Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

That's good to know.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

The NHR is so slyly worded by estate agents to attract buyers who are then blasted with a huge tax bill.
Had I known that I will pay 28% on my type of tax even with NHR, I would have stayed in South Africa and pay 13% tax. Now I sit with a ~€11k tax bill.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

In fact not all types of income are tax free under RNH.
Real estate agents sell houses but not tax advises.
To be sure about the tax situation, ask professional help!

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Thanks everyone for this.It's extremely helpful ,but also getting me more confused.
I am in slightly different situation. My husband is portuguese and we are both retired.
This winter we are spending 3 months in Portugal,with a view to buying property and returning to Portugal to live.
Do I need to get NHR or not(obviously my husband doesn't need this)? I have my fiscal number. Our marriage is registered In Portugal.
I am hoping to apply for dual citizenship,but would it be better just to apply for residency first?
We are staying near Alcobaca. Am I correct in thinking the nearest Loja do Cidadao is in Batalha or is there one any nearer?
Thanks

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

You don't need to get NHR. You may want to try and get it as it's a tax incentive but it's not something you need to do.

I think you'd need to get residency before Citizenship as I think you need to live in Portugal for three years first to get Citizenship through marriage.

"Naturalisation by marriage
If you are married to a Portuguese citizen you may obtain Portuguese citizenship after three years as long as you make your declaration while you remain married. If you divorce or the marriage is annulled at a later date your Portuguese citizenship will not be rescinded."


Become a Portuguese citizen AND keep your British passport

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

I know I don't need to get it, but will i still get tax exemption in my own right, if I'm married to a portuguese citizen.If so then it is a must do I think.

It's not that I need to live in Portugal for 3 yrs,it's you have to be married for 3 yrs(10 x times that time for us !)

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

You qualify (as would your PT spouse) if you haven't been taxed in Portugal as a tax resident in any of the previous 5 years and the income isn't PT sourced.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

You detest 'GROSS inaccuracy ? (heh! if your using capitols than so will I )

That would suggest that I am telling porkies wouldn't it.? :confused:

I actually DETEST the constant use of quotes on the forum,mainly because so many of them are merely the thoughts of some random,usually rabid journalist. Which all too often do not materialise into fact

However, when they are quoted from actual speeches in parliament they maybe stand a chance of having some merit.

The minister is 'purported ' to have said the above according to sources on the Algarve Daily News. ( I cannot give you a quote :( ) He is certainly being pushed by countries such as Finland,Sweden and the Netherlands (who refused to allow us to gain NHR btw )
The situation of having ex-pats living side by side, but paying different amounts of tax is indeed becoming an issue.
The minister is looking to increase tax's on ex-pat pensions, So the likely hood of this going through parliament is pretty strong,especially if he is forced to drop NHR.

The deal or no deal bit referred to those with NHR

It is merely at the speculation and talking stage..People making plans for a year+ ahead need to be aware of it though,don't you think?

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

The situation of having ex-pats living side by side, but paying different amounts of tax is indeed becoming an issue.

I never read this was an issue for the government.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Nor me and I consume a fair bit of national news in various forms. Closest I can come to that is that some of the opposition parties don't like the scheme but not on account of anything to do specifically with expats who pay the normal tax - more that all other residents do so, amongst other things.

Let's just say that the combination of your imagination and some loose terminology aren't really helping to explain the matter as reported in more trustworthy sources than the Algarve Daily News ;)

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

No it isn't they have no problem with it,They get their tax's where they can

It's the ex-pats paying different levels of tax that has ticked many off. especially long term ex-pats.Or in our case those that arrived on the cusp of the NHR scheme and were misinformed about it,then prevented from going on it anyway because the country that held our main pensions(Netherlands) strongly objected to it

I think (but don't know of course) that the minister is appealing to that group ..before he recommends shutting down the scheme and just taxing ALL ex-pat pensioners at a certain rate

It is still speculation though,being discussed.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Well that's me told....by the font of all knowledge...Remember folks you read it here..Red Eric says it isn't happening. He reads only the sensible news..:eek::o

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

It must be the author in you that gives you such a vivid imagination :)

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Ummm Its front page news in todays Portugal News Eric.. suggest you read it,unless thats on your black list as well? :starsmile:

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

If you can manage to do this with a written conversation, I wonder what it must be like actually talking to you?

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

To be fair to Eric its the editors interpretation of the announcement.
Is the editor Portuguese or a Brit.
I learned long ago to ignore the more sensationalist views of the expat press.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Lordy:rolleyes: Not another one.

Just to be clear on this, I didn't say nothing is happening to the NHR regime. OK?

And the article in the online Portugal News is fine and completely in keeping with what has been reported elsewhere.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Lordy lordy indeed, what were you saying then?

You objected to my saying the little word 'scrap'. Well it would seem to me that changing the whole NHR scheme to allow for taxing pensions would be kinda scrapping it ?..Or no?
I am reading todays Portugal News Newspaper right now.. with a huge photo of Centeno on the front, and the headline TAXMAN TARGETS EXPAT PENSIONS.
Can you explain where my 'writers imagination' has got the better of me then ? curious :starsmile:

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

[B[/B]Well I wouldn't start by shouting in CAPITOL letters :starsmile: I am quite nice really

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Found the article in small type :Taxman targets expat pensions - The Portugal News

Two things :

1.The Minister failed to provide a deadline for a tax on expat pensioners to be introduced, or whether it would be a flat rate of either five or ten percent, but said several studies still needed to be completed before a rate and a date were announced.
2.It is also believed that the tax rate will only apply to future residents looking to benefit from the so-called non-habitual resident programme.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

The NHR benefits are of course much wider than purely pensions, since the benefits also encompass foreign-sourced earnings and gains, and foreign-sourced rental income. The latter (for a UK-domiciled individual) is taxable in the UK, but, at least at the moment, is subject to the personal allowance. A couple could therefore receive an income of £23k from UK rent, without having any UK tax to pay. Whilst NHR there would also be no Portuguese tax; after the 10 years it becomes fully taxable in Portugal (within double taxation rules)

Speaking personally, as a someone about to emigrate to Portugal in 2018, I would be disadvantaged by any new tax on pensions, though I am, quite honestly, much more bothered by what I see as the own goal of Brexit on the potential loss of health cover. I think it always unwise to make decisions of where to live on the basis of the tax system because, naturally, these things can, and do, change. Our decision to live in Portugal was largely due to the wonderful people, reasonable cost of living, and weather, enhanced by the challenge of learning a new culture and language, and we did not actually discover about the tax system until after having made that decision (it was part of our 'due diligence' process). I think the only sensible thing to do is to work out one's figures on the basis of NHR not existing at all, with anything else becoming a bonus.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

I think you mean "capital" rather than "capitol" and the accusation is another of your flights of fancy.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

I think you must have been reading the online version ..(just saying.). as the newspaper version was the full front page -with stonking great headline!!

Yes ,Thats exactly what I was saying,it is being reviewed because of pressure from these other EU countries.As to whether it will be an across the board basic tax for ALL ex-pats, regardless of any previous deals. Or whether existing NHR deals will be honoured ? who knows.Remains to be seen.

We already pay tax here as I have said .We didn't expect the 3.5% tax supplement imposed on us (,supposedly for one year) during the crisis. It has only now gone down to 3% .No signs of it's removal being honoured to date.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

:goodpost: Well said Didion.. It's exactly the same reason we came to Portugal We also had no idea about the then new tax system.. and we missed it anyway.
i don't think a move to another country should be based on what you can gain from it in monetary terms. Sadly both the NHR scheme and particularly the Golden visa scheme have brought out many who wish to practice tax evasion.(The only reason Portugal has its arm up its back now is because one very wealthy Finish woman ,member of the board of one of Finland's largest companies,explained on TV, that she was moving her whole family to Portugal ,because she didn't want to pay tax in Finland .Thus causing the Finnish authorities to complain bitterly to the EU,joining the Swedish and now the Dutch in protest)
We didn't know about the 35% tax rule when we moved to NL.We had to fight for it as well when we found out ,as the company OH was headhunted (there's an old term :lol:) for refused to believe it existed..They only had one other foreigner in their company.It did cause resentment ..Rightly so imo

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Did they?

Was that a formal complaint to the Commission?

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

:thumbup:

I think the whole NHR situation is over-hyped . Back to the newspaper article it refered to increased applications at a rate of 10 a day. Assuming a normal working week that is only about 2,500 a year . Earlier there were fewer applications so probably over the life of the legislation maybe 20,000 people with NHR status - in an EU population of 300 million that is hardly a figure that will shatter the economy of countries such as Holland, Sweden , France and UK. Probably not achieved benefits the Portuguese government imaged when they introduced it back in 2009 so now just better to "move on" and have good relations with the rest of the EU.

Do you think Madonna will apply ??:thumbsup:

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

:p

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Oh Pleeeezeee Eric... Get over yerself...

My SIL is Finnish. It was reported in her local paper after one of the directors of a 'huge Finnish company' (and no I don't know which) said on TV that she was moving to Portugal with her family to avoid paying tax in Finland. Caused a huge political row....and complaints to both Portugal and Brussels. :starsmile:

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

I bet she will :lol: At least her accountants will insist on it. But for her it will be surely the Golden Visa?. she is American and therefore not eligible for NHR..

Michael Fassbender on the other hand would be able to apply

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Yes, I'm aware of most of that (although paradoxically I think that in that particular case the controversy was over avoidance of inheritance tax, which is a separate issue).

What I'm not aware of, though, is complaints specifically to Brussels or to the EU. Normally such a thing would be registered and would lead to an investigation and a response but, to the best of my knowledge, there has been nothing of that nature reported.

In fact, all the sources I've come across seem to agree that Portugal isn't breaking any EU regulations, which would make any formal complaint procedure pointless.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

:confused:

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Is joining Afpop still wise to do???

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

If yoy want the super deal on Allianz medical insurance yes .

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Yes if you live in the Algarve as you discounts for many services and medical insurance. The medical insurance discount alone covers the AFPOP membership fees.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Is that also the case if not in the Algarve?

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

yes although the administration and the Afpop activities take place in the Algarve

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

As I live in the north I get no discounts and only benefit from the Allianz Medical. I need to keep my AFPOP membership as Allianz is the only medical insurance that allows one to stay a member after reaching the age of 70.

This medical insurance is tailored for AFPOP members only.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

This confuses me too.

I don't think NHR was an EU thing. Thought it was a PT thing open to people from anywhere.

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

It is

Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal
 

Perhaps there's a definition of "not eligible" which we're overlooking?