Wolfgang Schwanke

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > I think that what many Americans do not realize is that much of Europe
    > is further North than the U.S., and thus "summer" (usually) does not
    > mean nearly the severe heat we often experience here.

This is true and not true at the same time. Europe is further North than
the US, but enjoys a milder climate than North American and Asian lands of
the same latitude, because of the Gulf Streamm, and because it's exposed to
Atlantic west winds which give it an oceanic climate with moderate
tempereature variations, as opposed to most of the US which has a
continental climate with harsh extremes.

These are roughly in the same latitude:

Labrador (rural, sortof Scandinavian climate I believe) vs
Britain (industrialised & densely populated, mild climate)

New York (more extreme climate, no "southern" vegetation, harsh winters) vs
Rome (Mediterranean climate, palm trees & oranges, mild winters)

South Georgia (uh I don't know, what climate do they have there? anyway
probably not the same as)
Morocco (Sahara ...)

Baffin Island in Canada (Arctic I assume) vs.
Northern Norway & Sweden (getting colder, but certainly not Arctic)


I really think most of the American preference for air conditioning is
cultural, and only little of it is objectively justified by climate
conditions.

Regards


--
bash/Breakbeat/Haribo


http://www.wschwanke.de/

Marie Lewis

In article , Mxsmanic
writes
    >Most places in the world get warm enough to require it during at least
    >part of the year. In years to come, it will become more and more
    >necessary in an ever-increasing number of locations.


I hope not: it is, in may places, such as the UK, an unacceptable
waste of the earth's resources.
--
Marie Lewis

Marie Lewis

In article
,
David Horne writes
    >Yes, it depends on location. In London, I definitely didn't need to use
    >the heating as much as I do up here, and my parents in Scotland have
    >been known to turn on the heating in July, if you can believe that! Even
    >locally, there can be big variations- we live near Bury, and it always
    >feels a bit colder than central Manchester or, say, Altrincham.

We often have to put on the heating in midsummer are we are about 14
miles north of Bury,
    >The
    >latter two are lower, which is probably the biggest factor. Still, it's
    >been positively balmy the last few days- making up a bit for the
    >rainiest May on record. I just hope it rains here (sorry!) next week
    >while we're in Spain, so the all the flowers are OK.

Thanks! We who are staying at home would reverse that hope, then :-)

--
Marie Lewis

Marie Lewis

In article , Mxsmanic
writes
    >Jesper Lauridsen writes:
    >> That's an odd thing to say about Sevilla...
    >It's an odd thing to be worrying about WWII rationing in 2003, too.
No-one is, except you: and you still haven't explained what you mean.

--
Marie Lewis

Earl Evleth

On 1/06/03 12:02, in article
1fvvfrt.5ytr3d1qc2yjjN%i_will_almost_never_read_th [email protected], "David
Horne" wrote:

    >> Coldness makes people sick, heat has no ill effects ecxept feeling
    >> uncomfortable.
    >
    > That's not correct. I've been in extremely severe heat waves in US
    > cities where, daily, several people died (usually the elderly) as a
    > direct result of the weather conditions.

Either extremes put stress on the human body so a fraction of the people
subjected to it, who are in fragile conditions will die.

The top range might be more serious than the bottom. If one selects
25 degrees C as a "happy center" raising the temperature by 10 degrees
is more or less supportable, to 15 and 35 respectively. But the 35 is
approaching a limit, since going to 10 and 40 shows that 40 is more
stressful on the body than 10 C. Going to 5 degrees starts getting
uncomfortable, one must wear a sweater or coat, but 45 is really outside
the limit. No amount of removing clothing is going to make one very
much more comfortable.

The stress points at low temperatures start occurring below +5C, 0 is
not too good, -5 is really a problem and -10 serious.

As for light clothing, shirts and pants for men, we can manage between
about 15 and 35 without changing.

The change in the average temperature of the earth Is even more
catastrophic. It was down -9 or so degrees at the height of the last
ice age and that put a lot of stress on the general environment.

If global warming occurs to the extent of +5 degrees, there will
be a lot of "discomfort" world wide.

The ecosystem may be less tolerant then we individually.

Earl

Earl Evleth

On 1/06/03 12:36, in article
[email protected], "Gregory
Morrow" wrote:

    > Nope:
    >
    > http://www.sws.uiuc.edu/atmos/statecli/General/heat.htm
    >

The problem with this source is that it only deals with heat and not cold.

I suspect that cold is not a problem in most places, but we do get people
freezing to death every year in France, among the homeless. But I suspect
we don't get more than a dozen a year in France. The study would have to
include extra fatal heart attacks during the cold months.

People do slip on ice and suffer fatal injuries. They do shovel snow
and die a heart attack.

Those who died from heat prostration are easy statistics to gather, but the
deaths due to cold are more diffuse.

Finally, I have a bronchitis each winter and actually feel greater menace
with the approach of the winter than the summer! For old people winters
are also a challenge and dreaded by some.

Earl

Jim Ley

On Sat, 31 May 2003 06:17:27 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

    >Air conditioning doesn't cost anything when it isn't running.

Of course it does, there's the capital investment, and there's the
space it takes up that would otherwise be available for other things.

    >Fans provide air movement, not cooling.

but moving air over your body makes your bodies cooling mechanism more
efficient, or were you cooling the house for some other reason than
personal comfort?

Jim.

Jim Ley

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 11:25:18 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

    >jeroen writes:
    >> Only exception is computer server rooms of course.
    >One of the great advantages to working in IT, except that computer rooms
    >often have the humidity set uncomfortably high as well.

Hmm, I've always considered one of the great disadvantage of working
in computers, going into server rooms is awful, way too cold, even on
the hottest days you get in the UK.

Jim.

Go Fig

The current heat wave in India has killed close to 800, it is getting up
to 50C.

jay
Sun, Jun 1, 2003
mailto:[email protected]





In article ,
Earl Evleth wrote:

    > On 1/06/03 12:36, in article
    > [email protected], "Gregory
    > Morrow" wrote:
    >
    > > Nope:
    > >
    > > http://www.sws.uiuc.edu/atmos/statecli/General/heat.htm
    > >
    >
    > The problem with this source is that it only deals with heat and not cold.
    >
    > I suspect that cold is not a problem in most places, but we do get people
    > freezing to death every year in France, among the homeless. But I suspect
    > we don't get more than a dozen a year in France. The study would have to
    > include extra fatal heart attacks during the cold months.
    >
    > People do slip on ice and suffer fatal injuries. They do shovel snow
    > and die a heart attack.
    >
    > Those who died from heat prostration are easy statistics to gather, but the
    > deaths due to cold are more diffuse.
    >
    > Finally, I have a bronchitis each winter and actually feel greater menace
    > with the approach of the winter than the summer! For old people winters
    > are also a challenge and dreaded by some.
    >
    > Earl
    >

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

John

I think I know what he means. I moved here (London) from Canada and noticed
that everything is "metered". People always take care not to use too much
hot water, not to stay on the phone too long, not to use the dryer or the
washer too much for the cost of the electricity. not to call a mobile phone
because it costs so much (the whole bizarre concept of calling the mobile
being different to calling a land line). "texting" people because it's
cheaper. tiny (50ml) tubes of toothpaste costing about $2. planning the
public transport route because there are no transfers .. the list goes on an
on.

It actually made me realise just how wasteful we can be in North America.
It's just mass consumption, made possible since everything is so cheap.

I'm just glad London has such great stuff (e.g. travel prospects, fun
people, fascinating history) to make some of the costs worth it!

John


"Donna Evleth" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Dans l'article , Mxsmanic
    > a écrit :
    > > Earl Evleth writes:
    > >
    > >> Just with my wife, she is an historian of the
    > >> WWII period, especially the occupation period.
    > >> With about a 1000 books and piles of dossiers
    > >> scattered throughout her office, WWII is still
    > >> in progress.
    > >
    > > She should feel right at home in Europe, then, where most people still
    > > behave as if rationing were in effect (except for alcohol, tobacco, and
    > > gasoline).
    > What in the world does that comment mean, Mxsmanic? How do we behave as
if
    > rationing were still in effect? Please be specific.
    > Donna Evleth
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me
directly.

Owain

"Jim Ley" wrote
    | Mxsmanic wrote:
    | >jeroen writes:
    | >> Only exception is computer server rooms of course.
    | >One of the great advantages to working in IT, except that computer rooms
    | >often have the humidity set uncomfortably high as well.
    | Hmm, I've always considered one of the great disadvantage of working
    | in computers, going into server rooms is awful, way too cold, even on
    | the hottest days you get in the UK.

The last time I was working full-time over the summer I would use any excuse
to get even a few minutes in the computer room just to cool off.

Mind you, I do start wilting at anything over 22 C. Scotland is just too
bloddy hot at times.

Owain

Thomas Peel

Mxsmanic schrieb:
    >
    > Donna Evleth writes:
    >
    > > Really unbearable hot weather (from our point of view)
    > > comes so seldom and for so short a period
    > > that a/c is not really worth the expense to us.
    >
    > There was plenty of it today, and this is only May.
    >
    > A/C doesn't cost anything if you don't use it.
    >
    > > I think that our experience both places simply
    > > indicates that the a/c question all depends on what
    > > you are used to. Europeans don't like it as
    > > cold as Americans do.
    >
    > Europeans are still on war rationing, too, so they see A/C is a decadent
    > luxury, rather than an obvious necessity.
    >

Why is freezing to death inside a building in a sunny climate an obvious
necessity?

Tom

    > --
    > Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Thomas Peel

Marie Lewis schrieb:
    >
    > In article , Mxsmanic
    > writes
    > >Jesper Lauridsen writes:
    > >
    > >> That's an odd thing to say about Sevilla...
    > >
    > >It's an odd thing to be worrying about WWII rationing in 2003, too.
    > >
    > >
    > No-one is, except you: and you still haven't explained what you mean.
    >
    > --
    > Marie Lewis

Maybe he was around during WWII and his brain's going a bit soft?
Happened to our neighbour's father, he keeps complaining about being
kept in a prison camp.

Tom

Thomas Peel

Jim Ley schrieb:
    >
    > On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 11:25:18 +0200, Mxsmanic
    > wrote:
    >
    > >jeroen writes:
    > >
    > >> Only exception is computer server rooms of course.
    > >
    > >One of the great advantages to working in IT, except that computer rooms
    > >often have the humidity set uncomfortably high as well.
    >
    > Hmm, I've always considered one of the great disadvantage of working
    > in computers, going into server rooms is awful, way too cold, even on
    > the hottest days you get in the UK.
    >
    > Jim.

Yes, but getting to the heart of the matter, the dwellers of the Great
Indoors
feel uncomfortable with indoor temperatures above 18c, whereas most
Europeans like their ambience around 20-23c.

Tom

Thomas Peel

Wolfgang Schwanke schrieb:
    >
    > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > I think that what many Americans do not realize is that much of Europe
    > > is further North than the U.S., and thus "summer" (usually) does not
    > > mean nearly the severe heat we often experience here.
    >
    > This is true and not true at the same time. Europe is further North than
    > the US, but enjoys a milder climate than North American and Asian lands of
    > the same latitude, because of the Gulf Streamm, and because it's exposed to
    > Atlantic west winds which give it an oceanic climate with moderate
    > tempereature variations, as opposed to most of the US which has a
    > continental climate with harsh extremes.

It is now known that the Gulf Stream is driven by the formation of ice
every
winter in the Arctic ocean. If global warming were to reach the point
that
this ice did not form, the Gulf Stream would stop, with the paradoxical
result that temperatures in Europe would drop several degrees.

Tom

    >
    > These are roughly in the same latitude:
    >
    > Labrador (rural, sortof Scandinavian climate I believe) vs
    > Britain (industrialised & densely populated, mild climate)
    >
    > New York (more extreme climate, no "southern" vegetation, harsh winters) vs
    > Rome (Mediterranean climate, palm trees & oranges, mild winters)
    >
    > South Georgia (uh I don't know, what climate do they have there? anyway
    > probably not the same as)
    > Morocco (Sahara ...)
    >
    > Baffin Island in Canada (Arctic I assume) vs.
    > Northern Norway & Sweden (getting colder, but certainly not Arctic)
    >
    > I really think most of the American preference for air conditioning is
    > cultural, and only little of it is objectively justified by climate
    > conditions.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > --
    > bash/Breakbeat/Haribo
    >
    > http://www.wschwanke.de/