Earl Evleth

On 31/05/03 17:20, in article [email protected],
"Mxsmanic" wrote:

    > I meant WWII; most Europeans behave
    > as though it were still in progress.


Just with my wife, she is an historian of the WWII period, especially the
occupation period. With about a 1000 books and piles of dossiers scattered
throughout her office, WWII is still in progress.

Earl

Mxsmanic

Earl Evleth writes:

    > You certainly aren`t in Paris are you??

In Paris. 31 degrees today and 61% humidity. Therefore I run the A/C.
I tried to go for a walk, but it was too warm and humid to enjoy it.


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Mxsmanic

Earl Evleth writes:

    > Just with my wife, she is an historian of the
    > WWII period, especially the occupation period.
    > With about a 1000 books and piles of dossiers
    > scattered throughout her office, WWII is still
    > in progress.

She should feel right at home in Europe, then, where most people still
behave as if rationing were in effect (except for alcohol, tobacco, and
gasoline).


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Evelynvogtgamble

John wrote:
    >
    > How widespread is air conditioning in European countries, both in the work
    > place and people's homes?
    >
    > Is it viewed as a luxury? or a "North American style" oddity, or just
    > another appliance that some people have and some don't.
    >
    > thanks for any feedback (I'm serious in my question, not trying to provoke
    > any kind of trolling)
    > John.

I think that what many Americans do not realize is that much of Europe
is further North than the U.S., and thus "summer" (usually) does not
mean nearly the severe heat we often experience here. (Although the
climate is more humid than our Southwest, so Farenheit temperatures in
the mid-eighties - if they get that high - may still result in extreme
discomfort for those not accustomed to it.) My hotel in Brussels, last
June, did have air-conditioning - it claims to be five-star, and was
full of American business people, so may be an exception - but I
certainly didn't need it, even though the weather was warm enough so
even a sweater or shawl was not necessary, outdoors. (And one nice
feature of European hotel rooms is that your windows can actually be
OPENED, which they cannot be in air-conditioned buildings here.)

Evelynvogtgamble

Mark Hewitt wrote:
    >
    > "Miss L.Toe" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > However it is starting to appear more often in cars in the UK.
    >
    > Thats true. I've noticed (from hire companies anyway) it is present in all
    > models of cars in the USA. However it is an expensive extra with UK models.

I think it is an extra in American, too, when you are purchasing a car -
the hire companies want to increase their "resale value" as much as
possible, since they only offer late model cars for hire and sell them
before they are more than a couple of years old. (Of course, more and
more in America, although one pays "extra" for the feature, it is
incorporated into most of those shipped to the dealers - if one wants
one without it, one must have the dealer "special order" it.)

Evelynvogtgamble

Kristian wrote:
    >
    > "John" wrote:
    > >How widespread is air conditioning in European countries, both in the work
    > >place and people's homes?
    > >Is it viewed as a luxury? or a "North American style" oddity, or just
    > >another appliance that some people have and some don't.
    > >thanks for any feedback (I'm serious in my question, not trying to provoke
    > >any kind of trolling)
    > >John.
    > -----------------
    > We had airconditioning installed at work at one time during a hot
    > summer. Not because of us,the employees, but because the computers
    > couldn`t cope with the heat. I think in Northern Europe we kind of
    > used to enjoy to "suffer" the heat for a few weeks during summer - oh,
    > boy what a great summer we are having !
    > But once you`ve got used to the airconditioning you feel you can`t
    > live without it.

That seems to be true of most "modern conveniences", doesn't it? How
many housewives (except for underclothes when traveling) do their
laundry by hand, any more? Even if you live where you may dry your
clothes outdoors, most families in their own homes have a washing
machine, nowadays. And a refrigerator for food is almost universal,
even in parts of the world where you still buy things fresh daily,
instead of buying your gorceries only once a week. The refrigerator, in
that case, may be much smaller than our giant refrigerator-freezer
combinations, but how often do you use the old-fashioned "larder"
anymore? Our ancestors lived without all this "stuff", and survived
perfectly well, but nowadays..... (I'd be willing to fight to retain my
dishwasher and microwave oven!)

Evelynvogtgamble

nightjar wrote:
    >
    > "Les B. Avenue" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > ...
    > > For the UK, a/c is becoming far more commen in business places. The only
    > > problem is that it is rubbish and hardly ever works properly IME.
    >
    > It depends what systems you install. I did have a British built system in
    > one of my factories, but it wasn't built to handle the hottest days, when it
    > was needed most. It has now been replaced with a Japanese built system,
    > which is designed for higher temperatures. Also, being one of the later
    > systems, it has variable compressor output, which gives it much closer
    > control over the room temperature.

Perhaps that's what's wrong with the system in the building where I
work. Even with a sweater, I spend half the summer with a small
electric room-heater operating in my office! (And if the AC is not
operating, we practically suffocate, winter OR summer, because there's
no way to open the windows.) We all have thermostats in our offices,
but I suspect they're there only to make us FEEL we have some control -
they don't seem to make muych difference in the temperature.

    >
    > Colin Bignell

Evelynvogtgamble

Donna Evleth wrote:
    >
    >
    > Dans l'article , grey
    > a écrit :
    >
    > > On Fri, 30 May 2003 11:34:13 +0100, "John" wrote:
    > >
    > >>How widespread is air conditioning in European countries, both in the work
    > >>place and people's homes?
    > >>
    > >>Is it viewed as a luxury? or a "North American style" oddity, or just
    > >>another appliance that some people have and some don't.
    > >
    > > Very little real a/c in Europe; in hotels, even if they have it, it's
    > > only token, enough to bring down temps 2-6 degrees only, usually. But
    > > it's coming to be more widespread.
    >
    > We live in Paris. We do not have a/c at home. We live in an old building
    > with thick walls which insulate well, and we have found that an ordinary fan
    > does just fine on hot days. And in any case, the worst of the hot weather
    > comes in August, when we are elsewhere on vacation. Really unbearable hot
    > weather (from our point of view) comes so seldom and for so short a period
    > that a/c is not really worth the expense to us.
    >
    > What we have had a problem with is a/c when we go to visit in the US. Last
    > year we went to Florida in January. The temperature was about 80 degrees,
    > but the humidity was not what you would usually expect from Florida, quite
    > low. However, all the public places were air conditioned to temperatures we
    > found uncomfortable. I would have enjoyed my stone crabs (which are a cold
    > dish) a lot more if I had not been freezing in the a/c. In our motel, we
    > always turned the a/c off when we were there, and opened the window. We
    > would go out for the day, come back, and find the a/c on again, set to
    > freezing, and the window closed. We would turn it off, open the window, and
    > wait for the room to warm up sufficiently for us to be comfortable.
    >
    > I think that our experience both places simply indicates that the a/c
    > question all depends on what you are used to. Europeans don't like it as
    > cold as Americans do. It doesn't mean either one is wrong or inferior,
    > there are just different tastes.

And there are still plenty of Americans who live without it! Southern
California has plenty of very hot weather, but many, many homes in the
beach communities do not find air-conditioning a necessity - even if the
temperatures rise fairly high during the day, that sea breeze which
comes up around 3 P.M. makes the evenings cool enough to require some
sort of wrap. Even a lot of the newer homes in those areas do not have
air-conditioning installed. The same holds true for some of the higher
elevations, here (where in winter they can have snow).

    >
    > Donna Evleth
    > >

Evelynvogtgamble

Mxsmanic wrote:
    >
    > Donna Evleth writes:
    >
    > > Really unbearable hot weather (from our point of view)
    > > comes so seldom and for so short a period
    > > that a/c is not really worth the expense to us.
    >
    > There was plenty of it today, and this is only May.
    >
    > A/C doesn't cost anything if you don't use it.
    >
    > > I think that our experience both places simply
    > > indicates that the a/c question all depends on what
    > > you are used to. Europeans don't like it as
    > > cold as Americans do.
    >
    > Europeans are still on war rationing, too, so they see A/C is a decadent
    > luxury, rather than an obvious necessity.

Its necessity is only "obvious" when a) you're accustomed to it or b)
the place where you live gets warm enough to require it. I commented on
the beach areas of Southern California, and one of our posters from the
Pacific Northwest also pointed out areas where it realy isn't needed.
Or were you being facetious? (With you it's sometimes difficult to tell
whether you're joking, trolling, or simply posting a reply.)

    >
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Jesper Lauridsen

Mxsmanic wrote:
    >
    > That's not the war I had in mind. I meant WWII; most Europeans behave
    > as though it were still in progress.

That's an odd thing to say about Sevilla...

Mxsmanic

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:

    > Its necessity is only "obvious" when a) you're
    > accustomed to it or b) the place where you live
    > gets warm enough to require it.

Most places in the world get warm enough to require it during at least
part of the year. In years to come, it will become more and more
necessary in an ever-increasing number of locations.


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Mxsmanic

Jesper Lauridsen writes:

    > That's an odd thing to say about Sevilla...

It's an odd thing to be worrying about WWII rationing in 2003, too.


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Mxsmanic

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:

    > Our ancestors lived without all this "stuff" ...

Until age 40, then they died.


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Gregory Morrow

"Go Fig" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article ,
    > Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
    > > Mxsmanic wrote in
    > > news:[email protected]:
    > >
    > > >> When the climate is such that only for a couple
    > > >> of weeks per year cooling is required, an air
    > > >> conditioning system will be idle most of the time,
    > > >> and therefore considered an unnecessary luxury
    > > >> by most.
    > > >
    > > > Odd that nobody feels this way about heating.
    > >
    > > Coldness makes people sick, heat has no ill effects ecxept feeling
    > > uncomfortable. Therefore heating is a vital necessity, cooling is but a
    > > dispensable amenity.
    > In N. America, no other natural disaster kills more people than heat.
    > jay
    > Sat, May 31, 2003
    > mailto:[email protected]
    > >
    > > > Air conditioning doesn't cost anything when it isn't running.
    > >
    > > Except for the annual write-off from the installation price, maintenance
&
    > > repair. Which is quite a lot.
    > >
    > > >> You can use a cheap fan for the days when you need cooling.
    > > >
    > > > Fans provide air movement, not cooling.
    > >
    > > Air movement cools moist surfaces, such as human skin. The furniture may
    > > well endure the heat.
    > --
    > Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
    > Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Gregory Morrow

Go Fig wrote:

    > In N. America, no other natural disaster kills more people than heat.

True. For example:

http://www.sws.uiuc.edu/atmos/statec...995Chicago.htm

"The heat wave in July 1995 in Chicago was one of the worst weather-related
disasters in Illinois history with approximately 525 deaths over a 5-day
period. As noted by Changnon et al. (1996), "The loss of human life in hot
spells in summer exceeds that caused by all other weather events in the
United States combined, including lightning, rainstorms/floods, hurricanes,
and tornadoes." Weather hazards such as tornadoes, floods, lightning, and
winter storms each result in about 100 deaths per year on average, while
heat waves result in about 1000 deaths per year on average.

The really hot weather in Chicago occurred from July 12 to July 16. The 106°
F on July 13th set the record for the warmest July temperature since records
began at Midway in 1928. Not only were the daytime temperatures high but the
nighttime low temperatures were quite high (upper 70s and lower 80s) as
well. Record humidity levels also accompanied the hot weather. The high
humidity and high nighttime temperatures provided little relief from the
heat.

Most of the victims of the 1995 heat wave were the elderly in the heart of
the urban area. Many of the poorer older citizens either had no air
conditioning or could not afford to operate the system they had. Many older
citizens were also hesitant to open windows and doors at night for fear of
crime. By contrast, in the heat waves of the 1930s, many residents slept
outside in the parks or along the shore of Lake Michigan.

Other factors that contributed to the high number of deaths were an
inadequate local heat wave warning system, power failures, inadequate
ambulance service and hospital facilities, and the aging of the population
in the urban areas. City officials did not release a heat emergency warning
until June 15, the last day of the heat wave. Thus, such emergency measures
as Chicago's five cooling centers were not fully utilized. The medical
system of Chicago was severely taxed as thousands were taken to local
hospitals with heat-related problems. In some cases, fire trucks were used
as substitute ambulances.

Unfortunately, Chicago will continue to be vulnerable to heat waves because
of the urban heat island and the socio-economic makeup of the urban area
(high percentage of lower-income elderly). However, the number of deaths may
be reduced by: a) implementing an early-warning system that takes into
account the local conditions, b) better define the heat island conditions
associated with heat waves to improve forecasts, c) develop a uniform means
for classifying heat-related deaths, and d) increase the research on the
conditions of heat stress and heat waves."






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Greg