scapetown

Gosh I can imagine, maybe our new thinking of coming in January will be the answer then just before Brexit and cooler weather, if we can sell up here mid year we can move back to the UK and travel from there to PT for recee as I am still not sure as to what area will appeal to us, am definitely thinking of Algarve west coast, but have heard as far as Lagos is very windy but then having lived in Cape Town for 30yrs god know I am used to the wind, but it would be nice to get away from it, thought maybe Portimao or Carvoeiro, any suggestions?

Ukkram

Get away from the wind? No problem here. We were on code red alert last week because wind at the coast was to be 58 km/hr!!! That is a slight breeze for CT and people go yachting when it is 120 km/hr.

As to location all I can say is - Don't go north of Porto as it will be very lonely if you don't speak Portuguese.

If you have any tax queries such as SA Exit Tax and PT vs SA then just ask me as I have been through the mill.

scapetown

That is so funny about the wind, maybe we could make Lagos work then, I am used to playing tennis in a south easter so 58km/hr would be a walk in the park.
Sounds as if you have been through the mill from previous posts so I might just be in touch to get some advise from someone who now knows how both systems work.
Thanks again

scapetown

How about coming to PT in Nov on a recee, buying a property for "investment" to rent out then returning in January and applying for residency as we have "now decided to live in PT permanently"?
Also UKKram when you left SA did you formally emirgrate or just re-locate?
getting mixed advise on that subject too?

Ukkram

We formally emigrated as we have assets in SA and our income must flow via a blocked non-res account.
We could have just ducked and used our bank card and just swiped when doing shopping but unfortunately the card expires and one has to get re- FICA'd from time to time.

scapetown

I understand, thanks for that, I will seek more info on what our best option will be.

EMR

It's the afternoon wind that makes Lagos so pleasant during the hot days of summer and being from the sea equally pleasant in winter.
It was its location and the winds that led to Lagos being one of the ports used for the voyages of discovery and is growth as a port and trading centre.

scapetown

Thanks EMR will definitely be including it on our recee.

AliceCaroline

Lagos is a lovely town, definitely worth a visit.
We live in a village near there and it's often breezy but like EMR says this helps to drop the temperature. In the heat of summer that can make it easier to get a good nights sleep.

scapetown

Great, thanks for that, Lagos is definitely looking more appealing now I can relax over the wind situation.

ricko

I've read that you could return to the UK for up to 90 days each year and not be tax resident.
Is there an extra rule that brings in a 30 day limit?

Could you please let us know the details of this, or the source of the information?

Diddion

The relevant search phrase is 'UK Statutory Residence Test'

The primary source of information is the government: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...dence-test-srt

It is not as complex as it seems, and there are three separate aspects:
The automatic Overseas Test
The Automatic UK Test
The Sufficient Ties Test.

The first of these I will disregard, because if you pass that test you will automatically be regarded as an overseas tax resident. If you fail the Automatic UK test you will, by definition, be treated as a UK tax resident, irrespective of anything else. Pages 17 and 18 of that document explain the conditions. 183 days or more in the UK (as one would expect) and, in relation to my original post, more than 90 days in the same property (30 in the relevant tax year) is covered in the Second Automatic UK test.

So, if you have read these carefully and can ensure that you do not fall foul of the Automatic Tests, we would then turn to the sufficient ties tests. Again, these are not as complex as they might appear. In summary, each tie is really a calculation factor. The more such ties, the less time you can spend in the UK before being deemed a UK resident.

There are four ties, as follows; these ties are explained on page 30 onwards of the government document.
 a family tie
 an accommodation tie
 a work tie, and
 a 90-day tie

The maximum number of days you can spend in the UK during the tax year before being deemed a UK tax resident is given on page 29

In my case, for example, we are currently UK residents, so that is one tie already. We have no dependent children, so that we will not have a family tie. We will not have a property available to live in (we will have property, but it will be in the hands of a rental agent, so not available for us) So no accommodation tie. We think we might have a 90-day tie (see page 32) - though that might be the same as being UK residents but we'll assume so, for safety.

At most, therefore, we believe we will have two UK ties. That being the case we would be able to spend up to 90 days in the UK before falling into the UK tax system.

Additionally, split year treatment is also available (I understand) being operated by both the UK and Portugal. There are separate rules for this, one of which is a limited amount of time you can spend in the UK during the remainder of the split year.

We have decided to seek the advice of an international tax adviser, because I am well aware of the dangers of making decisions on the basis of incomplete understanding - I am certainly not an expert! I would caution anyone to consider doing the same, particularly if there would be costs for getting it wrong.

Hope this helps a little.

ricko

Your post gave an excellent explanation.
Thank you for going to so much trouble.

The 90 day figure corresponds to what I had seen elsewhere. Under what circumstances would you only be able to stay for 30 days?

Ukkram

Silly question perhaps. If I leave the UK to work in Portugal on 01 Aug 2017 would I be tax resident in the UK until 01 Aug 2017 or until 05 April 2018?

EMR

You would be tax resident for the tax year you arrived if you stay in the uk for longer than the qualifying period which I think is 90days.