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Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

Old Aug 28th 2002, 7:21 am
  #16  
Danie Palm
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:06:48 +0100, Liz <[email protected]> wrote:


    >Despite the fact that Dries has been spamming the group for years, he hasn't learned
    >how to send an email without heaps of 'garbage' coming through, or how to send one
    >without attachments.
    >I have him killfiled.
    >:-)
    >Liz

I'm itching to do that but neither can I resist a good fight so I'll wait a
little while!

Cheers, Danie.

Danie Palm - South Africa Disability is not inability but a challenge
 
Old Aug 28th 2002, 12:19 pm
  #17  
Eileen Nelson
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

I am going to be staying there for a ciuple of nights during my overland tour. The
other posting don't seem to say whether or not there are specific areas to avoid. I
know all cities have them, including mine, I would just like to be fore warned. Also
can you recommend any hotels for a couple of nights that do not require advance
notice? "Marc Lurie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
.co.za
...
    > OK, perhaps the word "Garbage" is a bit loaded and unnecesary, I was just reacting
    > to the many postings made by Dries which were unashamed attempts at advertising.
    > What is definitely "garbage" is the asertion by Dries that Johannesburg is not
    > safe, even during the day. Sure, it's not the safest city in the world, but it's
    > certainly safe enough to visit or to live in.
    > Marc - Johannesburg.
    > On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:12:19 GMT, [email protected] (Marc Lurie) wrote:
    > >Dries,
    > >
    > >Do me a favour, and stop peddling your garbage on this newsgroup. People here
    > >want, and need, responsible, solid advice and ask questions because they seek
    > >answers that are truthful and knowlegable. Your recent postings do nothing useful
    > >to inform about any aspect of rec.travel.africa, and I suggest you reserve most of
    > >them for other outlets who appreciate blatant advertising.
    > >
    > >Regards, Marc - Johhannesurg
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:03:51 +0200, Dries <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
    > >>--------------710B4E39EE3E3920B557B7DD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
    > >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    > >>
    > >>Yes, it is true. The causes for the criminality in South Africa is complex.
    > >>There are however better places to be in South Africa than Johannesburg. Maybe
    > >>you can have a look at our site at http://www.cybertonature.co.za/sitemap.html for safety tips and other
    > >>options.
    > >>
    > >>Lindsay Brinkmeyer wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>> We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime
in
    > >>> Johannesburg. Is this true & why. Thanks
    > >>--------------710B4E39EE3E3920B557B7DD Content-Type: text/x-vcard;
    > >>charset=us-ascii; name="info.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    > >>Content-Description: Card for Dries Content-Disposition: attachment;
    > >>filename="info.vcf"
    > >>
    > >>begin:vcard
    > >>n:Velthuizen;Dries tel;cell:+27826844359 tel;work:012 5673279 (after hours)
    > >> x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.cybertonature.co.za org:Cybertonature
    > >> Travel Services;General Manager version:2.1
    > >> email;internet:[email protected] noteries Velthuizen is a strategic
    > >> knowledge manager and part-time
general manager/owner of Cybertonature Travel Services CC
    > >>adr;quoted-printable:;;Wonderboom=0D=0APretoria=0D=0AGauteng= 0D=0ASouth
Africa;;;;
    > >>end:vcard
    > >>
    > >>--------------710B4E39EE3E3920B557B7DD--
    > >>
    > >
 
Old Aug 29th 2002, 7:33 am
  #18  
Danie Palm
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:19:38 GMT, "Eileen Nelson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >I am going to be staying there for a ciuple of nights during my overland tour. The
    >other posting don't seem to say whether or not there are specific areas to avoid. I
    >know all cities have them, including mine, I would just like to be fore warned.
    >Also can you recommend any hotels for a couple of nights that do not require
    >advance notice?

snip

As you said, every city or town has places to avoid.

Which doesn't mean that the entire city or town has to be avoided as was suggested in
some previous posts.

As far as Joburg is concerned my penny's worth would be to stay away from Hillbrow,
it has become very run down.

Perhaps Marc, being a resident of Johannesburg, would be able to give you some more
pointers, it's been a while since I lived there.

Danie Palm - South Africa Disability is not inability but a challenge
 
Old Aug 29th 2002, 12:41 pm
  #19  
Raffi Balmanoukian
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

in article [email protected], Danie Palm at [email protected]
wrote on 8/29/02 4:33 PM:

    > On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:19:38 GMT, "Eileen Nelson"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> I am going to be staying there for a ciuple of nights during my overland tour. The
    >> other posting don't seem to say whether or not there are specific areas to avoid.
    >> I know all cities have them, including mine, I would just like to be fore warned.
    >> Also can you recommend any hotels for a couple of nights that do not require
    >> advance notice?
    > snip
    > As you said, every city or town has places to avoid.
    > Which doesn't mean that the entire city or town has to be avoided as was suggested
    > in some previous posts.
    > As far as Joburg is concerned my penny's worth would be to stay away from Hillbrow,
    > it has become very run down.
    > Perhaps Marc, being a resident of Johannesburg, would be able to give you some more
    > pointers, it's been a while since I lived there.

Agreed on Hillbrow. I also understand the "areas" can shift from time to time and
what's OK one year can be "not on" the next. I hate to say it, but colour also plays
a role. Some areas are OK by day, others not. Some if you're white, others if your
black, yet others for any race and some for no race. Ironic, but true.

One of my most vivid memories of S. Afr. was arriving at the Rotunda station at dawn
after crossing down from Zim. A friend and her fiance picked me up
- he's ex-SAPS and a big boy who could very obviously take care of himself. I
collapsed, half-asleep, in their car and the next thing I saw was a hand slamming
the lock in front of my head and rolling up the window. And then the gentlest tap
on the shoulder, reminding me "you're not in Nova Scotia, we do things a bit
differently here." Then they scooted like hell to get out of downtown before it
hit the fan.

AS with most parts of the world, seek and heed local advice.
 
Old Aug 30th 2002, 5:37 am
  #20  
Danie Palm
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:41:35 GMT, Raffi Balmanoukian
<[email protected] a> wrote:

snip

    >Agreed on Hillbrow. I also understand the "areas" can shift from time to time and
    >what's OK one year can be "not on" the next. I hate to say it, but colour also
    >plays a role.

On the one hand it's rather funny, on the other hand rather tragic, how you'll see
comments like "Advisable to go in groups" or "Don't go on your own, you'll get lost"
on brochures and websites when they talk about tourism attractions in certain areas.

Actually the "areas that can shift" you're talking about above don't "shift"
but expand.

snip

    >AS with most parts of the world, seek and heed local advice.

Now there's some good advice. I'll be using that a lot in future!

Danie Palm - South Africa Disability is not inability but a challenge
 
Old Aug 30th 2002, 10:57 am
  #21  
Shannon
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

Originally posted by Lindsay Brinkme:
We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime in
Johannesburg. Is this true & why. Thanks
I grew up in South Africa and have been to Joburg many times. Much of my family still lives there.

There are crime problems but nothing that would prevent me from being in public places in the daytime. I take the usual precautions when travelling - no visible valuables, keep money concealed, give it away if someone demands it in a threatening way, leave passport at the hotel - and I would never walk at night.

Other than that, Joburg has many wonderful places to visit. Its the biggest city in South africa. Down the far end of Diagonal STreet, downtown, there is a distric of witchdoctors and fabric shops where you can get wonderful kikoi's and sarongs imported from all over africa. Also, the street markets advertised in the paper are wonderful - masks and textiles and boerewors

Enjoy, with caution.

Shannon
 
Old Aug 31st 2002, 1:50 am
  #22  
Randy Pavatte
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Default Re: Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

I've been reading these postings with great interest. I have a somewhat different
perspective to offer, as I am an American who stayed in Johannesburg for 2 weeks
visiting a friend. I'm sorry I cannot be precise now about areas of town, because
it's been since January of 2000 that I was there. However, my friend was a life-long
resident, and as I was shown around she told me many of the same things I see posted
here....areas that are more crime-prone, not to be out at night alone, ect. In fact,
she and I compared the situations of her town and mine, and found no real
differences. The important thing to keep in mind, in my opinion, is to obey the laws
of common sense. Use the same safety precautions abroad you'd use anytime you're in
an unfamiliar place, and always make safety your priority. I managed to have a
wonderful experience in both Johannesburg and Capetown while I was there, and will
forever have fond memories.

Randy

"Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end." Semisonic
 
Old Aug 31st 2002, 6:58 am
  #23  
Raffi Balmanoukian
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

in article [email protected], Danie Palm at [email protected]
wrote on 8/30/02 2:37 PM:

    > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:41:35 GMT, Raffi Balmanoukian
    > <[email protected] a> wrote:
    > snip
    >> Agreed on Hillbrow. I also understand the "areas" can shift from time to time and
    >> what's OK one year can be "not on" the next. I hate to say it, but colour also
    >> plays a role.
    > On the one hand it's rather funny, on the other hand rather tragic, how you'll see
    > comments like "Advisable to go in groups" or "Don't go on your own, you'll get
    > lost" on brochures and websites when they talk about tourism attractions in
    > certain areas.

One hostel advertised "we'll pick you up, seven minutes from JNB airport unless our
car has been stolen!"
 
Old Aug 31st 2002, 9:05 am
  #24  
Liz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

In message <[email protected]>
[email protected] (randy pavatte) wrote:

    > I've been reading these postings with great interest. I have a somewhat different
    > perspective to offer, as I am an American who stayed in Johannesburg for 2 weeks
    > visiting a friend.

[snip]
    > In fact, she and I compared the situations of her town and mine, and found no real
    > differences. The important thing to keep in mind, in my opinion, is to obey the
    > laws of common sense. Use the same safety precautions abroad you'd use anytime
    > you're in an unfamiliar place, and always make safety your priority.

[snip] Yes - I'm getting the same sort of advice about my approaching mini-break in
NYC, and I'm sure lots of US citizens would laugh at what I'm hearing.

Liz

--
Virtual Liz at http://www.v-liz.co.uk Safaris
(Kenya and Tanzania); NEW: Kenya 2002 'rushes' now up "I speak of Africa and
golden joys"
 
Old Sep 2nd 2002, 12:59 am
  #25  
Raffi Balmanoukian
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Johannesburg - is it unsafe .

in article [email protected], Liz at [email protected] wrote on
8/31/02 6:05 PM:

    > In message <[email protected]>
    > [email protected] (randy pavatte) wrote:
    >> I've been reading these postings with great interest. I have a somewhat different
    >> perspective to offer, as I am an American who stayed in Johannesburg for 2 weeks
    >> visiting a friend.
    > [snip]
    >> In fact, she and I compared the situations of her town and mine, and found no real
    >> differences. The important thing to keep in mind, in my opinion, is to obey the
    >> laws of common sense. Use the same safety precautions abroad you'd use anytime
    >> you're in an unfamiliar place, and always make safety your priority.
    > [snip] Yes - I'm getting the same sort of advice about my approaching mini-break in
    > NYC, and I'm sure lots of US citizens would laugh at what I'm hearing.
    > Liz


Depends what you're hearing. Just like you can get tours of Soweto, NYC has Harlem
tours - it doesn't mean it's a good idea to go wandering around with your Nikon and
Rolex at night while separating your sterling, dollars and rand in your wallet.

In New Orleans, I was given a map by the concierge - "now when you get to this
corner, turn left. Do NOT turn right." The "safety area" was THAT clearly
demarcated. Yeesh.
 

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