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Residency after Brexit

Residency after Brexit

Old Sep 14th 2021, 1:38 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by K.Jackson View Post
Hi Bomber,

Thanks for the response. I understand that but an advocate suggested that if i get all the necessary documents then have a job contract and pay regular tax for at least couple of month i can get the residency from the Camara.

I am confused about it. But will much appreciate your expertise.
Change your advocate for one who knows what they're doing.
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 1:49 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by K.Jackson View Post
Thats very scary.

But on the flipside my friend in Portugal have his own company and is quite competent that he can get all the paperwork needed in a fairly short time. and also will offer me a job to live by. But he is not sure about the residency and citizenship side of it.

So thats where we stuck...
Forget citizenship for the time being - it's irrelevant to whether you can live here, you can only apply for it after 5 years of having done so legally and it takes a long time to process, assuming you can fulfil the requirements in the first place (for example you'll need to prove competence at the language via a battery of tests).

On the matter of getting legal resident status via your chosen route, I doubt you'll get much out of people on this forum on that front from the point of view of personal experience. Most on here arrived pre-Brexit, so they were able to go about things much more freely. The majority on here are not working, unless they're doing so remotely (which in itself is more complicated by Brexit than it was before - and it wasn't easy then to get everything straight).

For the official info published on the matter, read this link - it's the 2nd option which applies in your senario. APPLYING FOR RESIDENCE IN PORTUGAL - Working in Portugal
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 1:53 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by K.Jackson View Post
Thats very scary.

But on the flipside my friend in Portugal have his own company and is quite competent that he can get all the paperwork needed in a fairly short time. and also will offer me a job to live by. But he is not sure about the residency and citizenship side of it.

So thats where we stuck...
AFAIK, to work in Portugal, you are obliged to register to pay tax in Portugal, to pay tax in Portugal you must be resident..... therefore it seems that, without residency, you cannot work legally.
Having a friend with their own company can't help you there...... you can stay, illegally, but that's about all - and by doing so you might queer your ability to ever gain Citizenship, which is your aim.

It appears that gaining a visa to work in Portugal as a UK citizen is now neither easy, nor straightforward. This is the flip-side of rejecting FoM that was just dismissed as "fear", peddled by "doom merchants" by the Brexiteers.

I'd agree with Bomber, find someone who can advise you.... but I fear the answers will be the same as those given here
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 2:37 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

It's a shame you are not a world class athlete or footballer, you would get citizenship at the drop of a hat ūüėČ
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 2:48 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

You really do need to read through HM govt's website info pages first - lots of very useful information, updated very regularly, and worth going through all the sections. Also note that a significant hiccough caused by Brexit, is that anyone now applying as a UK citizen since Brexit became final, has to apply for permission to apply for Residency in Portugal FROM the country that they are CURRENTLY resident in. So you have to go to a consulate in the UK (probably Manchester or London?) and ask for a visa specifically with a view to residency in Portugal BEFORE you settle in Portugal. So you can do your exploring for a couple of months in Portugal as if you were a tourist (no visa required) but then must go back to UK to make your application for residency - with NIF tax number, bank account set up, accommodation booked/available (friends address will probably do if they will give you a letter of intent/approval to put you up?).
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 8:17 pm
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by Rambling archer View Post
... anyone now applying as a UK citizen since Brexit became final, has to apply for permission to apply for Residency in Portugal FROM the country that they are CURRENTLY resident in. So you have to go to a consulate in the UK (probably Manchester or London?) and ask for a visa specifically with a view to residency in Portugal BEFORE you settle in Portugal. ....
I may have missed it but has the OP declared where they are now resident?
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 6:15 am
  #22  
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Thumbs up Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by RichardHenshall View Post
I may have missed it but has the OP declared where they are now resident?
Hi Richard,
I am in the UK
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 9:31 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

I immigrated here few years ago under EU rules. But my wife is now an immigration lawyer here, so I know a bit about the process for non-EU immigration and for Brits now, who are basically non-EU/EEA and immigrate under same rules now as rest of world.

In terms of immigrating here under EU rules, that ship sailed 31st December 2020. UK citizens who entered Portugal with the intention of residency before then would have been able to remain, but you can't do that now. Should really have done this last year if serious about it.

Portugal is relatively open to immigration and it is easier to do it here than it would be to most first world countries. You can get a visa to come and work in some circumstances, if you are being transferred or are setting up a company in Portugal. There is another type of visa for "passive income" which is basically for people who won't work in Portugal but will rely on investment and pension income. These take a few months to set up, and need to be done from home country before you enter Portugal, but the thresholds are relatively low financially.

The third option, is that you come here, get a job, start working and then start a process to normalize this legally. It is possible, but it's not easy or quick. Because your 90 day schengen visa will certainly have expired way before your status is legal, you are in a grey area for a long, long time. Technically in Portugal you are legal as long as you have started the process with SEF (even if that process eventually fails) while things are pending. But only in Portugal. It means you basically cannot leave Portugal because you won't get back in, and you don't even want to cross a border going into Spain, because if you get picked up there, they won't care what you say to them about SEF, your schengen visa is not valid, and you'll get deported because you're not there legally.

In terms of citizenship, the language test is not difficult. It requires A1/A2 standard. I was in a local class for a year, 5 hours a week. I think everyone who stuck it out passed. My dad is in his 70s and he passed it a year or two back too (though he had done a Spanish night class for 20 odd years that helped). But to actually get a proper job and live here, you really need far better Portuguese than that, at A1/A2 level, people would still struggle to have basic conversations "in the wild". If you really want to get fluent, get yourself a partner who doesn't speak English! Jobs here generally don't pay well, there are many people who speak good English, as well as native Portuguese, so your English ability is not a golden ticket to anything.

I suppose there is also a fourth route (even works in toughest immigration regimes like UK).... how good's your tennis?

Seriously though, from the cases I've seen moving here, the ones that work out best have a good income that they can carry over so they don't need to rely on getting a job in Portugal. That either means they're rich, retired (with regular guaranteed pension) or have an online or remote business with good income that they can run from anywhere. Portugal has great internet, and same time zone as UK. Having some cash in the bank too helps, because if you are fresh off the plane, it's going to be hard to get credit here to buy cars or pay rental deposits.
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 9:51 am
  #24  
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Check your ancestry again just in case your grandfather was registered as an Irish citizen because believe me, it will make your life a million times easier.

Apart from moving to Ireland as already suggested, your only other option is to fight your way through the laborious Portuguese residency procedure in the UK. At least they have a low minimum income requirement and free health care for all residents. Portugal is probably the easiest EU state to relocate for third country citizens - Spain for example is much more difficult.

Don't forget that once you are in Portugal, you can freely and easily travel around the borderless Schengen zone.

Having part of your citizenship ripped away from you against your will is horrendous and unprecedented in peacetime. UK nationals are now finding out just how horrible it feels.

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Old Sep 15th 2021, 11:34 am
  #25  
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Thumbs up Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by captainflack View Post
I immigrated here few years ago under EU rules. But my wife is now an immigration lawyer here, so I know a bit about the process for non-EU immigration and for Brits now, who are basically non-EU/EEA and immigrate under same rules now as rest of world.

In terms of immigrating here under EU rules, that ship sailed 31st December 2020. UK citizens who entered Portugal with the intention of residency before then would have been able to remain, but you can't do that now. Should really have done this last year if serious about it.

Portugal is relatively open to immigration and it is easier to do it here than it would be to most first world countries. You can get a visa to come and work in some circumstances, if you are being transferred or are setting up a company in Portugal. There is another type of visa for "passive income" which is basically for people who won't work in Portugal but will rely on investment and pension income. These take a few months to set up, and need to be done from home country before you enter Portugal, but the thresholds are relatively low financially.

The third option, is that you come here, get a job, start working and then start a process to normalize this legally. It is possible, but it's not easy or quick. Because your 90 day schengen visa will certainly have expired way before your status is legal, you are in a grey area for a long, long time. Technically in Portugal you are legal as long as you have started the process with SEF (even if that process eventually fails) while things are pending. But only in Portugal. It means you basically cannot leave Portugal because you won't get back in, and you don't even want to cross a border going into Spain, because if you get picked up there, they won't care what you say to them about SEF, your schengen visa is not valid, and you'll get deported because you're not there legally.

In terms of citizenship, the language test is not difficult. It requires A1/A2 standard. I was in a local class for a year, 5 hours a week. I think everyone who stuck it out passed. My dad is in his 70s and he passed it a year or two back too (though he had done a Spanish night class for 20 odd years that helped). But to actually get a proper job and live here, you really need far better Portuguese than that, at A1/A2 level, people would still struggle to have basic conversations "in the wild". If you really want to get fluent, get yourself a partner who doesn't speak English! Jobs here generally don't pay well, there are many people who speak good English, as well as native Portuguese, so your English ability is not a golden ticket to anything.

I suppose there is also a fourth route (even works in toughest immigration regimes like UK).... how good's your tennis?

Seriously though, from the cases I've seen moving here, the ones that work out best have a good income that they can carry over so they don't need to rely on getting a job in Portugal. That either means they're rich, retired (with regular guaranteed pension) or have an online or remote business with good income that they can run from anywhere. Portugal has great internet, and same time zone as UK. Having some cash in the bank too helps, because if you are fresh off the plane, it's going to be hard to get credit here to buy cars or pay rental deposits.
Captain you are just wonderful.
I wonder if me being cheeky and seek a little more advise if you would. I do receive Universal credit approx £645 a month for last couple of years would that be okay and i can get my family to help me with some funding in the bank.
Really a novice so pardon my nerviness
My husband works from home. Even though his company says he needs to be based in the UK i suppose he can do it from Portugal as well. He will get approx£1200 a month. Not sure if that is of any benifit?

Thanks again for your precious time
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 12:28 pm
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by Lou71 View Post
Don't forget that once you are in Portugal, you can freely and easily travel around the borderless Schengen zone.
‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč
Still subject to the limitation of spending no more than 90 days in 180 days in the rest of the Schengen area, and having to report your entry into Spain within 3 days of crossing the border from Portugal.
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 12:47 pm
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Pretty sure any benefits received like universal credit won't count towards income, because I assume you don't receive them when here. Your husbands income would probably qualify him and maybe just about cover you too. But if you have kids, you'd need more. And you'd have to show that income reliably continuing after you move here.

If his company says he needs to be based in the UK, you'd need to discuss with them, as it would be risky to bank on them not finding out he's overseas. Ideally you'd have them pay him ex tax as a self-employed person here in Portugal, he'd declare income and pay taxes here.

But I think as others suggested, better to look for the Irish grandparent if possible, much better way to EU citizenship if you can sort that.
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 12:47 pm
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by Bomber Harris View Post
Still subject to the limitation of spending no more than 90 days in 180 days in the rest of the Schengen area, and having to report your entry into Spain within 3 days of crossing the border from Portugal.
How is the 180 day Schengen rule enforced for non EU nationals who are resident in EU states?

Since when do residents of Portugal have to report their entry into Spain? Please send a link to the form than has to be completed and perhaps someone can come forward and explain exactly how they completed this procedure, where they did it etc.

Presumably you are resident in Portugal and have done this yourself? Where, when and how?

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Old Sep 15th 2021, 1:04 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by captainflack View Post
The third option, is that you come here, get a job, start working and then start a process to normalize this legally. It is possible, but it's not easy or quick. Because your 90 day schengen visa will certainly have expired way before your status is legal, you are in a grey area for a long, long time. Technically in Portugal you are legal as long as you have started the process with SEF (even if that process eventually fails) while things are pending. But only in Portugal. It means you basically cannot leave Portugal because you won't get back in, and you don't even want to cross a border going into Spain, because if you get picked up there, they won't care what you say to them about SEF, your schengen visa is not valid, and you'll get deported because you're not there legally.
Yes, this is what I mentioned in passing yesterday, but not in as much detail, when it seemed to be the chosen route of the OP.

I think that in addition to being strictly confined to remaining in Portugal until the process is complete, which might take years, there would be problems with registering in the public health system and with exchanging a drivers' licence. You couldn't legally drive on a UK licence after 6 months, which, if recent reports are anything to go by would be hopelessly optimistic in terms of officially resolving the situation. I suppose you could get by without being in the public health system if you were prepared in case of need to pay for private GP consultations and pay the full cost of any prescribed meds but it could work out quite costly if you have, or developed, any condition which required regular attention and treatment.
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 5:12 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by Lou71 View Post
Since when do residents of Portugal have to report their entry into Spain?
‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč
Since June 1985 when the Schengen acquis came into being, Article 22.2 states
"Aliens resident in the territory of one of the Contracting Parties who enter the territory of another Contracting Party shall be required to report to the authorities, as laid down in paragraph 1."
And Spain stipulates that reporting of entry must be made
"Esta declaraci√≥n podr√° efectuarse en el momento de la entrada o en el plazo de tres d√≠as h√°biles, a partir de la misma, en funci√≥n de la apreciaci√≥n del Estado en cuyo territorio entren.En Espa√Īa esta declaraci√≥n se realizar√° en cualquier Comisar√≠a de Polic√≠a o en las Oficinas de Extranjeros en el plazo mencionado, si no se hubiese efectuado en el momento de la entrada."
More in depth info on the Guía de Trámites published by the Spanish Interior Ministry.
http://www.interior.gob.es/documents...e-beadd8d75d0c

EDIT - I should clarify that this rule applies to third country citizens, and UK citizens became third country citizens when the Withdrawal Agreement ended on 31/12/20.

Last edited by Bomber Harris; Sep 15th 2021 at 5:32 pm.
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