liveaboard

Yes, I have spoken to FF solar several times over the years, and I talked to them about this as well.
They have great material and experience, but terrible prices.
And every time I go there, the sales people tell me lies. The lies they told my would probably not be noticed by most people, but I'm a technical person and I do my research.
The last time, it was about solar system batteries. The sales lady told me enthusiastically that a battery would pay for itself in 8 years.
I called her on it; "That's not true is it?"
"No." she admitted.

So even though they're just a few km from me, I'm looking for someone else.

liveaboard

So actually, a heat pump is a reversible air conditioner.
When used as an air conditioner, it's an air conditioner. The new ones are more efficient than the old ones, but the principles of operation are exactly the same.

If you saved money, that's a good thing.

liveaboard

Back to square 1, yes; what we need is good objective advice. And that's a problem when the advice person is also the installation and sales person.
This is why I prefer to do everything myself; even though I'm not as knowledgeable as the professional installers, I know who I'm working for.

And once I'm into it all, I will be pretty good at solving any problems that arise.

macliam

That's how I got to know about them...... back in the 70s an ex-apprentice to my da had become a refrigeration engineer. He built a new home and also built and installed a water-source heat-pump, because it was, at heart, a reverse fridge (and hence a reversed air-conditioner). However, reversed does not mean the same as reversible and I am always a little dubious about the reversible air conditioner as a form of heating (although it's a great idea). I have not gone into it, but it seems likely that such a unit, while flexible, is probably slightly less efficient than a dedicated air-conditioning unit and also slightly less efficient than a dedicated heat-pump for heating. However, that's relative and probably overcome by its flexibility and the advances in design and manufacture. Likewise, the term "heat-pump" is being used in other ways these days .... for example the heat-pump tumble drier descries the closed-loop re-use of already heated air, rather than the generation of heat (although this system also saves energy and costs).

However, whatever the use of technology, anything that can efficiently produce more than one Kw of heat or cooling per Kw of input electricity is a winner.... given that electricity is easily available at a good price. It then comes down to the cost of purchase and installation versus alternatives.... plus any other "negatives" that may apply. It also solves one of my other bugbears.... energy storage, as heat stored as hot water in a well-insilated unit is a good storage solution too. So it is quite possible that a reversible heat-pump could outperform an older dedicated unit and best not to get hung up on relative efficiency.

toots sweet

Waking up this thread again....

.LIVEABOARD did you ever do anything about your heatpump?

We are thinking of one, well actually we inherited one with our house which was installed by the owner(a PT/ Canadian who was an engineer with York(Johnson)systems who are in Lisbon). So we have everything in place, except we can't get the pump to work.OH has taken it apart within his extent of knowledge of the system but no luck,so what we need is a new pump and someone who knows what to do to install it.Prices are a bit mind boggling but maybe a little cheaper if we bring it from abroad,but the thing is we would need someone who knows what they're doing to install it and connect to current heaters.
So did you find anyone who sounded as if they know what they're talking about? Thinking someone from Lisbon might be better as we are fairly close near Santarem. Or did you have 2nd thoughts ?
Or does anyone else have more thoughts on the subject or who has one working now.?
Thanks

liveaboard

My project got knocked to the back burner because of other needs; but it's still on the cards.

Before you junk the heatpump you have, be sure that it is junk!
I think what you need is a repair guy to look at it first.

These systems are very complex on top, but inside they're really very simple, just a motor and a pump in a lot of tubing.
It could be that the motor is bad, but the most likely scenario is that it's the electronics.
Call the company who sold it, and ask if they can send a service person to check it out for you. That will cost very little time or money compared to a system replacement.
Usually the new electronic boards just plug in, if you can get the part that is.
Many also have inverter drive which are prone to failure; the parts can be expensive, but they don't have to be.

After that if you do need a new unut, I assume you'll need installation done for you as well.
I have a Portuguese friend who is an engineer and knows about things; he told me he knows a good heatpump guy in Lisbon. If you find you need a new unit I can ask for a contact.
You are a bit far from Lisbon though, you might do better to find someone more local.

For myself, I've decided to DIY it, and whatever disadvantage I have as a non-pro will be balanced out by cost savings and lesser aggravation.
I've built and serviced a few aircon systems and heat systems before.
None of the firms I talked to ever made me a quote at all. I learned stuff from them though.

These guys have good prices; https://klima.pt/

toots sweet

Thanks Liveaboard....
Looking into getting an engineer out,but there's no-one here in our small town.Poss Santarem,but would want someone with prior knowledge rather than just anyone and that's the difficulty.The pump is about 16 years old and quite noisy,which is one reason for buying a new one. Might come back to you about the guy in Lisbon.!

liveaboard

Noise is most likely caused by bad fan bearings; they will cause a hard to define roar or rumble. the tiniest wear will cause noise through the fan blades, bearing wear that wouldn't be a problem in any other application.
Parts cost 10 euros.
There are other causes; it's not likely to be something inside the unit, but if it is then you're right, it's going down.