sportpix

I'm finally back on my feet (with crutches) after suffering a broken leg three months ago and so I'm planning to go back to HK to try to sell my house, before the end of this month. I also have several long-standing medical appointments to attend in HK, the first of which is in the second week of September and the third in mid-January. HK has a 14-day hotel quarantine so I have to return in time to endure this and be available for the first medical appointment.

I've been here now for seven months straight, so as I understand it I can disappear for another six months by which time I will have to return to meet the requirements of residency, which started in mid-September last year. I returned to HK in mid November after completing all the paperwork and buying a property and then came back to PT in early January.

I probably won't stay away for six months but it would be good to know exactly how the process works with regard to retaining residency while living a normal life (Covid notwithstanding) of occasional overseas trips for holidays and such and also complying with the rules.

EU.flag

https://imigrante.sef.pt/en/direitos-deveres/

Rambling archer

Congratulations on ditching the wheelchair! Now the joys of physio beckon ... Hope the planning of your trip goes well.

sportpix

Thanks RA. Physio starts tomorrow. Still puzzled about the rules of coming and going and whether it’s on a calendar year or another date such as date of residency.

Rambling archer

Well SEF are clear as mud as usual - EUf's link gives the following ...
<The holder of a temporary Residence Permit who intends to be absent from Portugal, during the validity period, for a timeframe exceeding six consecutive months or eight unsequential months has a duty to inform SEF before leaving national territory>
So if you KNOW in advance you would be absent for more than 6 months (all in one go with no breaks) you have to tell them BEFORE you go. So presumably a change of plan while you are abroad does not need for you to tell them, as it depends on your intention before you leave? The totting up of 8 unsequential months doesn't say when you start the calculation but I suspect (difficult to prove) you should start from Residency date - you have not had 8 months away before your planned trip now, so you can start again ? I doubt it is done on a calendar year (as in your time away at the end of your trip in January 2022 would not get chopped off and put into a separate calculation for 2022) more on combined time away. Goodness knows how businessmen who travel abroad a lot calculate it?

However, there is only the obligation to inform SEF (or their successors!), not that there is a limitation on time you can be absent? The whole site is remarkably uninformative! and there is even no indication of how you would even inform SEF ...

Bomber Harris

The difficulty in using website summaries (even official ones) is that often is causes more questions in the mind of the reader. There is a limit on the time you can be absent (Article 85 - link below).
However, the link posted relates to residency under Lei 23/2007 (third country citizens), whereas there are different rules for EU citizens under Lei 37/2006, and a third (slightly different) set of rules applicable to UK citizens with protected rights under the Withdrawal Agreement. The latter two have no duty to inform SEF. The original poster hasn't specified which type of residency he has so any one of these sets of rules may apply.

https://dre.pt/web/guest/legislacao-...diploma/indice

sportpix

I have a British passport and arrived in August last year to beat the dreaded Brexit. I got my residency certificate in September. Not sure what type of visa that classes me as.

Bomber Harris

The third one, a UK citizen with a resident's permit with protected rights in accordance with Article 15.2 of the Withdrawal Agreement.
Continuity of residence for the purposes of acquisition of the right of permanent residence shall be determined in accordance with Article 16(3) and Article 21 of Directive 2004/38/EC.
Article 16.3 states;
Continuity of residence shall not be affected by temporary absences not exceeding a total of six months a year, or by absences of a longer duration for compulsory military service, or by one absence of a maximum of twelve consecutive months for important reasons such as pregnancy and childbirth, serious illness, study or vocational training, or a posting in another Member State or a third country.
Clarification from the UK embassy in PT (who asked SEF for clarification) is that 6 months a year, means 6 months in any 12 month period, i.e. absence for the last 6 months of 2021 and the first 6 months of 2022 would not comply.

riv

Do you really need the med treatment to be carried out in HK as opposed to Portugal ? Or maybe the UK ?

ANd can the HK property sale not be carried out by professionals, without your personal attendance ?

sportpix

After my experience with my current medical situation I’m happy to be treated in HK. The first bout of physio was canceled two weeks ago as the screw had not been taken out and was changed to yesterday. At 9am yesterday the hospital called and said it was canceled again! When I left the hospital on Tuesday I was told to report to the health clinic in Lagos to have the dressing changed. When I did so the nurse told me she would book me in for next Monday as she only does dressings between 4 and 7… I tried to ring several times but no one bothered to pick up the phone. Anyway I said ok and then after she’d studied the paperwork she called me into her room and said that the documents stated that the dressings have to be changed at the hospital in portimao. She called them to confirm and now I have to go there on Monday. This will cost me 60 euros in taxi fees. I am not happy about this at all.
there is far too much to relate about the house sale which does indeed need me to be there.

Rambling archer

Digressing from the six-months etc topic - can you not ask for an ambulance (transporte de doentes nao-urgentes) from Portimao Hospital for your follow up appointments, be they at the clinic, nursing station for dressings, physiotherapy - all as prescribed by the Surgeon? Never had to do this personally but there do seem to be ways and means, and I am surprised the hospital admin have not suggested something in your case (but then again the SNS is in such a state up here in Central, I begin to wonder if they have administrators let alone any that know what they are doing, but I digress ... ). First take a look at the following websites that might put you on track? You will have to do a Google Translate I expect ...
Ambulancias de Portugal - https://www.ambulanciasdeportugal.pt/marcar-transporte/ - I suspect this MIGHT be payable, but have not go that far on the website form.
Red Cross - https://www.cruzvermelha.pt/sa%C3%BA...-urgentes.html - but there are only general contact details for Lisbon
SNS - guidlines - https://www.sns.gov.pt/sns-saude-mai...te-de-doentes/ - which includes
<other clinical situations duly justified by the attending physician, previously evaluated and authorized, on a case-by-case basis, by the NHS entities responsible for paying the charges.>
in Portuguese - outras situações clínicas devidamente justificadas pelo médico assistente, previamente avaliadas e autorizadas, caso a caso, pelas entidades do SNS responsáveis pelo pagamento dos encargos.
Contact for SNS

• Algarve Regional Health Administration, IP
  [email protected] – 289889900

It might be a bit short notice for Monday but perhaps while you are there on Monday you can negotiate a transport for your further appointments?

Hope this helps?

sportpix

Thanks RA. I need to investigate. Another problem seems to have arisen with going back to HK and that is that the HK govt is now demanding that vaccination certificates must be in English or Chinese. The one I have is in Portuguese. I have no idea whether I can get one in English. The difference being that with the correct certificate it's two weeks quarantine in a hotel or without is three weeks, and all at my cost. Apart from the fact that three weeks in a hotel room (you are not allowed out for any reason, such as exercise, is detrimental to the health, both physical and mental, it's also bloody expensive and the hotels are raking it in.

Rambling archer

Hummffff - our certificates are in Portuguese and English ... ours are the printed out pdf versions. I did think that the EU covid certificates were all in two languages, the country supplying, and English? Check yours again and if not, ask at the Centro do Saude while you are there what you can do about it.
As to being stuck in a hotel room, I can't imagine how you are going to cope with the leg on the plane for g'd knows how many hours you will be on the plane to HK, and crutches too! Remember to ask in advance for a wheelchair and assistance at the airports en route!

sportpix

So, my plan to head back to HK in September did not work out and I now plan to leave here the week after next, meaning mid October. I'm planning to return to PT mid January but my wife has "suggested" leaving it until mid February, after Chinese New Year. Returning in January will be three months away while doing so in February will be four months. On the eight months in and out basis of residency do I then assume I have to stay in PT for another six months straight before leaving again?

My only fixed plan of travel for 2022 is in October for my son's wedding in the UK, which has been postponed three times already because of the pox but should go ahead this time as the UK is returning to some sort of normal.

As there are no direct flights between Lisbon and HK I will need to fly to a third country. The UK is not possible as it's on the HK red list meaning three weeks hotel quarantine. Germany looks like the only possible third country location as it, like PT, is on the HK two-week quarantine list. There appears to be flights from Faro to Frankfurt so that's probably going to be my preferred route rather than Lisbon as that will mean a night in a hotel pre-flight. Frankfurt will also include a night in a hotel due to the late morning departure of Cathay Pacific. I am assuming I can fly from Faro to Frankfurt without any hindrance other than a covid test?

Rambling archer

Currently all you need between EU countries is your EU vaccination certificate. In fact within Europe you do not even go through passport control, ie Faro to Frankfurt, Frankfurt to Faro. You do not need an antigen test prior to setting off, but you need to check current German regulations for within the country (eg mask-wearing, and if you need to show vacc cert +/- negative test in hotels etc). With Easyjet your online booking gives advice as to where to get specific information for the country you are travelling to and I expect most airlines will do the same... Your airline will keep you up to date if any rules change!
For the HongKong bit, keep handy with your passport, your Residencia A4 paper from the Camara plus the QR A4 cert from SEF, especially for coming back to Germany, and then PT. You should avoid getting your passport stamped on return to the Schengen area (Frankfurt) as you are EU Resident. This is important for future travel within Europe - the 90 days in 180 rule!