Marie Lewis

In article <[email protected]>, Keith Willshaw
<[email protected]> writes
-
    >However merely possessing a machine readable passport
    >does not give the US immigration officer access to the UK
    >police national computer system.
    >Keith

Do you have reliable information on this? From where?

--
Marie Lewis

Keith Willshaw

"Marie Lewis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Keith Willshaw
    > <[email protected]> writes
    > -
    > >
    > >However merely possessing a machine readable passport
    > >does not give the US immigration officer access to the UK
    > >police national computer system.
    > >
    > >Keith
    > >
    > >
    > Do you have reliable information on this? From where?

Suffice it to say that the PNC isnt even integrated with the
Schengen Information System as yet let alone US systems.
Knowing how long it took to get the Criminal Records Certificate
system going I wouldnt hold your breath for it happening either.


Interaction with external bodies is carried out by issuing Interpol
notices which are color coded

Red Notices request a subject's provisional arrest with a view toward
extradition. A Red Notice provides specific details concerning charges
against a subject, along with warrant information, and includes prior
criminal history.

Blue Notices are designed to collect information about persons. For example,
to trace and locate a subject whose extradition may be requested.

Yellow Notices are circulated to provide information about persons who are
missing, abducted or who are unable to identify themselves, such as
children.

Green Notices are used to provide warnings and criminal intelligence about
persons who have committed criminal offences, and are likely to repeat these
crimes in other countries.


Such notices WILL appear on the immigration officers terminal
when he scans your machine readable passport.

The fact that you were arrested for D&D in Blackpool in 1993
and released with a caution will not.

http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/...s/FS200105.asp

Keith

Evelynvogtgamble

David Horne wrote:
    >
    > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > And despite warning signals like that, we have American posters here who
    > > mock those of us who express our alarm because we perceive our country
    > > following in the footsteps of 1930's Germany!
    >
    > It's not just some US posters who would mock that view. I think you're
    > on pretty thin ground on this, the current US political situation (which
    > I'm no fan of) notwithstanding.

I hope you're right, but there seem to be an alarming number of
parallels. (Those of us who lived through the "reign" of Joe McCarthy
are perhaps less complacent than our younger countrymen.)


    >
    > David
    >
    > --
    > David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
    > davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

David Horne

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I hope you're right, but there seem to be an alarming number of
    > parallels.

We've been through them before, and I think that on so many issues, the
parallels fall flat.

    > (Those of us who lived through the "reign" of Joe McCarthy
    > are perhaps less complacent than our younger countrymen.)

Except the country recovered from McCarthy-ism without self-destructing.
I'd have thought that would give you confidence in the reslience of the
US, which is so much _more_ than just the crazy policies of a particular
administration. I agree with most who point out the various
idiosyncracies, lunatic policies and other whims of this administration,
and previous ones. But, the idea of a country eerily treading down a
similar path towards that chosen by Nazi Germany just doesn't strike
true to me.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Jenn

In article <1g0mf72.oo7elj16fxve6N%[email protected]>,
[email protected] (David Horne) wrote:

    > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I hope you're right, but there seem to be an alarming number of
    > > parallels.
    >
    > We've been through them before, and I think that on so many issues, the
    > parallels fall flat.
    >
    > > (Those of us who lived through the "reign" of Joe McCarthy
    > > are perhaps less complacent than our younger countrymen.)
    >
    > Except the country recovered from McCarthy-ism without self-destructing.
    > I'd have thought that would give you confidence in the reslience of the
    > US, which is so much _more_ than just the crazy policies of a particular
    > administration. I agree with most who point out the various
    > idiosyncracies, lunatic policies and other whims of this administration,
    > and previous ones. But, the idea of a country eerily treading down a
    > similar path towards that chosen by Nazi Germany just doesn't strike
    > true to me.
    >
    > David

the most ominous trend is the GOP attempts to undermine the election
process -- the recall in California being the most recent example as
well as the out of time redistricting in Texas

Go Fig

In article <[email protected]>,
Jenn <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <1g0mf72.oo7elj16fxve6N%[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] (David Horne) wrote:
    >
    > > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > I hope you're right, but there seem to be an alarming number of
    > > > parallels.
    > >
    > > We've been through them before, and I think that on so many issues, the
    > > parallels fall flat.
    > >
    > > > (Those of us who lived through the "reign" of Joe McCarthy
    > > > are perhaps less complacent than our younger countrymen.)
    > >
    > > Except the country recovered from McCarthy-ism without self-destructing.
    > > I'd have thought that would give you confidence in the reslience of the
    > > US, which is so much _more_ than just the crazy policies of a particular
    > > administration. I agree with most who point out the various
    > > idiosyncracies, lunatic policies and other whims of this administration,
    > > and previous ones. But, the idea of a country eerily treading down a
    > > similar path towards that chosen by Nazi Germany just doesn't strike
    > > true to me.
    > >
    > > David
    >
    > the most ominous trend is the GOP attempts to undermine the election
    > process -- the recall in California being the most recent example

How do you reconcile the 40% of Dems. that are in favor of the recall?

Moreover, this is Calif. Law for almost 100 years. The recall has been
attempted 31 times in its history. Only now has the level of
dissatisfaction risen to the recall vote.

What is so wrong with the will of the people being able to recall their
chief official ?


    > as well as the out of time redistricting in Texas

Or the courts trying to do it in the first place, it is the sole right
of the TX legislators to redistrict when they please. Change the law.

jay
Mon, Sep 1, 2003
mailto:[email protected]

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

David Horne

Jenn <[email protected]> wrote:

    > the most ominous trend is the GOP attempts to undermine the election
    > process -- the recall in California being the most recent example as
    > well as the out of time redistricting in Texas

What you're talking about has happened plenty of times before, and it's
not just a Republican phenomenon.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Marvin

David wrote:

    >Except the country recovered from McCarthy-ism without self-destructing.
    >I'd have thought that would give you confidence in the reslience of the
    >US, which is so much _more_ than just the crazy policies of a particular
    >administration. I agree with most who point out the various
    >idiosyncracies, lunatic policies and other whims of this administration,
    >and previous ones. But, the idea of a country eerily treading down a
    >similar path towards that chosen by Nazi Germany just doesn't strike
    >true to me.

Best statement I have seen about the US in this thread. This country, and
the rest of the world, will survive; and we all will make a difference. My
wife and I did not wish to see Bush as President, nor did we want the US
going into Iraq [or anywhere else] without a UN mandate. At this point, all
this is in the past; and we need to move on to what can be done to resolve
the situation here and in Iraq. Personally, I would rather talk about
travel; but this group can't seem to get past the America this Europe that
crap.

Marvin & Sue

Jenn

In article <1g0mk91.1tjnprenia5v0N%[email protected]>,
[email protected] (David Horne) wrote:

    > Jenn <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > the most ominous trend is the GOP attempts to undermine the election
    > > process -- the recall in California being the most recent example as
    > > well as the out of time redistricting in Texas
    >
    > What you're talking about has happened plenty of times before, and it's
    > not just a Republican phenomenon.
    >
    > David


throughout history of this country [the US] a basic principle has been
orderly succession through elections. When money buys continues
harrassment of people elected and prevents their governing, then
democracy is being destroyed. There is no excuse for trying to overturn
an election a year ago in California. There was no excuse for the
impeachment mission against Clinton. There is no excuse for trying to
drop norms for legislative majority long used in Texas to try to bully
through a redistricting plan 5 years early in order to cement in place
the current GOP majority.

All of these are violations of the spirit of orderly democratic
government.

if you can't ever win without being harrassed immediately by recall
efforts of the well funded then the GOP rule for government is -- it is
never over until we win and if you win, you don't get to govern.

This is not to deny the right of opposition to oppose policy and vote
against it -- but attempt to prevent the orderly election process are
pernicious.

Of course when an administration begins by having a biased court hand
them the presidency in a partisan decision, that does set the tone.

Johnt

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > David Horne wrote:
    > >
    > > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > And despite warning signals like that, we have American posters
here who
    > > > mock those of us who express our alarm because we perceive our
country
    > > > following in the footsteps of 1930's Germany!
    > >
    > > It's not just some US posters who would mock that view. I think
you're
    > > on pretty thin ground on this, the current US political situation
(which
    > > I'm no fan of) notwithstanding.
    > I hope you're right, but there seem to be an alarming number of
    > parallels. (Those of us who lived through the "reign" of Joe McCarthy
    > are perhaps less complacent than our younger countrymen.)
I first visited the USA during the "reign" of the Junior Senator from
Wisconsin and what struck me more than anything was that "middle
America" supported him so much. But this was at the height of the Cold
War and Joe got his comeuppance from Edward R Murrow. I also lived
through World War II and, to my mind, anyone who compares the present US
Political regime to that of Hitler or Stalin is naive beyond belief.

JohnT

Johnt

"marvin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > David wrote:
    > >Except the country recovered from McCarthy-ism without
self-destructing.
    > >I'd have thought that would give you confidence in the reslience of
the
    > >US, which is so much _more_ than just the crazy policies of a
particular
    > >administration. I agree with most who point out the various
    > >idiosyncracies, lunatic policies and other whims of this
administration,
    > >and previous ones. But, the idea of a country eerily treading down a
    > >similar path towards that chosen by Nazi Germany just doesn't strike
    > >true to me.
    > Best statement I have seen about the US in this thread. This country,
and
    > the rest of the world, will survive; and we all will make a
difference. My
    > wife and I did not wish to see Bush as President, nor did we want the
US
    > going into Iraq [or anywhere else] without a UN mandate. At this
point, all
    > this is in the past; and we need to move on to what can be done to
resolve
    > the situation here and in Iraq. Personally, I would rather talk about
    > travel; but this group can't seem to get past the America this Europe
that
    > crap.
    > Marvin & Sue
I agree totally with Marvin and Sue. Can we please get back to
discussing travel in and to Europe in this newsgroup!

JohnT

Ulf Kutzner

JohnT schrieb:
    >
    > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > JohnT wrote:
    > > >
    > >
    > > > And, before la Diva Manqué makes some Political comment about that,
    > it
    > > > is not a new Policy. Similarly, the EU is not anxious to admit
    > without
    > > > Visa anyone from outside its domains who has a Criminal record. And
    > it
    > > > is always unwise to believe everything one reads in the newspapers,
    > > > either in the USA or here in the UK.
    > >
    > > Is it "political" to doubt whether arrest records involving
    > drunkenness
    > > or parking violations on the part of foreign visitors are likely to be
    > > investigated, however paranoid our government may be perceived to be?
    > > Where would you suggest they find the manpower for such frivolous
    > > pursuits, even were they so-minded? (One likes to believe that SOME
    > of
    > > our government retains at least a MODICUM of common sense!)
    > >
    > Parking Violations are not criminal offences, at least within the UK.
Speeding might be, at least in the U.S.

However, having committed "minor traccif delicts" shouldn't be a reason
for denial of entry.

Regards, ULF

Keith Willshaw

"Ulf Kutzner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > JohnT schrieb:

    > > Parking Violations are not criminal offences, at least within the UK.
    > Speeding might be, at least in the U.S.
    > However, having committed "minor traccif delicts" shouldn't be a reason
    > for denial of entry.

And is not as the US authorities make clear.

Their declaration form for those applying for a visa because
of past criminal offenses uses the wording.

"If you have been arrested or summoned for, charged with, indicted for, or
convicted of a crime or
other offence, please give full details including date, place and nature of
offence. Exclude only
minor traffic offenses where no injury occurred."

Keith

Marie Lewis

In article <[email protected]>, Keith Willshaw
<[email protected]> writes
    >Their declaration form for those applying for a visa because
    >of past criminal offenses uses the wording.
    >"If you have been arrested or summoned for, charged with, indicted for, or
    >convicted of a crime or
    >other offence, please give full details including date, place and nature of
    >offence. Exclude only
    >minor traffic offenses where no injury occurred."


Were we not writing of entry on the visa waiver scheme, rather than with
a visa?
--
Marie Lewis

Keith Willshaw

"Marie Lewis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Keith Willshaw
    > <[email protected]> writes
    > >Their declaration form for those applying for a visa because
    > >of past criminal offenses uses the wording.
    > >
    > >"If you have been arrested or summoned for, charged with, indicted for,
or
    > >convicted of a crime or
    > >other offence, please give full details including date, place and nature
of
    > >offence. Exclude only
    > >minor traffic offenses where no injury occurred."
    > Were we not writing of entry on the visa waiver scheme, rather than with
    > a visa?
    > --
    > Marie Lewis

This is the form for those who arent applicable
for the waiver scheme because of a past criminal record

They are explicitly telling you to ignore such offences.

Keith