atlasthemonk

i have seen a desireable property for sale in Portugal but the advert states that the plot is 2000sqr m, but i have paced the rectangular, streight edged plot to 3200sqr m.....am I getting a bargin or am I beinging scammed by the agent?

Lelandy

Hi, we had a similar experience last year when purchasing, the Agent and Lawyers both getting the plot size wrong. One high one very low, so I did a Bing maps area calculation showing 2000 sq/m and sent it to all concerned, with eventual agreement. The plot size must be accurately recorded on the Escritura and Caderneta Predial, so it should all be sorted before deeds and payment. Good luck.

mfesharne

The land registry records are notoriously out of date & inaccurate for a variety of reasons but if you want to be 110% sure or how much land there is & exactly where the boundaries are etc, you can pay the Florestal/APFLOR guys to come out do it properly.

Just Google APFLOR + your area & you should find your local one & it'll probably be in or near your Camara building

liveaboard

The agent probably pointed to the property bounding markers of the next plot over. I'm sure the cardenetta is correct.
You could have an error of a few percent, bot not 50%.
I had the same thing happen, I had to do my own surveying to figure out where the actual boundaries were.

atlasthemonk

Thank you all.....I am back in the uk now and followed Lelandys advice and google maped the plot to within a few meters of my estimate. This is an older house with walled / fenced garden area . The advert describes the house, garage and well but does not have any refference to three small log shed/storage buildings.....according to the agent (one of Portugals largest ) I cannot see the title deeds until i submit a formal offer and deposite.....this forum has told me that the estate agents are an unregulated industry.....but is this still normal or should i keep on looking.

barlaventoexpert

..."according to the agent (one of Portugals largest ) I cannot see the title deeds until i submit a formal offer and deposit...".

This is a load of b*ll*cks.

When we bought our house north of Lisbon, last year, I had a standard draft email which I sent to any agent selling a property which we were interested in, IMMEDIATELY, after we had viewed it and decided we were interested in it.

I demanded by email pdf copies of the:

- Escritura
- Caderneta Predial
- Plans of the Plot
- Energy Certificate (required by law)

so that we could check the property AND before we would even consider making an informal offer.

In one case, with one well-known established agency, it lead to us immediately halting negotiations as the size of the plot was incorrect and the owners were not prepared to correct the details in the Registro Predial. Eventually, we desisted as the agent was trying telling me that this was the "way things were done in Portugal"
I had to put him right quoting the relevant sections of the Civil Code.

I should point out here that both my wife & I speak, read & write Portuguese pretty well and had just completed selling our property in Lagos. We also handled the process of the promissory contract ourselves as well as up & until the signing of the escritura at a solicitor/notary recommended by the local branch of our bank.

There is a lot of bull peddled by local real estate agents & some advogados/solicitors. Don't believe them.

coleio

It's not uncommon for articles to be under-declared if they have not been updated recently, can be explained by having to pay "council tax" on the land area so one way to reduce the liability was to under-declare. I think the official estimate was some figure like the total area of all the declared land in Portugal is equal to 90% to the total area of Portugal. The vendor(s) may, obviously, be reluctant to correct the official record unless a sale is in the offing as it costs money for them to do so. There have a been a couple of efforts to force/encourage owners to update the official records with official boundary markers but as inherited articles often have multiple owners or are subdivided it would be a massive PITA of officialdom to get this done. This is quite common but any half useful Lawyer will be authorised and able to access the records for a small fee (£15 I think I paid) which should include sketch discription to the boundary markers for you to check if you are thinking of buying (or selling). Beware - different agencies/areas/offices/persons will have a different idea of what is correct or incorrect procedure/paperwork so often useful to get a second/third/fifth opinion.