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Relocating to Lisbon

Relocating to Lisbon

Old Sep 18th 2020, 8:51 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

If you REALLY and I mean REALLY want to have the opportunity to live in Lisbon for a period then you will be prepared to make sacrifices : for example, you don't HAVE to have your own self contained place. Of course, if money were no object most of us would prefer our own place.
BUT you can also rent a ROOM in a shared flat. There are landlords who specifically rent out rooms, with shared kitchen and bathroom. and you can find these via online searches. The relative lack of privacy may actually be compensated for by being forced to mix with others ( make sure you find a share where the others are Portuguese ).

You are still mid 20s........... That's a time for shared flats and shared fun.

You can find such a room for maybe €400 pcm, incl bills and wifi.

Portuguese IS an extremely difficult language to understand, but there are people who get by with very little, plus English, which all young people speak anyway. Do you have ANY other languages , like French or Spanish ? even a little ? No use for understanding the spoken language, but a good entrée into understanding the written language.

Do you have any savings, or could you borrow somehow maybe €4,000 Euros to €5,000 ?

That sort of sum, living very frugally, could tide you over for maybe 5 months, maybe supplemented by a bit of waitering or IKEA jobs ?

Once you are in Portugal ( does it have to be Lisbon, by the way ? there are other places which would be a bit cheaper, not least Porto, or even the eastern Algarve in winter you might get a cheapo winter rental ). once you are IN Portugal you can watch local TV with subtitles in Portuguese: eg you can watch programmes like Will and Grace, or The Saint, in English but with Port subtitles. You can pick up quite a bit from that, fairly painlessly. Supplement it with learning the grammar. Most state Universities do year courses in Portuguese for foreigners. Cheap fees. But whether they are still operating this year you would have to check. SOME might be s if you find one move there, rather than Lisbon.

My point is, if you ache to have this experience, of living in Lisbon ( or as I say, base yourself somewhere cheaper for a few months, you can always move to Lisbon later if you insist ) then do it now. Somehow borrow the money to tide you over for a few months whilst you establish residency etc. before the pumpkin hour on 31 December. It can only get more complicated thereafter, especially as you have no obvious source of income. Whereas prior to the 31 Dec you have a legal right to establish yourself in Portugal.

Take advantage of that NOW, while you still can. You never know, it might work out.

Even if it doesn't, well you gave it a go while you were still young. You are bound to regret not having tried more than trying and failing ( and you might not fail, despite all the problems ).

If you can borrow four or five grand then make the move and do it. It's not as if you are giving up a job in the UK.

No one needs three meals a day, esp. in the sunshine. Just have an orange for breakfast and lunch, and dinner for €6 in a workman's caff..
Try it and see, and report back on your findings in due course.





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Old Sep 18th 2020, 9:42 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Originally Posted by dmu
I don't know how it works in Portugal, but in France, landlords want proof that your regular monthly income is at least 3 times the rent, and one Minimum-Wage job wouldn't be sufficient. Savings in the bank are disregarded, as they can be spent from one day to the next.
Sorry to add to the gloom, but fore-warned is fore-armed....
wow really! That makes me wonder how anyone on minimum wage over there manages to survive! I assume they must flat share

No worries, exactly, I’d rather know What I’m getting into before
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 9:51 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

well do you have any objection to flat sharing ? I think it could actually work to your advantage, provided you share with Portuguese people, not other expats.

Also, you have not mentioned what you have to offer employers, by way of qualifications and / or experience work wise.

What jobs have you done since leaving school / university ? Do you have a grounding in any languages apart from English ?
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 10:05 am
  #34  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Originally Posted by riv
If you REALLY and I mean REALLY want to have the opportunity to live in Lisbon for a period then you will be prepared to make sacrifices : for example, you don't HAVE to have your own self contained place. Of course, if money were no object most of us would prefer our own place.
BUT you can also rent a ROOM in a shared flat. There are landlords who specifically rent out rooms, with shared kitchen and bathroom. and you can find these via online searches. The relative lack of privacy may actually be compensated for by being forced to mix with others ( make sure you find a share where the others are Portuguese ).

You are still mid 20s........... That's a time for shared flats and shared fun.

You can find such a room for maybe €400 pcm, incl bills and wifi.

Portuguese IS an extremely difficult language to understand, but there are people who get by with very little, plus English, which all young people speak anyway. Do you have ANY other languages , like French or Spanish ? even a little ? No use for understanding the spoken language, but a good entrée into understanding the written language.

Do you have any savings, or could you borrow somehow maybe €4,000 Euros to €5,000 ?

That sort of sum, living very frugally, could tide you over for maybe 5 months, maybe supplemented by a bit of waitering or IKEA jobs ?

Once you are in Portugal ( does it have to be Lisbon, by the way ? there are other places which would be a bit cheaper, not least Porto, or even the eastern Algarve in winter you might get a cheapo winter rental ). once you are IN Portugal you can watch local TV with subtitles in Portuguese: eg you can watch programmes like Will and Grace, or The Saint, in English but with Port subtitles. You can pick up quite a bit from that, fairly painlessly. Supplement it with learning the grammar. Most state Universities do year courses in Portuguese for foreigners. Cheap fees. But whether they are still operating this year you would have to check. SOME might be s if you find one move there, rather than Lisbon.

My point is, if you ache to have this experience, of living in Lisbon ( or as I say, base yourself somewhere cheaper for a few months, you can always move to Lisbon later if you insist ) then do it now. Somehow borrow the money to tide you over for a few months whilst you establish residency etc. before the pumpkin hour on 31 December. It can only get more complicated thereafter, especially as you have no obvious source of income. Whereas prior to the 31 Dec you have a legal right to establish yourself in Portugal.

Take advantage of that NOW, while you still can. You never know, it might work out.

Even if it doesn't, well you gave it a go while you were still young. You are bound to regret not having tried more than trying and failing ( and you might not fail, despite all the problems ).

If you can borrow four or five grand then make the move and do it. It's not as if you are giving up a job in the UK.

No one needs three meals a day, esp. in the sunshine. Just have an orange for breakfast and lunch, and dinner for €6 in a workman's caff..
Try it and see, and report back on your findings in due course.
Hi riv,

I’ve actually been looking into the shared flat option, and there’s a fair amount of them at much more affordable prices per month in the city centre available right now. So that’s definitely something to consider, plus I’ve stayed in hostels in Southeast Asia and other places in shared accommodation so that wouldn’t be too much of an issue.

I can speak very basic Spanish and German, and I mean very basic. Just enough to ask questions to get somewhere etc nowhere near enough to have any sort of conversation, it’s certainly a regret that I didn’t pick up another language at uni
I’ve heard Portuguese is difficult, I imagine it’s always easier to learn once you live in an area with people who speak it, so you can actually practice when you’re out and about.

I have savings of around 5500 euros to initially help me get by for the first few months, I’d look to stay 6 months minimum and then go from there really.

I wouldn’t say it has to be Lisbon necessarily, but, I’ve traveled to a fair amount of cities around the world and Lisbon in particular was one that just grabbed me and was probably one of my favourite I’ve ever visited. I’m sure anyone who has visited before would agree!

It’s just something I’ve always wanted to pursue, living and working abroad, and I’m prepared to work hard for it and I fully understand that it’s not going to be as plain sailing as the dream often appears.

Like you mentioned, I have no job back here in the UK due to losing it recently because of Covid complications, and work is getting continuously hard to find especially with even more local lockdowns occurring.
Aware that that’s the case for the rest of Europe too.
Just feel like it’s a now or never type situation, I’d rather not have any regrets when I’m older. Worst case scenario it doesn’t work out and I fly home, and look for work here. I don’t feel I have a lot to lose

May I ask if you’re a Lisbon resident or have you relocated to another country?

Thank you for all the information
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 10:06 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Originally Posted by AaronTravel
wow really! That makes me wonder how anyone on minimum wage over there manages to survive! I assume they must flat share

No worries, exactly, I’d rather know What I’m getting into before
Although from March, probably a good insight.
https://www.theportugalnews.com/news...e-cities/53428
The reality of disposable incomes and the cost of living are creating an obstacle for businesses and cities struggling to attract highly qualified labour. According to the National Statistics Institute, in 2019 the average gross salary in Portugal reached 1,276 Euros, growing 2.7 percent, but still almost 64 percent below the European average of 2,091 gross Euros per month, according to the VII Monitor Adecco’s Annual Salary Report. The difference between Portugal and Germany, for example, is 1,518 Euros per month, that is, a worker in Portugal has to work, on average, more than 26 months to have similar income to that of a German worker, in just one year.
The small difference between the average cost of rent in Lisbon and Berlin (13 percent), means that a worker in Lisbon has to work many more hours per month to be able to pay a rental compared to a worker in Berlin.
“The rental price in Portugal has been rising year after year and the analysis of the data we have from 2019 highlights that this trend shows no signs of slowing down, at least in the short term”, said Ömer Kucukdere, founder and CEO of Nestpick. “While this may be good news for homeowners, it is also an indication of how difficult it is today and in the near future for students and young workers to find a place to live in the city at a reasonable cost. Our commitment is to offer a simple and free platform that allows them to search, compare and choose a house to rent that best fits their resources.”
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 10:11 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Originally Posted by riv
well do you have any objection to flat sharing ? I think it could actually work to your advantage, provided you share with Portuguese people, not other expats.

Also, you have not mentioned what you have to offer employers, by way of qualifications and / or experience work wise.

What jobs have you done since leaving school / university ? Do you have a grounding in any languages apart from English ?
Not at all! I’d rather live on my own and have my own space as most people would, but it’s certainly something I’m happy to consider

2 years bar/restaurant experience, one year as supervisor
And most recently I spent 6 and a half years working for a telecom company, as a fully qualified telecom engineer.

Unfortunately any telecom/IT related jobs in Lisbon requires you to speak Portuguese which is expected, and I only speak English which is the biggest hurdle
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 10:22 am
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Originally Posted by Moses2013
Although from March, probably a good insight.
https://www.theportugalnews.com/news...e-cities/53428
The reality of disposable incomes and the cost of living are creating an obstacle for businesses and cities struggling to attract highly qualified labour. According to the National Statistics Institute, in 2019 the average gross salary in Portugal reached 1,276 Euros, growing 2.7 percent, but still almost 64 percent below the European average of 2,091 gross Euros per month, according to the VII Monitor Adecco’s Annual Salary Report. The difference between Portugal and Germany, for example, is 1,518 Euros per month, that is, a worker in Portugal has to work, on average, more than 26 months to have similar income to that of a German worker, in just one year.
The small difference between the average cost of rent in Lisbon and Berlin (13 percent), means that a worker in Lisbon has to work many more hours per month to be able to pay a rental compared to a worker in Berlin.
“The rental price in Portugal has been rising year after year and the analysis of the data we have from 2019 highlights that this trend shows no signs of slowing down, at least in the short term”, said Ömer Kucukdere, founder and CEO of Nestpick. “While this may be good news for homeowners, it is also an indication of how difficult it is today and in the near future for students and young workers to find a place to live in the city at a reasonable cost. Our commitment is to offer a simple and free platform that allows them to search, compare and choose a house to rent that best fits their resources.”
That’s interesting, noticed that article was dated at the start of the pandemic
Would be interested to see what the forecast is now and for the next few months
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 11:36 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

You can forget rentals getting significantly cheaper than they are : everything is a market, and the fact is that the rental market in the big cities in Portugal ( plus knock on effect in surrounding areas ) is an international one, driven by the people who DO have high incomes and can afford rentals of €1,000 to €2,000 per month.

If you can accept to just find a room in a share ( NB NB NB in your case this MUST be with Portuguese ppl, not expats ) and you have five grand savings then you just need to get on with it and start, and establish residency at your local Camara.

Have you checked online to see if any of the major universities are still offering their Curso Anual de Língua Portuguesa para Estrangeiros ? These MAY have been suspended for this academic year but CHECK online to find out. Porto is where I would start. But also Lisbon does one. And Coimbra ( in normal years ).

Just accept that the first month or so you must spend in intensive study of Portuguese, whether with courses, or grammar books, and combined with a lot of watching imported programmes on TV which are always broadcast in English with Portuguese subtitles.

You offering to employers is VERY VERY limited at the moment : however, you might just find something with the sort of company which caters mostly to expats : for example estate agents - you could accompany expats on viewings, and there might just be an Agent who needs someone badly enough to overlook the lack of Portuguese.
This is something you can mostly find b knocking on doors once in Portugal.
You might also find a very very basic job in a restaurant, starting by washing dishes, but with some waitering. Again, you have very little to offer compared to a local who speaks English well as well as Portuguese native tongue. BUT by asking around you just might find someone who needed someone that day. Restaurants do put notices in windows ' empregado/a precisa-se ' and so on.

Basic Spanish is a start. BUY now a basic Portuguese for Beginners textbook, and also check out the BBC free offerings online.

IF there are any Universities still offering Portuguese for Foreigners then those courses will start very early october. So there is not a minute to lose in searching for these. If you find one GRAB IT WITH BOTH HANDS. The Fees ' propina' are minimal. And it would give you a bit of structure to the day, while still leaving plenty of time to look for work.
The Professors might even know friends who need a cleaner, or help painting a wall. You never know. You have to take the plunge and START.

You are NOT going to find a perfect solution; but if you are prepared to slum it for a few months you could have an enjoyable experience even so. It's all part of life's rich tapestry !

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Old Sep 18th 2020, 12:07 pm
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Originally Posted by riv
You can forget rentals getting significantly cheaper than they are : everything is a market, and the fact is that the rental market in the big cities in Portugal ( plus knock on effect in surrounding areas ) is an international one, driven by the people who DO have high incomes and can afford rentals of €1,000 to €2,000 per month.

If you can accept to just find a room in a share ( NB NB NB in your case this MUST be with Portuguese ppl, not expats ) and you have five grand savings then you just need to get on with it and start, and establish residency at your local Camara.

Have you checked online to see if any of the major universities are still offering their Curso Anual de Língua Portuguesa para Estrangeiros ? These MAY have been suspended for this academic year but CHECK online to find out. Porto is where I would start. But also Lisbon does one. And Coimbra ( in normal years ).

Just accept that the first month or so you must spend in intensive study of Portuguese, whether with courses, or grammar books, and combined with a lot of watching imported programmes on TV which are always broadcast in English with Portuguese subtitles.

You offering to employers is VERY VERY limited at the moment : however, you might just find something with the sort of company which caters mostly to expats : for example estate agents - you could accompany expats on viewings, and there might just be an Agent who needs someone badly enough to overlook the lack of Portuguese.
This is something you can mostly find b knocking on doors once in Portugal.
You might also find a very very basic job in a restaurant, starting by washing dishes, but with some waitering. Again, you have very little to offer compared to a local who speaks English well as well as Portuguese native tongue. BUT by asking around you just might find someone who needed someone that day. Restaurants do put notices in windows ' empregado/a precisa-se ' and so on.

Basic Spanish is a start. BUY now a basic Portuguese for Beginners textbook, and also check out the BBC free offerings online.

IF there are any Universities still offering Portuguese for Foreigners then those courses will start very early october. So there is not a minute to lose in searching for these. If you find one GRAB IT WITH BOTH HANDS. The Fees ' propina' are minimal. And it would give you a bit of structure to the day, while still leaving plenty of time to look for work.
The Professors might even know friends who need a cleaner, or help painting a wall. You never know. You have to take the plunge and START.

You are NOT going to find a perfect solution; but if you are prepared to slum it for a few months you could have an enjoyable experience even so. It's all part of life's rich tapestry !
But let's be honest, washing dishes will not really improve your life and CV. Now's the time to really make money and learn skills that will improve your life later on and at 26 moving from Telecom/IT to washing dishes is pointless. Then 3 years pass, you are nearly 30 and are still broke and have to compete with people who are better. Actually learning a language like German will give you more opportunities and better pay in Portugal than learning Portuguese (which you can still learn later). Expand your knowledge in Telecom/IT and especially Cloud Communication is a good way to go. You could just move to an another EU country now if you get a job that's decent and take it from there. When you have enough cash saved, you could even buy a small pad in Portugal.
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 12:15 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Originally Posted by AaronTravel
wow really! That makes me wonder how anyone on minimum wage over there manages to survive! I assume they must flat share

No worries, exactly, I’d rather know What I’m getting into before
Single people still live with their parents, a couple can live on two minimum wages,.... It's more difficult for students needing to move to a university town, in which case they might get grants, and for expats of any nationality who don't have family as a safety net.
I agree with riv that, if you go the flat-share route, choose an exclusively Portuguese "community", otherwise you won't learn the language and your work prospects would never improve. Your flatmates will be pleased to try out their English while helping you with Portuguese (at the start....)
Put by enough money to pay for your return to the UK in case things don't work out....
HTH
Good luck!
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 12:19 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

BUT he has a desire to live in Portugal, Lisbon if possible.

That is not an unreasonable desire, Lisbon being one of the most beautiful cities in the world.
And if he establishes residence NOW, prior to end of December, then that removes a lot of bureaucratic obstacles for the future.

Not everything is about money, albeit SOME money or prospects of same is necessary.

I would go so far as to say that if he has a choice between remaining on the dole in the UK, and washing dishes for six months in Portugal ( whilst learning Portuguese to the highest possible standard ) then the latter option will stand him in far better stead.
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 12:31 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Originally Posted by riv
BUT he has a desire to live in Portugal, Lisbon if possible.

That is not an unreasonable desire, Lisbon being one of the most beautiful cities in the world.
And if he establishes residence NOW, prior to end of December, then that removes a lot of bureaucratic obstacles for the future.

Not everything is about money, albeit SOME money or prospects of same is necessary.

I would go so far as to say that if he has a choice between remaining on the dole in the UK, and washing dishes for six months in Portugal ( whilst learning Portuguese to the highest possible standard ) then the latter option will stand him in far better stead.
Posts crossed!
- I had momentarily forgotten Brexit. Yes, he should come ASAP to establish residence before the deadline, after which a Work Visa might be necessary...
- Put like that, it would be a good plan, provided he learns the language in depth, not just conversation with flatmates.
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 12:40 pm
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Originally Posted by riv
BUT he has a desire to live in Portugal, Lisbon if possible.

That is not an unreasonable desire, Lisbon being one of the most beautiful cities in the world.
And if he establishes residence NOW, prior to end of December, then that removes a lot of bureaucratic obstacles for the future.

Not everything is about money, albeit SOME money or prospects of same is necessary.

I would go so far as to say that if he has a choice between remaining on the dole in the UK, and washing dishes for six months in Portugal ( whilst learning Portuguese to the highest possible standard ) then the latter option will stand him in far better stead.
Sure it's not always about money but you can afford multiple properties and have a small villa in Portugal. We all have a desire and I wouldn't mind being on the beach now but I still need a job and wouldn't have been able to afford the property in Spain if I had worked there the last 10 years.
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 2:02 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Originally Posted by riv
Portuguese IS an extremely difficult language to understand...
I'm going to take issue with this.

It really isn't any more difficult a language than any other of the European languages with which English has common roots, and is a darned sight easier on those grounds alone than any completely unrelated language. There are very few sounds (a couple of nasal vowels / diphthongs being the exception) that do not occur in spoken English, and the grammar is broadly similar to that of other romance languages and to English.

Any language is difficult to pick up from scratch when you're an adult but Portuguese is not exceptional in any way and is a darned sight easier for an English speaker to get a handle on than many another. At least you don't have to sing it (like Italian ).
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Old Sep 18th 2020, 2:39 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Relocating to Lisbon

Cheers for all the feedback, it’s certainly opened my eyes up to a lot of things involved

I think my plan is to try to get back over to Lisbon in the next 2 weeks and stay In an Airbnb for a few days/to a week and ask around while I’m there on all things concerning jobs available to me, viewing any property etc. I’ll look into getting on a language course over there too!

The brexit issue is forcing my hand really, don’t have a lot of time to waste, when ideally I would of looked to of made the potential move early next year/early spring


I know most of this can be done online from the UK, but I think it’d be beneficial to make another visit

Please keep throwing any further info this way, any info is helpful one way or another, all been great so far!
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