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Residency after Brexit

Residency after Brexit

Old Sep 14th 2021, 10:43 am
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Thumbs up Residency after Brexit

Guys,
I am British as we all here are and want to get a Portuguese residency as you all may have guessed why. Now after Brexit I am told that if I come to Portugal and arrange NIF, Junta, Social, Bank account, and job contract I can apply for a 5-year residency certificate from Camara/ municipal if I pay tax for 2-3 months.

Is this correct?

I don't have the funding for Golden Visa or D7 apparently so will need a easier or so to say affordable route.

So i need advise and suggestion from all you wonderful people.


Thank you
Regards
K Jackson
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 10:50 am
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

I am sure that our knowledgeable members will provide you with some useful insights. Although the forum name is British Expats not all members are Brits, we have people from many other countries participating in the forum.

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Old Sep 14th 2021, 10:52 am
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Thanks Rosemary,
For getting me straight. My Bad
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 11:02 am
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by K.Jackson View Post
Thanks Rosemary,
For getting me straight. My Bad
A very natural mistake given the name of the forum.

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Old Sep 14th 2021, 11:19 am
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Start by looking at some official information and advice: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-portugal
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 11:40 am
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Residency is not citizenship, so will not provide you with a backdoor to Europe. Residency (as in registration or tax residency) is of use only if it is you intention to live in Portugal semi- permanently..... but it also brings with it some less desirable aspects (driving licensing, etc.) - so is it your intention to live in Portugal?

I don't know what your experience is of living in Portugal, whether you are comfortable with the language or what your driver is for seeking residency, but I'd suggest that the important issues are where you would want to live within the country, how you would support yourself and whether you can afford to buy a property in the location you desire

Once all this is clear, you can always come for 90 days and see if it suits you - then, if it does, you can look to registration with your local Camara, but be aware that documentation/proof required may vary from one Camara to the next (or even from one official to the next!!)

Basically, try not to run before you can walk!

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Old Sep 14th 2021, 11:45 am
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Thumbs up Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Residency is not citizenship, so will not provide you with a backdoor to Europe. Residency (as in registration or tax residency) is of use only if it is you intention to live in Portugal semi- permanently..... but it also brings with it some less desirable aspects (driving licensing, etc.) - so is it your intention to live in Portugal?

I don't know what your experience is of living in Portugal, whether you are comfortable with the language or what your driver is for seeking residency, but I'd suggest that the important issues are where you would want to live within the country, how you would support yourself and whether you can afford to buy a property in the location you desire

Once all this is clear, you can always come for 90 days and see if it suits you - then, if it does, you can look to registration with your local Camara, but be aware that documentation/proof required may vary from one Camara to the next (or even from one official to the next!!)

Basically, try not to run before you can walk!
Wow Macliam,

Thanks for such detailed advise.

I have friends and family in Faro and friends in Lisbon.

My intention is to eventually acquire the Portuguese Citizenship and passport after so i can move freely in EU and settle where it suits me and my family the best.

If that makes sense.

Please kindly advise difference between residency and citizenship. As i might be a novice in that.
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 12:35 pm
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

I fear you are not going to hear what you want to hear.......

Citizenship means (amongst many other things) that you are a citizen of a country and entitled to a passport..... and, as a citizen of Portugal, entitled to Freedom of Movement within Europe which appears to be your aim..

Residency (or temporary residency as that is what you are asking about) is just a local registration of your presence within Portugal and allows you access to the Portuguese health service on the same basis as a citizen, allows you to remain more than 90 days in every 180 in Portugal and gives you access to certain other benefits - however, it does NOT entitle you to a passport, nor does it override the restrictions that Brexit has placed on your UK citizenship and passport. This "temporary residence" registration is done at a local (Camara) level, but after your first period, you must apply to the Portuguese immigration service for permanent residency - and provide more proff. Some contributors here have this and would be better placed to advise you on that - but even permanent residency will not give you what you seek, ie, Freedom of Movement in the EU.

To gain citizenship, you must apply and be able to satisfy certain conditions - these will vary according to your circumstances (eg, if you are married to a Portuguese citizen, etc.). Again, this is an area where you will need information from someone who has experienced that process - but be assured, it is not a quick process and it will almost certainly require you to prove your residency in Portugal (actual, not theoretical) for several years. Once you have citizenship, you are Portuguese and an EU citizen. However, this is personal it will not extend to your family unless they too can become Portuguese citizens. I am an Irish citizen married to a Portuguese, so already retain my EU citizenship, but I still face many restrictions based on UK residency..... so it's complicated and still a raw issue whilst the UK government treats the EU and EU states as interfering foreigners.

Unfortunately, there's no shortcut to undo the damage Brexit has caused you.
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 12:39 pm
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by K.Jackson View Post
Guys,
I am British as we all here are and want to get a Portuguese residency as you all may have guessed why. Now after Brexit I am told that if I come to Portugal and arrange NIF, Junta, Social, Bank account, and job contract I can apply for a 5-year residency certificate from Camara/ municipal if I pay tax for 2-3 months.

Is this correct?

I don't have the funding for Golden Visa or D7 apparently so will need a easier or so to say affordable route.

So i need advise and suggestion from all you wonderful people.


Thank you
Regards
K Jackson
Residency by registering at the camara is only available to citizens from another EU member state, which Brits aren't now.
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 12:43 pm
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Question Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I fear you are not going to hear what you want to hear.......

Citizenship means (amongst many other things) that you are a citizen of a country and entitled to a passport..... and, as a citizen of Portugal, entitled to Freedom of Movement within Europe which appears to be your aim..

Residency (or temporary residency as that is what you are asking about) is just a local registration of your presence within Portugal and allows you access to the Portuguese health service on the same basis as a citizen, allows you to remain more than 90 days in every 180 in Portugal and gives you access to certain other benefits - however, it does NOT entitle you to a passport, nor does it override the restrictions that Brexit has placed on your UK citizenship and passport. This "temporary residence" registration is done at a local (Camara) level, but after your first period, you must apply to the Portuguese immigration service for permanent residency - and provide more proff. Some contributors here have this and would be better placed to advise you on that - but even permanent residency will not give you what you seek, ie, Freedom of Movement in the EU.

To gain citizenship, you must apply and be able to satisfy certain conditions - these will vary according to your circumstances (eg, if you are married to a Portuguese citizen, etc.). Again, this is an area where you will need information from someone who has experienced that process - but be assured, it is not a quick process and it will almost certainly require you to prove your residency in Portugal (actual, not theoretical) for several years. Once you have citizenship, you are Portuguese and an EU citizen. However, this is personal it will not extend to your family unless they too can become Portuguese citizens. I am an Irish citizen married to a Portuguese, so already retain my EU citizenship, but I still face many restrictions based on UK residency..... so it's complicated and still a raw issue whilst the UK government treats the EU and EU states as interfering foreigners.

Unfortunately, there's no shortcut to undo the damage Brexit has caused you.
I can only imagine how devastating it must be for people like myself. I even thought if i could link myself to an Irish Ancestry as i have often heard my Grandfather saying his father was Irish, but no luck as i am cut away from my family and Ancestry.com cant find me any good.

But as said if i was to land in PT get all the necessary paperwork and start a job and pay tax regularly then i can apply for 5 year residency. Is that correct in your expertise?
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 12:43 pm
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by Bomber Harris View Post
Residency by registering at the camara is only available to citizens from another EU member state, which Brits aren't now.
Thanks Bomber, I forgot that slight problem!

I guess the OP's latest post crossed with yours.....

I can indeed understand how devastating it must to realise the limitations that Brexit has placed on UK citizens, imagine how the Scots feel! Those in NI are able to apply for an Irish passport, because the Republic extends that right to all those born on the island. Unfortunately, Irish citizenship for the foreign-born is also limited - so unless your Grandfather himself had claimed Irish citizenship, that door is also closed to you.

However, you CAN still move to the Republic and work and live there, under the CTA. This would appear your best shot at regaining FoM, as you can apply for citizenship after a period of residency and gain an Irish passport. However, again, this will not be quick and neither will it immediately extend to you family (except your kids will be able to claim Irish citizenship through you).

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but good luck in your endeavour to escape UK isolationism.

Last edited by macliam; Sep 14th 2021 at 12:56 pm.
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 12:45 pm
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Question Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by Bomber Harris View Post
Residency by registering at the camara is only available to citizens from another EU member state, which Brits aren't now.
Hi Bomber,

Thanks for the response. I understand that but an advocate suggested that if i get all the necessary documents then have a job contract and pay regular tax for at least couple of month i can get the residency from the Camara.

I am confused about it. But will much appreciate your expertise.
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 12:50 pm
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by K.Jackson View Post
I can only imagine how devastating it must be for people like myself. I even thought if i could link myself to an Irish Ancestry as i have often heard my Grandfather saying his father was Irish, but no luck as i am cut away from my family and Ancestry.com cant find me any good.

But as said if i was to land in PT get all the necessary paperwork and start a job and pay tax regularly then i can apply for 5 year residency. Is that correct in your expertise?
Like I said in my post, start by looking at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-portugal

Last edited by BillBullock; Sep 14th 2021 at 12:55 pm.
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 1:22 pm
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Default Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by K.Jackson View Post
Thanks for the response. I understand that but an advocate suggested that if i get all the necessary documents then have a job contract and pay regular tax for at least couple of month i can get the residency from the Camara.

I am confused about it. But will much appreciate your expertise.
There is provision in the law for people who have been living and working in Portugal without the proper authorisations in place, to regularise their position (via the border agency, not the local Câmara).

In practice, the process appears to be fraught with difficulties, backlogs and obstacles, as a number of news reports I've seen since the enactment of that law have testified. This to the point where there have been rallies organised protesting against the delays. At the moment, just getting an appointment with SEF, which one needs in order to progress via this route, is nigh-on impossible, with the phone lines shut off most of the time and only being made available briefly to schedule appointments for the luckiest of callers before being closed down again.

Quite how one would go about finding legit employment, accommodation, registering for tax and social security etc without a residency document is a mystery to me - not to mention how you'd get on with registering for healthcare (for which you definitely would need a residence doc). Leaving that aside, though, are you aware that finding work in Portugal might in itself be a problem? Unemployment is quite high here, and without Portuguese or in-demand skills (or both), might be a somewhat tall order. What is it you're proposing to do work-wise?
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Old Sep 14th 2021, 1:33 pm
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Exclamation Re: Residency after Brexit

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
There is provision in the law for people who have been living and working in Portugal without the proper authorisations in place, to regularise their position (via the border agency, not the local Câmara).

In practice, the process appears to be fraught with difficulties, backlogs and obstacles, as a number of news reports I've seen since the enactment of that law have testified. This to the point where there have been rallies organised protesting against the delays. At the moment, just getting an appointment with SEF, which one needs in order to progress via this route, is nigh-on impossible, with the phone lines shut off most of the time and only being made available briefly to schedule appointments for the luckiest of callers before being closed down again.

Quite how one would go about finding legit employment, accommodation, registering for tax and social security etc without a residency document is a mystery to me - not to mention how you'd get on with registering for healthcare (for which you definitely would need a residence doc). Leaving that aside, though, are you aware that finding work in Portugal might in itself be a problem? Unemployment is quite high here, and without Portuguese or in-demand skills (or both), might be a somewhat tall order. What is it you're proposing to do work-wise?
Thats very scary.

But on the flipside my friend in Portugal have his own company and is quite competent that he can get all the paperwork needed in a fairly short time. and also will offer me a job to live by. But he is not sure about the residency and citizenship side of it.

So thats where we stuck...
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