Coastline Cafe

"Wolfgang Schwanke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
    > "JohnT" <[email protected]> wrote in news:bipmv0$c0qtq$1@ID-
    > 148874.news.uni-berlin.de:
    > > An arrest involving drunken-ness (for example) would be known to the US
    > > Immigration Officer.
    > How would they get at the data from a foreign country?

This is something I'm not clear about at all - I'm not sure, unless I
actually declare it on a Visa application to the USA that they would ever
have a clue about it - and i'd simply enter on the visa waiver programme.
The Police and court in the UK simply have my name, my slightly mis-spelled
address (and first half of postcode), age, occupation, and place of birth
(unfortunately a very uncommon place of birth, not like London or
somewhere). The police also have my DNA from a mouth swab and fingerprints.
Do they really share all this information with interpol/other worldwide
police authorities?? And... seeing as I will be leaving the address I gave,
and was charged and prosecuted on, and actually going back to an address I
used to live it, where I have no record for drunkenness or anything at all,
an address which the police obviously don't know about in relation to my
arrested offence - and as the police didn't have access to either my
passport (which is not registered to the temporary address I was charged
under) nor driving licence or anything like that

- I'm honestly not sure how I could possibly be tied to being the same
person if I tried entering the USA via the visa waiver programme. UNLESS-
they for some reason had reason to suspect me, and took fingerprints, and if
the fingerprints are shared (they were taken electronically scanned) between
the UK and USA, then I be up the creek without a paddle. And that's a risk I
simply do not want to take if they do indeed share that information - so
better safe than sorry, I shall have to make a visa application before
visiting the USA.

Jan

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
    > Coastline Cafe wrote:
    >> "Keith Willshaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> Nay problem old son
    >>> I know a good many people with far worse than that who
    >>> have visted Spain.
    >> Thanks. It's been an impossible task trying to get a straight answer
    >> from anywhere official today. I'm just glad I didn't book a holiday
    >> to the USA, in which case I'd be in quite a pickle, or more
    >> accurately several hundred pounds down, with a very much reduced
    >> chance of either being able to get a visa at all, or even within the
    >> time frame required. Thank goodness a trip to Spain is unaffected!
    > I really wonder why you'd even consider MENTIONING it to U.S.
    > officials! Do you actually think they'd care that much, or have the
    > time to dig into the background of every single innocuous-appearing
    > tourist who enters the country, searching for records of arrests for
    > minor infractions? (Obviously, this has been quite a blow to your
    > self-esteem - which speaks well for your normal behaviour - but I
    > honestly think you are inflating it out of all proportion to the
    > actual offense, or its long-term consequences.)

They obviously do dig into peoples backgrounds, as a Top Dutch footballer
was denied entry not long ago. I'm sure someone can enlighten usto his
"record".. Can't remember what he'd actually done but he didn't believe it
warranted a mention.
Jan


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 28/08/03

Sjoerd

"Jan" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > They obviously do dig into peoples backgrounds, as a Top Dutch footballer
    > was denied entry not long ago. I'm sure someone can enlighten usto his
    > "record".. Can't remember what he'd actually done but he didn't believe it
    > warranted a mention.

Patrick Kluivert killed a man while driving a car when he was drunk.

Sjoerd

Jan

Sjoerd wrote:
    > "Jan" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> They obviously do dig into peoples backgrounds, as a Top Dutch
    >> footballer was denied entry not long ago. I'm sure someone can
    >> enlighten usto his "record".. Can't remember what he'd actually
    >> done but he didn't believe it warranted a mention.
    > Patrick Kluivert killed a man while driving a car when he was drunk.
    > Sjoerd

Bad example !! I thought it was some minor driving charge.
.. how on earth did he think that wouldn't be known to the immigration
people??
Jan


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 28/08/03

Sjoerd

"Jan" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > Sjoerd wrote:
    > > "Jan" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >>
    > >> They obviously do dig into peoples backgrounds, as a Top Dutch
    > >> footballer was denied entry not long ago. I'm sure someone can
    > >> enlighten usto his "record".. Can't remember what he'd actually
    > >> done but he didn't believe it warranted a mention.
    > >
    > > Patrick Kluivert killed a man while driving a car when he was drunk.
    > >
    > > Sjoerd
    > Bad example !! I thought it was some minor driving charge.
    > .. how on earth did he think that wouldn't be known to the immigration
    > people??

He probably just didn't know about the new US rule. How many footballers are
US immigration specialists? :-) He was sent back to Europe, got a visa the
next day and travelled to the US to join his team.

Sjoerd

David Horne

Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote:

    > He was sent back to Europe, got a visa the
    > next day and travelled to the US to join his team.

I genuinely wonder what the chances of a non-personality (if "football
personality" isn't an oxymoron!) getting a US visa for committing this
type of crime would be?

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Tmoliver

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> vented spleen or
mostly mumbled...


    >
    > Is it "political" to doubt whether arrest records involving drunkenness
    > or parking violations on the part of foreign visitors are likely to be
    > investigated, however paranoid our government may be perceived to be?
    > Where would you suggest they find the manpower for such frivolous
    > pursuits, even were they so-minded? (One likes to believe that SOME of
    > our government retains at least a MODICUM of common sense!)
    >
    >
....Back in a far more enlightened era, 1961, application for entry into
any of the US military services programs which lead to an officer's
commission required a listing of all arrests and criminal charges as well
as traffic tickets (although parking violations were excluded). Each such
incident was investigated as part of the normal security checks and even an
overnight jail stay, Drunk & Disorderly, or a fine for "Minor in
Possession" could prevent commissioning.

I guess RFK must have been the John Ashcroft of his day....

Lennart Petersen

"David Horne" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:1g0ie02.nip9qb1owocv4N%[email protected]...
    > Sjoerd <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > He was sent back to Europe, got a visa the
    > > next day and travelled to the US to join his team.
    > I genuinely wonder what the chances of a non-personality (if "football
    > personality" isn't an oxymoron!) getting a US visa for committing this
    > type of crime would be?
    > David
I've no idea but at least to get a US visa here in Sweden involves two
months waiting and then you have to travel to the US embassy in Stockholm
for a personal interview.
The visa charge then is USD100.
A well-known journalist from here was denied transfer enroute to Tahiti but
managed to be expelled to Tahiti (!) and on the return he managed to be
expelled to EU (!)

Derek F

"Coastline Cafe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:dj%[email protected]...
    > "Sjoerd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > When you arrive in Spain with a British passport, they will have a very
    > > quick look at your picture and wave you through.Citizens of any EU
    > countries
    > > have the *right* to travel to other EU countries (with very few
    > exceptions
    > > and having been drunk (who hasn't?) is not one of them) so no worries
    > > whatsoever.
    > Thanks, I've entered several EU countries before without even having my
    > passport checked- I was just wishing to establish what the case was if
they
    > actually did do a thorough examination of me/my past.
When entering Portugal once before the scannable passports came out the
officer entered my surname on his computer
and a list of names came which did not include mine.
Derek.

Miguel Cruz

Lennart Petersen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > A well-known journalist from here was denied transfer enroute to Tahiti but
    > managed to be expelled to Tahiti (!) and on the return he managed to be
    > expelled to EU (!)

At whose expense? He may be onto something here. Commit a crime and travel
the world for the price one a one-way-ticket to the USA!

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Blatt

"Coastline Cafe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
...

    > I am a UK citizen. I have managed to pick myself up a conditional discharge
    > for being Drunk & Disorderly in a UK court. My own stupid fault, I simply
    > drank too much and threw up in the street. Unfortunately, in sight of a
    > police officer. As there was no malice or aggressive disorder, I received no
    > fine, merely the conditional discharge, the minimum the magistrate could
    > hand down.


    > Any help/pointers appreciated. An hour trawling google web and google groups
    > has produced nothing that's actually helped me with regard to the situation
    > over visiting Spain. And I don't particularly want to have to traipse to the
    > Spanish Embassay, nor purely rely on the advice of Thomas Cook who say I'll
    > have no problems entering or leaving Spain so long as I don't get in any
    > trouble over there!

The answser is at http://www.curia.eu.int/en/

A series of cases, notably including Case 157/79, R v. Pieck, [1979]
ECR 2171, hold that criminal conviction that does not represent a
serious threat to public security cannot be a bar to the right of
every EU citizen to establishment, employment, etc. in another member
state.

Evelynvogtgamble

Marie Lewis wrote:
    >
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> writes
    > >I really wonder why you'd even consider MENTIONING it to U.S.
    > >officials! Do you actually think they'd care that much, or have the
    > >time to dig into the background of every single innocuous-appearing
    > >tourist who enters the country, searching for records of arrests for
    > >minor infractions?
    >
    > It will come up on the immigration officers' computers. This is very
    > new legislation.

And despite warning signals like that, we have American posters here who
mock those of us who express our alarm because we perceive our country
following in the footsteps of 1930's Germany!

Evelynvogtgamble

Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
    >
    > Marie Lewis <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> writes
    > >>I really wonder why you'd even consider MENTIONING it to U.S.
    > >>officials! Do you actually think they'd care that much, or have the
    > >>time to dig into the background of every single innocuous-appearing
    > >>tourist who enters the country, searching for records of arrests for
    > >>minor infractions?
    > >
    > >
    > > It will come up on the immigration officers' computers. This is very
    > > new legislation.
    >
    > The US immigration computers have data from UK court records? I doubt it.

I sincerely hope you're right! What are the chances of an elderly
American on a "fixed income" being allowed to immigrate to Vienna, even
if she doesn't speak the language? (For some time I've been
half-seriously talking about doing so - maybe I should actually consider
it, since I CERTAINLY don't like what's happening in my own country,
these days.)

Evelynvogtgamble

Coastline Cafe wrote:
    >
    > "Wolfgang Schwanke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > The US immigration computers have data from UK court records? I doubt it.
    >
    > That's what I kind of intially thought - but the USA won't even allow
    > someone who's been arrested at ANY point in their life to enter via the
    > visa waiver programme now.

I still say "Why TELL them?" However sophisticated computers have
become, how could they POSSIBLY have that kind of data instantly
available for every single visitor from every single country in the
world? (And, more to the point, why should they CARE?) One of the
first things recruits to any army in the world learn is "never
volunteer" - IMO that goes for "volunteering" irrelevant information,
too.

Lennart Petersen

"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > Lennart Petersen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > A well-known journalist from here was denied transfer enroute to Tahiti
but
    > > managed to be expelled to Tahiti (!) and on the return he managed to be
    > > expelled to EU (!)
    > At whose expense?
Generally the carrier have to pay if there's a problem

He may be onto something here. Commit a crime and travel
    > the world for the price one a one-way-ticket to the USA!
    > miguel
AFAIK he had a through ticket both ways to be used and he followed exactly
the way he wanted.
One way ticket and being expelled could work but generally I think o.w is
more expensive than r.t and the airlines are probably reluctant to allow non
US citizens on a one-way ticket to US ,or elsewhere where they have to pay
hefty fines for carrying not so wanted passengers.
As for US the airlines may be fined from $1000-$3000.

Long boring text...................:
TIMATIC-2 / 30AUG03 / 2108 UTC
NATIONAL SWEDEN (SE) /EMBARKATION SWEDEN (SE)
DESTINATION U.S.A. (US)

VISA DESTINATION U.S.A. (US)

...... NORMAL PASSPORTS ONLY ......
PASSPORT REQUIRED (MUST BE VALID AT TIME OF ENTRY- PASSENGER
MAY BE AUTHORIZED TO STAY UP TO 6 MONTHS BEYOND THE EXPIRY DATE
OF THE PASSPORT- FOR VALIDITY SEE: >More Information - ITEM 2
).

VISA NOT REQUIRED IF TRAVELLING UNDER THE U.S. VISA WAIVER
PERMANENT PROGRAM AND FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET:

PASSENGER:
- EFFECTIVE OCTOBER 1, 2003: HOLDS MACHINE-READABLE PASSPORT
(MRP) (ISSUED FOR EACH ACCOMPANYING FAMILY MEMBER, INCLUDING
INFANTS)- AND
- TRAVELS FOR HOLIDAY OR BUSINESS PURPOSES ONLY- AND
- WILL STAY UP TO 90 DAYS OR LESS (SEE NOTE BELOW)- AND
- ARRIVES ON A CARRIER THAT HAS SIGNED AGREEMENT I-775
WITH THE U.S. IMMIGRATION (SEE: >More Information FOR
A FULL LIST)- AND
- HOLDS A SIGNED FORM I-94W (VISA WAIVER ARRIVAL/DEPARTURE
FORM ISSUED EITHER BY A CARRIER HAVING SIGNED THE AGREEMENT
I-775 OR BY A TRAVEL AGENCY)- A SEPARATE FORM MUST BE
FILLED IN FOR EACH CHILD INCLUDED IN PARENTS PASSPORT- AND
- HOLDS ONWARD/RETURN TICKET (OR ELECTRONIC TICKET RECORD OR
RETURN PASSAGES) WITH A FINAL DESTINATION TO A COUNTRY OTHER
THAN CANADA, MEXICO OR COUNTRIES/ISLANDS SITUATED IN OR
BORDERING THE CARIBBEAN SEA, UNLESS PASSENGER HOLDS PROOF OF
RESIDENCE IN SUCH COUNTRY/ISLANDS IN WHICH CASE ONWARD/RETURN
TICKET TO THAT COUNTRY ACCEPTED. TICKET VALIDITY IS
CONSIDERED 1 YEAR REGARDLESS OF FARE TYPE- AND
- IS A NON-IMMIGRANT- AND
- WAIVES THE RIGHT TO PROTEST ANY ACTION FOR DEPORTATION.

DEPORTATION WILL FOLLOW IF IMMIGRATION OFFICER DETERMINES THAT
PASSENGER IS INADMISSIBLE.
PASSENGER CAN MAKE SIDE TRIPS TO CANADA, MEXICO OR CARIBBEAN
COUNTRIES/ISLANDS PROVIDED FIRST ENTERING THE U.S.A. ON A
CARRIER PARTICIPATING IN THE V.W.P.P. AND PROVIDED ALL OTHER
CONDITIONS OF THE V.W.P.P. ARE MET.
TOTAL STAY IN THE U.S.A. NOT TO EXCEED 90 DAYS. NO ADDITIONAL
TIME IS GIVEN (EXTENSION) BASED ON THE DEPARTURE TO CONTIGUOUS
TERRITORY. PASSENGER IS ADMITTED FOR UP TO A 90-DAY PERIOD AND
A SPECIFIC DATE OF DEPARTURE IS GIVEN ON THE FORM I-94.

- IF COMING DIRECTLY FROM GUAM OR VIRGIN ISL: PRE-INSPECTION BY
THE USA CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION (CBP) WILL HAVE TAKEN
PLACE PRIOR TO EMBARKATION, WHEN PASSENGERS ARE REQUIRED TO
PROVIDE PROOF OF THEIR LEGAL RIGHT TO ENTER THE U.S.A.
IF COMING DIRECTLY FROM PUERTO RICO: PRE-INSPECTION MAY TAKE
PLACE BY CBP PRIOR TO EMBARKATION, WHEN PASSENGERS ARE
REQUIRED TO PROVIDE THEIR DOCUMENTS AND PROOF OF THEIR LEGAL
RIGHT TO ENTER U.S.A.-
- IF NOT HOLDING TICKETS AND DOCUMENTS REQUIRED FOR RETURN/
ONWARD DESTINATION ENTRY MAY BE REFUSED AND DEPORTATION
MAY FOLLOW. THIS DEPENDS ON THE IMMIGRATION AUTHORITIES-
- NON-COMPLIANCE WITH ENTRY REQUIREMENTS RESULT IN FINES
VARYING BETWEEN USD 2,000 AND USD 3,000 PER PASSENGER
AND EITHER DEPORTATION OR INDEFINITE DELAY FOR PASSENGER
AT POINT OF ENTRY (DETENTION COSTS AT CARRIERS EXPENSE)-
- FINES FOR INCOMPLETE/INACCURATE FORM I-94, I-94T OR I-94W
ARE USD 1,000.- PER PASSENGER-
- FOR VALID VISAS IN AN EXPIRED PASSPORT, SEE >More Information - ITEM 10-
- MINORS: FOR SPECIFIC INFORMATION SEE: >More Information -
ITEM 11 AND >More Information - ITEMS 2, 3 AND 4.