Chad Irby

In article <[email protected]>,
AJC <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:57:38 GMT, Chad Irby <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >...and even with that, it's still going to be faster than most customs
    > >checks in 99% of the countries in the world.
    >
    > You don't get out very much do you?

I'm sure *you* don't, if you think US Customs and Immigration is bad,
compared to most places. Try any of the African nations, for example.
Or Russia.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Chad Irby

In article <P%[email protected]>,
"Lennart Petersen" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > 99% ? Interesting. I transferred recently in 6 minutes from International
    > to domestic including security check. Was in Sandefjord Norway.
    > How many transfers international-domestic are done in less 6 minutes in U.S
    > ?

You're taking a very unusual example (EU internal transfers), and
pretending that it's common worldwide.

Now, *that's* interesting.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Ajc

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:30:05 +0000 (UTC), Alan Pollock
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >In rec.travel.usa-canada AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
    >> former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
    >> any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.
    >So you must be familiar with the process.
    >Seriously, driver's licenses are used as ID in the US.

And your point is what? Driving licences are used as a form of
identification in many countries whose governments don't keep a
database of innocent citizens' fingerprints.

--==++AJC++==--

Wolfgang Schwanke

Chad Irby <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    >> It's not the _time_ it takes which offends people.
    >
    > If people were worried about bureaucratic nosiness, they wouldn't go to
    > most of Europe in the first place.

This is just one step too far, it invades privacy rights. The only
comparable practice I can think of is the border procedures of former
eastern block countries. But even they didn't go that far.

Regards

--
Jetzt kommt das Wirtschaftswunder


http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de

Oelewapper

"Magda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > ... Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
    > ... former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
    > ... any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.
    > I have had my 10 fingerprints taken when I got my first identity card at
18. That card had
    > a big print (including sides) of my right thumb right under my picture. I
didn't feel I
    > was being treated as a criminal at all. I wasn't intending to get in
trouble anyway, so I
    > was glad that if an identity mistake happened, the police already had my
fingerprints and
    > could prove my innocence.

Dear Magda,

You're sure you don't mind if "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU" ?? What if your
employer or the AT&T's, Microsofts, Walmarts and Citigroups of this world
start fingerprinting or DNA-scanning you... you're sure you're "innocent"
enough to hand over your fingerprints to them ?
I just wonder is this a typical European concern or is it just a matter of
you being ignorant and naive ???

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm
Feel free to have look, it's free !!! :

<< In the ramifications of party doctrine she had not the faintest
interest. Whenever he began to talk of the principles of Ingsoc,
doublethink, the mutability of the past, and the denial of objective
reality, and to use Newspeak words, she became bored and confused and said
that she never paid any attention to that kind of thing. One knew that it
was all rubbish, so why let oneself be worried by it? She knew when to cheer
and when to boo, and that was all one needed. If he persisted in talking of
such subjects, she had a disconcerting habit of falling asleep. She was one
of those people who can go to sleep at any hour and in any position. Talking
to her, he realized how easy it was to present an appearance of orthodoxy
while having no grasp whatever of what orthodoxy meant. In a way, the
world-view of the Party imposed itself most successfully on people incapable
of understanding it. They could be made to accept the most flagrant
violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what
was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events
to notice what was happening. By lack of understanding they remained sane.
They simply swallowed everything, and what they swallowed did them no harm,
because it left no residue behind, just as a grain of corn will pass
undigested through the body of a bird. >> Part Two - Chapter 5

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

<< 'We may be together for another six months -- a year -- there's no
knowing. At the end we're certain to be apart. Do you realize how utterly
alone we shall be? When once they get hold of us there will be nothing,
literally nothing, that either of us can do for the other. If I confess,
they'll shoot you, and if I refuse to confess, they'll shoot you just the
same. Nothing that I can do or say, or stop myself from saying, will put off
your death for as much as five minutes. Neither of us will even know whether
the other is alive or dead. We shall be utterly without power of any kind.
The one thing that matters is that we shouldn't betray one another, although
even that can't make the slightest difference.'
'If you mean confessing,' she said, 'we shall do that, right enough.
Everybody always confesses. You can't help it. They torture you.'
'I don't mean confessing. Confession is not betrayal. What you say or do
doesn't matter: only feelings matter. If they could make me stop loving
you -- that would be the real betrayal.'
She thought it over. 'They can't do that,' she said finally. 'It's the one
thing they can't do. They can make you say anything -- anything -- but they
can't make you believe it. They can't get inside you.'
'No,' he said a little more hopefully, 'no; that's quite true. They can't
get inside you. If you can feel that staying human is worth while, even when
it can't have any result whatever, you've beaten them.'
He thought of the telescreen with its never-sleeping ear. They could spy
upon you night and day, but if you kept your head you could still outwit
them. With all their cleverness they had never mastered the secret of
finding out what another human being was thinking. Perhaps that was less
true when you were actually in their hands. One did not know what happened
inside the Ministry of Love, but it was possible to guess: tortures, drugs,
delicate instruments that registered your nervous reactions, gradual
wearing-down by sleeplessness and solitude and persistent questioning.
Facts, at any rate, could not be kept hidden. They could be tracked down by
enquiry, they could be squeezed out of you by torture. But if the object was
not to stay alive but to stay human, what difference did it ultimately make?
They could not alter your feelings: for that matter you could not alter them
yourself, even if you wanted to. They could lay bare in the utmost detail
everything that you had done or said or thought; but the inner heart, whose
workings were mysterious even to yourself, remained impregnable. >> Part
Two - Chapter 7

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

<< The Ministry of Truth -- Minitrue, in Newspeak -- was startlingly
different from any other object in sight. It was an enormous pyramidal
structure of glittering white concrete, soaring up, terrace after terrace,
300 metres into the air. From where Winston stood it was just possible to
read, picked out on its white face in elegant lettering, the three slogans
of the Party: WAR IS PEACE - FREEDOM IS SLAVERY - IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH >>
Part One - Chapter 1


http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

<< Often they gave themselves up to daydreams of escape. Their luck would
hold indefinitely, and they would carry on their intrigue, just like this,
for the remainder of their natural lives. Or Katharine would die, and by
subtle manoeuvrings Winston and Julia would succeed in getting married. Or
they would commit suicide together. Or they would disappear, alter
themselves out of recognition, learn to speak with proletarian accents, get
jobs in a factory and live out their lives undetected in a back-street. It
was all nonsense, as they both knew. In reality there was no escape. Even
the one plan that was practicable, suicide, they had no intention of
carrying out. To hang on from day to day and from week to week, spinning out
a present that had no future, seemed an unconquerable instinct, just as
one's lungs will always draw the next breath so long as there is air
available.
Sometimes, too, they talked of engaging in active rebellion against the
Party, but with no notion of how to take the first step. Even if the
fabulous Brotherhood was a reality, there still remained the difficulty of
finding one's way into it. He told her of the strange intimacy that existed,
or seemed to exist, between himself and O'Brien, and of the impulse he
sometimes felt, simply to walk into O'Brien's presence, announce that he was
the enemy of the Party, and demand his help. Curiously enough, this did not
strike her as an impossibly rash thing to do. She was used to judging people
by their faces, and it seemed natural to her that Winston should believe
O'Brien to be trustworthy on the strength of a single flash of the eyes.
Moreover she took it for granted that everyone, or nearly everyone, secretly
hated the Party and would break the rules if he thought it safe to do so.
But she refused to believe that widespread, organized opposition existed or
could exist. The tales about Goldstein and his underground army, she said,
were simply a lot of rubbish which the Party had invented for its own
purposes and which you had to pretend to believe in. Times beyond number, at
Party rallies and spontaneous demonstrations, she had shouted at the top of
her voice for the execution of people whose names she had never heard and in
whose supposed crimes she had not the faintest belief. When public trials
were happening she had taken her place in the detachments from the Youth
League who surrounded the courts from morning to night, chanting at
intervals 'Death to the traitors!' During the Two Minutes Hate she always
excelled all others in shouting insults at Goldstein. Yet she had only the
dimmest idea of who Goldstein was and what doctrines he was supposed to
represent. She had grown up since the Revolution and was too young to
remember the ideological battles of the fifties and sixties. Such a thing as
an independent political movement was outside her imagination: and in any
case the Party was invincible. It would always exist, and it would always be
the same. You could only rebel against it by secret disobedience or, at
most, by isolated acts of violence such as killing somebody or blowing
something up. >> Part Two - Chapter 5

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

<< His eyes re-focused on the page. He discovered that while he sat
helplessly musing he had also been writing, as though by automatic action.
And it was no longer the same cramped, awkward handwriting as before. His
pen had slid voluptuously over the smooth paper, printing in large neat
capitals - DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER - DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER - DOWN WITH BIG
BROTHER - DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER - DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER - over and over
again, filling half a page.
He could not help feeling a twinge of panic. It was absurd, since the
writing of those particular words was not more dangerous than the initial
act of opening the diary, but for a moment he was tempted to tear out the
spoiled pages and abandon the enterprise altogether.
He did not do so, however, because he knew that it was useless. Whether he
wrote DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER, or whether he refrained from writing it, made
no difference. Whether he went on with the diary, or whether he did not go
on with it, made no difference. The Thought Police would get him just the
same. He had committed -- would still have committed, even if he had never
set pen to paper -- the essential crime that contained all others in itself.
Thoughtcrime, they called it. Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be
concealed for ever. You might dodge successfully for a while, even for
years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you.
It was always at night -- the arrests invariably happened at night. The
sudden jerk out of sleep, the rough hand shaking your shoulder, the lights
glaring in your eyes, the ring of hard faces round the bed. In the vast
majority of cases there was no trial, no report of the arrest. People simply
disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the
registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your
one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished,
annihilated: vaporized was the usual word.
For a moment he was seized by a kind of hysteria. He began writing in a
hurried untidy scrawl:
-- theyll shoot me i dont care theyll shoot me in the back of the neck i
dont care down with big brother they always shoot you in the back of the
neck i dont care down with big brother --
He sat back in his chair, slightly ashamed of himself, and laid down the
pen. The next moment he started violently. There was a knocking at the door.
Already! He sat as still as a mouse, in the futile hope that whoever it was
might go away after a single attempt. But no, the knocking was repeated. The
worst thing of all would be to delay. His heart was thumping like a drum,
but his face, from long habit, was probably expressionless. He got up and
moved heavily towards the door. >> Part One - Chapter 1

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

Oelewapper

"Magda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Dear Magda,

    > ... Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
    > ... former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
    > ... any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.
    > I have had my 10 fingerprints taken when I got my first identity card at
18. That card had
    > a big print (including sides) of my right thumb right under my picture. I
didn't feel I
    > was being treated as a criminal at all. I wasn't intending to get in
trouble anyway, so I
    > was glad that if an identity mistake happened, the police already had my
fingerprints and
    > could prove my innocence.

You're sure you don't mind if "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU" ?? What if your
employer or the AT&T's, Microsofts, Walmarts and Citigroups of this world
were to start biometrically fingerprinting or genetically DNA-scanning
you... you're sure you're "innocent" enough to hand over your fingerprints
to them ?
I just wonder if this fear of a Faustian/Orwellian doomsday is a typically
European concern or is it just a matter of you being ignorant and naive ???

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm
Feel free to have look, it's free !!!


From Part Two - Ch 5 :
<< In the ramifications of party doctrine she had not the faintest
interest. Whenever he began to talk of the principles of Ingsoc,
doublethink, the mutability of the past, and the denial of objective
reality, and to use Newspeak words, she became bored and confused and said
that she never paid any attention to that kind of thing. One knew that it
was all rubbish, so why let oneself be worried by it? She knew when to cheer
and when to boo, and that was all one needed. If he persisted in talking of
such subjects, she had a disconcerting habit of falling asleep. She was one
of those people who can go to sleep at any hour and in any position. Talking
to her, he realized how easy it was to present an appearance of orthodoxy
while having no grasp whatever of what orthodoxy meant. In a way, the
world-view of the Party imposed itself most successfully on people incapable
of understanding it. They could be made to accept the most flagrant
violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what
was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events
to notice what was happening. By lack of understanding they remained sane.
They simply swallowed everything, and what they swallowed did them no harm,
because it left no residue behind, just as a grain of corn will pass
undigested through the body of a bird. >>

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

From Part Two - Ch 7 :
<< 'We may be together for another six months -- a year -- there's no
knowing. At the end we're certain to be apart. Do you realize how utterly
alone we shall be? When once they get hold of us there will be nothing,
literally nothing, that either of us can do for the other. If I confess,
they'll shoot you, and if I refuse to confess, they'll shoot you just the
same. Nothing that I can do or say, or stop myself from saying, will put off
your death for as much as five minutes. Neither of us will even know whether
the other is alive or dead. We shall be utterly without power of any kind.
The one thing that matters is that we shouldn't betray one another, although
even that can't make the slightest difference.'
'If you mean confessing,' she said, 'we shall do that, right enough.
Everybody always confesses. You can't help it. They torture you.'
'I don't mean confessing. Confession is not betrayal. What you say or do
doesn't matter: only feelings matter. If they could make me stop loving
you -- that would be the real betrayal.'
She thought it over. 'They can't do that,' she said finally. 'It's the one
thing they can't do. They can make you say anything -- anything -- but they
can't make you believe it. They can't get inside you.'
'No,' he said a little more hopefully, 'no; that's quite true. They can't
get inside you. If you can feel that staying human is worth while, even when
it can't have any result whatever, you've beaten them.'
He thought of the telescreen with its never-sleeping ear. They could spy
upon you night and day, but if you kept your head you could still outwit
them. With all their cleverness they had never mastered the secret of
finding out what another human being was thinking. Perhaps that was less
true when you were actually in their hands. One did not know what happened
inside the Ministry of Love, but it was possible to guess: tortures, drugs,
delicate instruments that registered your nervous reactions, gradual
wearing-down by sleeplessness and solitude and persistent questioning.
Facts, at any rate, could not be kept hidden. They could be tracked down by
enquiry, they could be squeezed out of you by torture. But if the object was
not to stay alive but to stay human, what difference did it ultimately make?
They could not alter your feelings: for that matter you could not alter them
yourself, even if you wanted to. They could lay bare in the utmost detail
everything that you had done or said or thought; but the inner heart, whose
workings were mysterious even to yourself, remained impregnable. >>

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

From Part One - Ch 1 :
<< The Ministry of Truth -- Minitrue, in Newspeak -- was startlingly
different from any other object in sight. It was an enormous pyramidal
structure of glittering white concrete, soaring up, terrace after terrace,
300 metres into the air. From where Winston stood it was just possible to
read, picked out on its white face in elegant lettering, the three slogans
of the Party: WAR IS PEACE - FREEDOM IS SLAVERY - IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH >>

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

From Part Two - Ch 5 << Often they gave themselves up to daydreams of
escape. Their luck would hold indefinitely, and they would carry on their
intrigue, just like this, for the remainder of their natural lives. Or
Katharine would die, and by subtle manoeuvrings Winston and Julia would
succeed in getting married. Or they would commit suicide together. Or they
would disappear, alter themselves out of recognition, learn to speak with
proletarian accents, get jobs in a factory and live out their lives
undetected in a back-street. It was all nonsense, as they both knew. In
reality there was no escape. Even the one plan that was practicable,
suicide, they had no intention of carrying out. To hang on from day to day
and from week to week, spinning out a present that had no future, seemed an
unconquerable instinct, just as one's lungs will always draw the next breath
so long as there is air available.
Sometimes, too, they talked of engaging in active rebellion against the
Party, but with no notion of how to take the first step. Even if the
fabulous Brotherhood was a reality, there still remained the difficulty of
finding one's way into it. He told her of the strange intimacy that existed,
or seemed to exist, between himself and O'Brien, and of the impulse he
sometimes felt, simply to walk into O'Brien's presence, announce that he was
the enemy of the Party, and demand his help. Curiously enough, this did not
strike her as an impossibly rash thing to do. She was used to judging people
by their faces, and it seemed natural to her that Winston should believe
O'Brien to be trustworthy on the strength of a single flash of the eyes.
Moreover she took it for granted that everyone, or nearly everyone, secretly
hated the Party and would break the rules if he thought it safe to do so.
But she refused to believe that widespread, organized opposition existed or
could exist. The tales about Goldstein and his underground army, she said,
were simply a lot of rubbish which the Party had invented for its own
purposes and which you had to pretend to believe in. Times beyond number, at
Party rallies and spontaneous demonstrations, she had shouted at the top of
her voice for the execution of people whose names she had never heard and in
whose supposed crimes she had not the faintest belief. When public trials
were happening she had taken her place in the detachments from the Youth
League who surrounded the courts from morning to night, chanting at
intervals 'Death to the traitors!' During the Two Minutes Hate she always
excelled all others in shouting insults at Goldstein. Yet she had only the
dimmest idea of who Goldstein was and what doctrines he was supposed to
represent. She had grown up since the Revolution and was too young to
remember the ideological battles of the fifties and sixties. Such a thing as
an independent political movement was outside her imagination: and in any
case the Party was invincible. It would always exist, and it would always be
the same. You could only rebel against it by secret disobedience or, at
most, by isolated acts of violence such as killing somebody or blowing
something up. >>

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

From Part One - Ch 1 :
<< His eyes re-focused on the page. He discovered that while he sat
helplessly musing he had also been writing, as though by automatic action.
And it was no longer the same cramped, awkward handwriting as before. His
pen had slid voluptuously over the smooth paper, printing in large neat
capitals - DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER - DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER - DOWN WITH BIG
BROTHER - DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER - DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER - over and over
again, filling half a page.
He could not help feeling a twinge of panic. It was absurd, since the
writing of those particular words was not more dangerous than the initial
act of opening the diary, but for a moment he was tempted to tear out the
spoiled pages and abandon the enterprise altogether.
He did not do so, however, because he knew that it was useless. Whether he
wrote DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER, or whether he refrained from writing it, made
no difference. Whether he went on with the diary, or whether he did not go
on with it, made no difference. The Thought Police would get him just the
same. He had committed -- would still have committed, even if he had never
set pen to paper -- the essential crime that contained all others in itself.
Thoughtcrime, they called it. Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be
concealed for ever. You might dodge successfully for a while, even for
years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you.
It was always at night -- the arrests invariably happened at night. The
sudden jerk out of sleep, the rough hand shaking your shoulder, the lights
glaring in your eyes, the ring of hard faces round the bed. In the vast
majority of cases there was no trial, no report of the arrest. People simply
disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the
registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your
one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished,
annihilated: vaporized was the usual word.
For a moment he was seized by a kind of hysteria. He began writing in a
hurried untidy scrawl:
-- theyll shoot me i dont care theyll shoot me in the back of the neck i
dont care down with big brother they always shoot you in the back of the
neck i dont care down with big brother --
He sat back in his chair, slightly ashamed of himself, and laid down the
pen. The next moment he started violently. There was a knocking at the door.
Already! He sat as still as a mouse, in the futile hope that whoever it was
might go away after a single attempt. But no, the knocking was repeated. The
worst thing of all would be to delay. His heart was thumping like a drum,
but his face, from long habit, was probably expressionless. He got up and
moved heavily towards the door. >>

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

-----
    >> Air America: The greatest CIA-operation ever !!! <<

Mtravelkay

Dick Locke wrote:

    > On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:57:38 GMT, Chad Irby <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>.and even with that, it's still going to be faster than most customs
    >>checks in 99% of the countries in the world.
    >
    >
    > Say what? The US is one of a few countries that doesn't allow arriving
    > passengers to pick a green lane if they have nothing to declare.

We don't need one. I can't recall ever waiting for Customs. You usually
just hand them the form on the way out.

Mtravelkay

Chad Irby wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:57:38 GMT, Chad Irby <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>...and even with that, it's still going to be faster than most customs
    >>>checks in 99% of the countries in the world.
    >>You don't get out very much do you?
    >
    >
    > I'm sure *you* don't, if you think US Customs and Immigration is bad,
    > compared to most places. Try any of the African nations, for example.
    > Or Russia.

I have never had my finger print or photo taken at Immigration in
Russia, have you??? I am not saying there is no reason for the US to do
it, only that I haven't seen it done in Russia.

Bert Hyman

In news:[email protected] mtravelkay
<[email protected]> wrote:
    > Chad Irby wrote:
    >> In article <[email protected]>,
    >> AJC <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:57:38 GMT, Chad Irby <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>...and even with that, it's still going to be faster than most customs
    >>>>checks in 99% of the countries in the world.
    >>>You don't get out very much do you?
    >>
    >> I'm sure *you* don't, if you think US Customs and Immigration is bad,
    >> compared to most places. Try any of the African nations, for example.
    >> Or Russia.
    >
    > I have never had my finger print or photo taken at Immigration in
    > Russia, have you??? I am not saying there is no reason for the US to do
    > it, only that I haven't seen it done in Russia.

Old habits die hard; they leave the photograph up to the desk clerk at
your hotel, and get your fingerprints off the glass in your bathroom.

    :-)

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN [email protected]

Oelewapper

"Cyrus Afzali" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:08:54 GMT, "Pete"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > If the country in question is part of the US-VISIT program, or
    > whatever it's called, the queues are often much shorter and the
    > screening is done before departure from the country you visited. I
    > just returned from Ireland a few weeks ago and all screening was done
    > in Shannon. The only thing done here was the agricultural
    > questionnaire.

That was a few weeks ago, just wait and see what happens in a couple of
weeks time ... you can always try to give them the finger, like that
AA-pilot at RdJ-GIG a couple of weeks ago ...
Anyway, I hope the EU will impose the same regime on US-folks going through
our airports and seaports - especially aiming at America's "illegal
combatants" as they are shipping their hardware back to the base ... But
that's a completely different story,... or is it ???

Marie Lewis

"Chad Irby" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Sjoerd" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > That's not true. US immigration queues are amongst the longest in the
world.
    > From the number of people, or from the speed of the process?
    > And the funny thing is, the people who are complaining about the US
    > wanting photos and fingerprints to come in are often from countries that
    > already insist on that for their own citizens (like Brazil).
No they are not! They are from Europe and from your "ally" the UK, where
fingerprints denote one's being a suspected criminal.

Marie Lewis

"Chad Irby" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Marie Lewis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Please note that we all have the rest of the world to visit. Why visit
a
    > > country which treats us as criminals?
    > On the other hand, you could always visit Spain, and relax on their
    > nice, safe, high-speed trains. Or the ones in France.

Indeed, I would prefer to do that, although we, in fact, always travel by
car.

Marie Lewis

"Chad Irby" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Wolfgang Schwanke <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Chad Irby <[email protected]> wrote in
    > > news:[email protected]:
    > >
    > > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > > "nobody760" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> So the message is visiting the USA is more trouble than its worth so
    > > >> I'll go some place else.
    > > >
    > > > Yeah, that two minute fingerprinting and photo is *sooo* hard after a
    > > > six-hour plane flight...
    > >
    > > It's not the _time_ it takes which offends people.
    > If people were worried about bureaucratic nosiness, they wouldn't go to
    > most of Europe in the first place.


You show your ignorance.

Oelewapper

"Go Fig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:030420040850279032%[email protected]...

    > What about after some incident, you must agree that fingerprints can be
    > valuable at this point. Clearly they were used in Madrid, as they used
    > discovered prints at that house to ID conspirators.

Ex post : yes, maybe - but only when justified, and within a decent judicial
framework
Ex ante: NEVER !!! Not where I wanna live anyway...

-----
    >> Air America: The greatest CIA-operation ever !!! <<

Marie Lewis

"Chad Irby" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <P%[email protected]>,
    > "Lennart Petersen" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > 99% ? Interesting. I transferred recently in 6 minutes from
International
    > > to domestic including security check. Was in Sandefjord Norway.
    > > How many transfers international-domestic are done in less 6 minutes in
U.S
    > > ?
    > You're taking a very unusual example (EU internal transfers), and
    > pretending that it's common worldwide.
    > Now, *that's* interesting.
Take a look at the previous post.