Earl Evleth

On 1/06/03 15:37, in article [email protected],
"Go Fig" wrote:

    > The current heat wave in India has killed close to 800, it is getting up
    > to 50C.
    >


One news item said

Temperatures rose as high as 118.2 degrees Fahrenheit and meteorologists
promised no relief from the heat wave for another two days in Andhra Pradesh
state, the state's chief relief official, D.C. Roshaiah, said Saturday.

Last year, a heat wave reached 122 F and killed more than 1,000 people in
the state, most of them elderly.

So it is approaching 50 C. But it does that now and then.



I remember the summer of 1955 in LA in when it stayed around 110 for a week

http://www.goldcoastwx.com/lacv_climo/lacv_climo.html

"Eight-day run of 100 F or higher maxima starting with 31 August. Includes
110 F on 1 September."

We lived in South Central, no air conditioning and I was working in a
refinery.

Cooler is better.

Earl

R J Carpenter

"Thomas Peel" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Jim Ley schrieb:
    > >
    > > On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 11:25:18 +0200, Mxsmanic
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >jeroen writes:
    > > >
    > > >> Only exception is computer server rooms of course.
    > > >
    > > >One of the great advantages to working in IT, except that computer
rooms
    > > >often have the humidity set uncomfortably high as well.
    > >
    > > Hmm, I've always considered one of the great disadvantage of working
    > > in computers, going into server rooms is awful, way too cold, even on
    > > the hottest days you get in the UK.
    > >
    > > Jim.
    > Yes, but getting to the heart of the matter, the dwellers of the Great
    > Indoors
    > feel uncomfortable with indoor temperatures above 18c, whereas most
    > Europeans like their ambience around 20-23c.

I have a 1951 Foyles' handbook on aquariums. On the subject of heating the
aquarium for tropical fish, it says "Taking the average room temperature as
60 F....." I presume that the advent of central heating, insulation, and
caulking around windows has raised British home temperatures a little above
that value today.

Earl Evleth

On 1/06/03 17:09, in article [email protected], "Thomas Peel"
wrote:

    >> Europeans are still on war rationing, too, so they see A/C is a decadent
    >> luxury, rather than an obvious necessity.
    >>
    >
    > Why is freezing to death inside a building in a sunny climate an obvious
    > necessity?


The alternative, in some countries, is over heating in the winter.

Once I was in northern Québec in early May. This region has two
seasons, winter and summer plus 15 minutes of Spring and Fall,
respectively. Snow flurries occur in September, snow is on the ground
in May and the trees are stunted.

But the inside of the buildings I visited were hotter than hell, up around
25 C. I suffered in the same manner once in the winter in New York.

With the excesses of summer use of A/C I had the impressions it was hotter
inside public spaces in the summer than winter in North America.

Energy generation wise the problem is less serious in the winter than
summer.

I remember looking at a chart of electrical consumption in the summer in the
US and it yo-yos around horribly. This make efficient generation of
electricity difficult since power plants have optimum levels of operation.

Earl

Thomas Peel

Earl Evleth schrieb:
    >
    > On 1/06/03 17:09, in article [email protected], "Thomas Peel"
    > wrote:
    >
    > >> Europeans are still on war rationing, too, so they see A/C is a decadent
    > >> luxury, rather than an obvious necessity.
    > >>
    > >
    > > Why is freezing to death inside a building in a sunny climate an obvious
    > > necessity?
    >
    > The alternative, in some countries, is over heating in the winter.
    >
    > Once I was in northern Québec in early May. This region has two
    > seasons, winter and summer plus 15 minutes of Spring and Fall,
    > respectively. Snow flurries occur in September, snow is on the ground
    > in May and the trees are stunted.
    >
    > But the inside of the buildings I visited were hotter than hell, up around
    > 25 C. I suffered in the same manner once in the winter in New York.
    >
Some years back I was in an office building in Moscow. It was September,
the outside temperature was nearly 30c, and the heating was running full
power. There was a thermostat on the wall which had no effect. Someone
called the house technician, who came and couldn't understand what
the problem was supposed to be.
Nothing wrong with the heating, he confirmed. The thermostat not
working?
Just open the window, he said.

Tom

    > With the excesses of summer use of A/C I had the impressions it was hotter
    > inside public spaces in the summer than winter in North America.
    >
    > Energy generation wise the problem is less serious in the winter than
    > summer.
    >
    > I remember looking at a chart of electrical consumption in the summer in the
    > US and it yo-yos around horribly. This make efficient generation of
    > electricity difficult since power plants have optimum levels of operation.
    >
    > Earl

Earl Evleth

On 1/06/03 18:50, in article [email protected], "Thomas Peel"
wrote:

    > Nothing wrong with the heating, he confirmed. The thermostat not
    > working?


Student apartments in Paris ran along the same general principle.

Hot water was delivered through the floors heating each apartment.
The place could be freezing cold or hot, in the winter and no
way to vary the temperature. If too hot, one opened the window.

The only variation is that collective heating goes off April 15th, on
October 15th, regardless of the outside temperature.

The best heating is individual, in Paris, which we have. But collective
heating occurs in rich and poor areas so it is not a question of public
buildings being less efficient than public.

Earl

Marie Lewis

In article , John
writes
    >It actually made me realise just how wasteful we can be in North America.
    >It's just mass consumption, made possible since everything is so cheap.


Mass consumption of the earth's resources is far from cheap.
--
Marie Lewis

Tim Vanhoof

Go Fig wrote:

    > In article ,
    > Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
    >

    > >
    > > Coldness makes people sick, heat has no ill effects ecxept feeling
    > > uncomfortable. Therefore heating is a vital necessity, cooling is but a
    > > dispensable amenity.
    >
    >
    > In N. America, no other natural disaster kills more people than heat.
    >


OK, so we have established that Europe is not North America.

Goerz

"Mxsmanic" ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
    > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
    > > Its necessity is only "obvious" when a) you're
    > > accustomed to it or b) the place where you live
    > > gets warm enough to require it.
    > Most places in the world get warm enough to require it during at least
    > part of the year. In years to come, it will become more and more
    > necessary in an ever-increasing number of locations.

I live in northern Italy, where summers are hot and humid, and I simply
couldn't sleep without air conditioning. Nor could I drive, or work, but
maybe that's just me :-) I turned A/C on yesterday night for the first time
this year.
Regards,
Goerz

Szozu

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Perhaps that's what's wrong with the system in the building where I
    > work. Even with a sweater, I spend half the summer with a small
    > electric room-heater operating in my office! (And if the AC is not
    > operating, we practically suffocate, winter OR summer, because there's
    > no way to open the windows.) We all have thermostats in our offices,
    > but I suspect they're there only to make us FEEL we have some control -
    > they don't seem to make muych difference in the temperature.
When I worked in a modern NY skyscraper, I was always too cold. There were
thermostats in some of the individual offices, but mostly they would be
shared by neighbors--inevitably by one person who found it too hot and
another who found it too cold, leading to innovative high tech solutions
such as taping pieces of paper over the vents. The windows could only be
opened (theoretically) by heaving a solid object through them, so when there
was the occasional chemical smell in the air, we were guaranteed to be
breathing it for days.

Having computers,printers, copiers and fax machines running really generates
a lot of heat, especially since most Americans never turn these off at the
end of the day--something that used to SHOCK people from our head office in
Switzerland, who would even switch off the light of when going out for
lunch.

Here in the South of France, the structure of the villas and apartment
buildings is such that it really stays quite cool, even in the height of
summer--as long as you keep the shutters closed during the heat of the day.
Large supermarkets are usually air conditioned to the point of freezing,
especially when you approach the refrigerated aisles!

Lana

Mxsmanic

Marie Lewis writes:

    > I hope not: it is, in may places, such as the UK,
    > an unacceptable waste of the earth's resources.

Whereas heating is not?


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Mxsmanic

Thomas Peel writes:

    > Why is freezing to death inside a building in a sunny
    > climate an obvious necessity?

You confuse air-conditioning systems and freezers.


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Mxsmanic

Earl Evleth writes:

    > But the inside of the buildings I visited were hotter
    > than hell, up around 25 C.

Many large buildings in Paris are overheated in winter as well.


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Mxsmanic

Earl Evleth writes:

    > The best heating is individual, in Paris, which we
    > have. But collective heating occurs in rich and poor
    > areas so it is not a question of public
    > buildings being less efficient than public.

My building has common heating, which magically seems to come on and go
off and vary in precise synchronization with outside temperatures. My
only complaint is that it sometimes keeps things warmer than I would
prefer. But on very cold days it is quite nice.


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Mxsmanic

Earl Evleth writes:

    > You gone weak.

I've been the same way all my life.


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Mxsmanic

The disadvantage of heat is that you cannot do much about it. If it is
very cold, you can bundle up and your own body heat will keep you warm.
But if it is very hot, there is nothing you can do to keep yourself
cool, as you can only be cool by shedding heat to your environment, and
you cannot shed heat to an environment that is warmer than you are.

David Horne writes:

    > Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
    >
    > > Coldness makes people sick, heat has no ill effects ecxept feeling
    > > uncomfortable.
    >
    > That's not correct. I've been in extremely severe heat waves in US
    > cities where, daily, several people died (usually the elderly) as a
    > direct result of the weather conditions. Indeed, they have emergency
    > drives to ensure that the elderly have fans or A/C when the heat waves
    > occur. Even younger people die during these conditions. I'm pretty sure
    > that you'll even find heat a factor in some deaths in northern Europe-
    > albeit on a much less severe scale.
    >
    > David



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