Whales vs Cymru ....
> >
> >
> > I don't speak Irish/Gaelic/Scottish?...
> >
> >
> I imagine there was a big hint there as to which language it was...
>
> ..so you want Foreign places to be called by their local names if you
> speak their language otherwise keep it in english ?
>
> "Today's Railways" has an admirable policy of reporting on European
> railways using their local names - Firenze, Muenchen, Ireland, London,
> Berlin, Paris (does anyone ever translate French names?)...
Sure. Dünkirchen. Nizza (Italian & German name). And I do write letters
from Mayence, Mohuc, Moguncja, Maguncia, Mainz or Magonza depending on
the language I use in the letter.
Regards, ULF
Nov 3rd 2004, 10:16 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Translated place names (was: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of
devil schrieb:
> >> >> English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
> >> >
> >> > And Oporto for Porto (Portugal)
> >>
> >> That's just incorporating the article: "o porto," "the harbour." Just as
> >> in "the Hague," "den Haag."
> >>
> >
> > But no-one, I think, just says 'Haag', (unless they're hedging)! :-))
>
> But then in Portuguese, no one says Porto either. It's 'o Porto'
> presumably.
Well, they say "comboio Porto - Lisboa" (train Oporto - Lisbon).
But: "Estou no Porto" - I am in *the* Porto/harbour.
Regards, ULF
> >> >> English: Lyons for Lyon and Marseilles for Marseille, Rheims for Reims
> >> >
> >> > And Oporto for Porto (Portugal)
> >>
> >> That's just incorporating the article: "o porto," "the harbour." Just as
> >> in "the Hague," "den Haag."
> >>
> >
> > But no-one, I think, just says 'Haag', (unless they're hedging)! :-))
>
> But then in Portuguese, no one says Porto either. It's 'o Porto'
> presumably.
Well, they say "comboio Porto - Lisboa" (train Oporto - Lisbon).
But: "Estou no Porto" - I am in *the* Porto/harbour.
Regards, ULF
Nov 4th 2004, 3:25 am
#30
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Posts: n/a
Re: Translated place names (was: Amsterdam Protest (slightly OT) Names of places)
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:13:33 +0100, Ulf Kutzner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Des O'Donoghue schrieb:
> ... Paris (does anyone ever translate French names?)...
>Sure. Dünkirchen. Nizza (Italian & German name).
Paris is "Parigi" in Italian.
London is "Londra".
Having translated names is one measure of how important a city is.
Nobody translates the names of hick towns into any language.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Des O'Donoghue schrieb:
> ... Paris (does anyone ever translate French names?)...
>Sure. Dünkirchen. Nizza (Italian & German name).
Paris is "Parigi" in Italian.
London is "Londra".
Having translated names is one measure of how important a city is.
Nobody translates the names of hick towns into any language.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
