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Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Old Mar 2nd 2018, 5:01 pm
  #196  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Originally Posted by JohnsonN View Post
Guys, i am totally agree with you. The issue is that it was the answer of the lawer!! And i keep going, just want to find the one who knows the truth
You have been given the "truth" by people that have been there and done that not advice from a car parking attendant pretending to be a lawyer.

I have been dealing in shares, dividends, CGT since you were in a nappy.
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Old Mar 2nd 2018, 5:12 pm
  #197  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Originally Posted by Ukkram View Post
No no no my boy. It does not work like that. If you sell your shares and the money is made available to you then it is a tax event whether you keep the money in the US bank or not.

If you do not declare it in the year of sale one day you will have to and provide details and proof of purchase price and the sale price. The Sale Contract Note will show the date of sale and you will pay a penalty plus interest.

You have to declare your worldwide assets to the country of residence. Full stop. YOU my boy have sooo much to learn about life.
May be just a phrasing matter here but you don't have to declare your worldwide assets to Portugal if you live here - you declare your worldwide income. A capital gain, however, counts as income in the year in which the gain is made.
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Old Mar 2nd 2018, 5:25 pm
  #198  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Quite right Eric. I have never filed tax here personally as I cannot understand Portuguese but it might be different here and there is no need to list your worldwide assets but only the income derived from them.

In South Africa you have to declare your world wide assets every year so they can keep tabs on them should you sell.
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Old Mar 2nd 2018, 5:43 pm
  #199  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Originally Posted by Ukkram View Post
In South Africa you have to declare your world wide assets every year so they can keep tabs on them should you sell.
And how do they know if you don't declare assets held abroad? Especially if, say, you're a recent immigrant with assets in your previous country of residence.
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Old Mar 2nd 2018, 6:04 pm
  #200  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

I would not chance it as I want everything legal and above board. The DTA gives details of exchange of information between signatory countries.

If you do not disclose it then your country of residence will not know about your foreign assets. Just don't sell them. If you do then you have to take the money to the laundry. Not worth it.
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Old Mar 2nd 2018, 6:19 pm
  #201  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Originally Posted by Ukkram View Post
I would not chance it as I want everything legal and above board. The DTA gives details of exchange of information between signatory countries.

If you do not disclose it then your country of residence will not know about your foreign assets. Just don't sell them. If you do then you have to take the money to the laundry. Not worth it.
What do you buy your property with, how do you live, pay your bills without an income from somewhere . .?
I have been a tax officer and assets , life style without apparent income are a red flag when it comes to looking for tax irregularities..
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Old Mar 2nd 2018, 6:20 pm
  #202  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

OK - more for the mix.

I am confident about my original statement concerning capital gains, less so about my thoughts on interest and dividends. Here are some references:


http://="https://www.belionpartners....-regime.html"]relevant statement here is:.....capital gains from the alienation of other types of property (notably securities) are taxable only in the beneficiary's country of residence. As such, capital gains from the sale of securities will be subject to tax in Portugal, currently at a flat rate of 28%

https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/a...ital-gains-tax.....In contrast, capital gains on shares may only be taxed in the country of residence, so gains are not exempt in Portugal even under the NHR regime


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/capit...oid-lucatello/ (This is a linked in post by the director of a firm of Notaries) Tax at a flat rate of 28% is levied on gains on shares, which also applies to mixed or closed (private subscription) funds. Gains on shares in a blacklisted jurisdiction are taxed at 35%. Capital gains on UK shares may only be taxed in the country of residence, so in Portugal in this case.

I am confident that Capital Gains tax will be levied on the sale of securities, with the rate of 28% universally quoted. I am not confident about my assertion regarding interest and dividends - I'm going to look for more sources.

I just want to make a point, though. Clearly, when these shares are sold, a taxable gain will take place, which cannot be avoided if you are already resident. Perhaps the thing to do might be just take the dividend income, keep aside 28% in case there is a tax charge, and see what happens? Then, naturally, report back here!
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Old Mar 2nd 2018, 7:06 pm
  #203  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

All what you state is correct. The UK does not have a withholding tax on dividends and interest but the DTA caps it to 15% on dividends and 10% on interest.
These are payable to either country but in my experience it is exempt in PT under the NHR. PT has never taxed me on this. Only on the CGT at 28%.

My fight with the AT is this:

The domestic law in South Africa states that upon emigration all movable assets must be deemed as sold on the date of emigration and re-bought at the same price the next day. This CGT is an Exit Tax and resets the base cost for future taxation in your country you are immigrating to. A new page if you wish.

I have now paid this Exit Tax but PT will not accept it and want their tax cut.

However, the DTA states that CGT is a residential tax and only payable to the country of residence.
As I cannot be tax resident in 2 countries at the same time and South Africa has taxed me then it proves that I was tax resident in SA only at the time.

Strangely PT has the same Exit tax.
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Old Mar 3rd 2018, 10:52 am
  #204  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

How does South Africa define the emigration event? If it was when you left the SA, you did not have a tax resident status in RoP yet, right?

Originally Posted by Ukkram View Post
All what you state is correct. The UK does not have a withholding tax on dividends and interest but the DTA caps it to 15% on dividends and 10% on interest.
These are payable to either country but in my experience it is exempt in PT under the NHR. PT has never taxed me on this. Only on the CGT at 28%.

My fight with the AT is this:

The domestic law in South Africa states that upon emigration all movable assets must be deemed as sold on the date of emigration and re-bought at the same price the next day. This CGT is an Exit Tax and resets the base cost for future taxation in your country you are immigrating to. A new page if you wish.

I have now paid this Exit Tax but PT will not accept it and want their tax cut.

However, the DTA states that CGT is a residential tax and only payable to the country of residence.
As I cannot be tax resident in 2 countries at the same time and South Africa has taxed me then it proves that I was tax resident in SA only at the time.

Strangely PT has the same Exit tax.
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Old Mar 3rd 2018, 2:10 pm
  #205  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

In SA if you were ordinarily resident for 915 days over the past 5 years plus 91 days in the tax year when you emigrate you will be tax resident until the date of departure. The date stamp in your passport.

In PT since 2015 if you were present here for 183 days or more you will be tax resident from the date of arrival. Or. If you have a long term lease or purchase a home with the intention to stay then you will be tax resident from the date of arrival regardless of the time spent here.

How it worked prior to 2015 is anyone's guess.
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Old Dec 24th 2018, 1:07 pm
  #206  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Re: Registering with health service
Hi I was directed to Portugesee Social Services where I was advised I would need to obtain an "S1" form in order to register. I am a retired UK pensioner and as such have made no Social insurance contributions for some years. The web sites in the UK indicate that an "S1" is only issued to enployees or the self employed working in Europe. I have been advised that I should take my temporary resident permit issued by my Camara directly to the nearest clinic and register without going to Social services. Can anyone advise what is the correct procedure?
Regards
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Old Dec 24th 2018, 1:29 pm
  #207  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Originally Posted by Dusty108 View Post
Re: Registering with health service
Hi I was directed to Portugesee Social Services where I was advised I would need to obtain an "S1" form in order to register. I am a retired UK pensioner and as such have made no Social insurance contributions for some years. The web sites in the UK indicate that an "S1" is only issued to enployees or the self employed working in Europe. I have been advised that I should take my temporary resident permit issued by my Camara directly to the nearest clinic and register without going to Social services. Can anyone advise what is the correct procedure?
Regards
The correct procedure is as described to you. As a UK pensioner an S1 form is available from the UK Social Security and if you contact the International Office they should send one to you at your Portuguese address. You then take this to your local Social Security office and register with them. About two weeks later they should send you a confirmation letter which you take to the local Health Centre.
The "alternative" procedure - going to the health Centre and simply showing your residence permit does also work in some areas as all Portuguese residents are entitled to free healthcare.
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Old Dec 24th 2018, 1:51 pm
  #208  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Originally Posted by Dusty108 View Post
The web sites in the UK indicate that an "S1" is only issued to enployees or the self employed working in Europe.
This one doesn't :

S1 form – healthcare paid for by the UK

You may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK if you live in Portugal and get an exportable UK pension, contribution-based Employment Support Allowance or another exportable benefit.

You need to apply for a S1 form – contact the Department for Work and Pensions’ International Pensions Centre.
Living in Portugal

Nor does the NHS website :

UK pensioners

If you are living in an EEA country or Switzerland and you receive an exportable UK pension, contribution-based Employment Support Allowance or another exportable benefit, you may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK. You will need to apply for a certificate of entitlement known as an S1 form.
Living and working abroad

Originally Posted by Loafing Along View Post
The "alternative" procedure - going to the health Centre and simply showing your residence permit does also work in some areas as all Portuguese residents are entitled to free healthcare.

Maybe so but in order for the reciprocal charging to be initiated - as should happen with EU citizens with SS contributions histories only in their home countries who choose to retire in Portugal - the S1 registration is the correct method.
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Old Dec 24th 2018, 3:17 pm
  #209  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

I have never in my life made healthcare contributions in my country as healthcare is almost free. My country does not pay for any medical incident in PT yet I get almost free state healthcare.
All we did was to get proof that we live in this parish from the Junta and handed it to the health center with our residency cards and voila.
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Old Dec 24th 2018, 9:00 pm
  #210  
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Default Re: Step by Step - Arrival in Portugal

Originally Posted by Ukkram View Post
I have never in my life made healthcare contributions in my country as healthcare is almost free. My country does not pay for any medical incident in PT yet I get almost free state healthcare.
All we did was to get proof that we live in this parish from the Junta and handed it to the health center with our residency cards and voila.
You might find things different in the UK.
With no record of UK NI contribution or at least 6 months residence you could end up with a bill for any treatment as a non UK resident..
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