sherbert

We'll be buying property in Portugal within the next couple of months, with the aim of moving there at some point in the future (currently in the US).

My application for citizenship will be filed soon. I'm worried that, as a UK citizen (married to PT citizen), that if I do not move there by the end of 2020, I will face some issues because that's the deadline for UK citizens to move freely around the EU.

If I register myself at the new property but am not actually living there, will this cause any issues?

mfesharne

Yes. Lots & could even get you jailed but if married to a PT citizen no need to do so as the PT citizen can register residency any time & spouse is entitled to residency under the reunification of family rules & citizenship through marriage anyway.

Effectively, Brexit isn't an issue at all in your case.

Diddion

...and might there also be potential tax issues? Furthermore, you would start an NHR clock ticking - if this is important to you, and if it still exists in some form or another

sherbert

Why could it get me jailed? What are the implications?

As en EU citizen (for the next few days ha!) I still have the right to live and work in the EU until the end of 2020. Don't expect my citizenship to come through for 1.5 years at least.

I was thinking more along the lines of tax implications etc.

Good to know about the reunification.

sherbert

Ah. Right. But then wouldn't it be better to get NHR underway asap incase it's no longer available next year?

mfesharne

You can'tget NHR until resident anyway so why worry.Article 348a

1. Any person who falsely declares or attests to public authority or an official in the exercise of his or her identity, state or other capacity to which the law attributes legal effects, whether own or others, shall be punished with imprisonment for up to one year or with a fine. , if a more serious penalty does not fall under another legal provision.
2 - If the statements are intended to be recorded in an authentic document, the agent is punished with imprisonment for up to two years or with a fine.

mfesharne

And you're legally entitled to both residenct & citizenship anyway so why even consider misleading the authorities?

sherbert

I don't understand why it would be 'misleading' the authorities if I a) own the house outright and b) have every intention of making Portugal my permanent home and c) I don't need a visa to live there!

But thanks for the info: I guess I do not need to panic about it as I will be able to reside there as I am married to a PT citizen.

Diddion

Nobody can advise you on the potential cessation or alteration of NHR yet, because nobody knows whether any changes would apply now, from another date (I saw a suggestion of 1 March), from the date of any such announcement, from 1 January 2020, from 1 January 2021, from the beginning of time, or never.

Whilst it has its peculiarities, Portugal does have a pretty extensive and often well integrated computer system which underpins its bureaucracy, so bear this in mind. Given the extensive uncertainties it would obviously be wise to obtain NHR asap. But I would pay attention to mfesharne’s wise words, because I suspect that to live in one country and to claim residency in another might be seen as fraudulent - not just a minor transgression. With a DTT existing between the two countries do you think it possible - even after Brexit - that there might not be some interchange of tax information? As a resident here, you would, of course, have to submit a tax return, but would of course have no evidence of actually living here if asked.

I am sympathetic with your concerns, but this is a potentially explosive strategy.

mfesharne

It's Section 2 that really bites you in th bum the most because you would be registering residency as in committing a false address to an official document:

"2 - If the statements are intended to be recorded in an authentic document, the agent is punished with imprisonment for up to two years or with a fine."

As I see it, you have the right to both residency & citizenship anyway & Brexit won't affect you & you can only get NHR once a registered resident so not much (if anything) you can do before anyway................... So why worry or try to beat the system.

And FWIW, the Govt debate & tinker with the NHR system most years & equally, the media trot out the same hysterical BS that it is about to be cancelled & then it isn't.

If I were you, I'd do absolutely nothing at this point except perhaps look forward to living in Portugal when you can.

mfesharne

At the risk of going off topic & of sounding like I'm splitting hairs, I note you use the term 'EU Citizen' but it's important people realise there is no such thing despite the fact that even the EU use that term a LOT in their legislation.

If you look at the definition of the word 'Citizen' it's "a person who is a member of a particular country and who has rights because of being born there or because of being given rights, or a person who lives in a particular town or city:" and whilst every EU member state is a country, the EU isn't and each member state has it's own different variation of citizen's rights.

Which in turn means (for example) that if a Portuguese citizen moved to Holland & tried to claim reunification for his spouse as a right according to the Citizen's rights of Portugal, then Holland would give them the big voetsak.

So although that doesn't sound important at first, it actually is very important in some cases.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...nglish/citizen

liveaboard

In my experience, what the PT authorities are concerned with in your case is that your marriage is genuine; there has been a lot of immigration fraud.
They aren't frantic, just have paper demonstrating you lived at the same address for a while, anything else like old pictures, wedding photos, joint bank statements are great, help them help you and everyone is happy.

If you register your address a few months early, no one will notice and no one in Portugal will care. But as said above, for you it makes no difference.

Who might care is the UK authorities, because your tax residence would change, which gets complicated. You might commit tax fraud while still paying the same amount of tax.

Red Eric

There are EU rules about family reunification which every member state must abide by. They cover rights of EU citizens to have non-EU family members reside with them in all member states.

The only exception to the rules is that member states can decide their own rules on rights of non EU family members of nationals of their own state.

Hence the situation as applies in the UK, for example, where it is harder for a UK national to bring in non EU family members than it is for an EU citizen of any other nationality to do so.

mfesharne

I think you perhaps miss my point......... The residency/reunification of family rules/rights in Holland are VERY different to those of Portugal.

The former are fairly restrictive & dependent on a number of things including (IIRC) a language test etc whilst the latter is remarkably lax & a whilst a PT citizen can register residency in Holland reasonably easily, the Dutch rules for reunification will apply when he/she tries to get residency for the non EU spouse rather than the PT rules.

Using the term EU Citizen or expecting EU Citizen's rights can be a minefield of trouble IMO.

RichardHenshall

https://ind.nl/en/eu-eea/Pages/Famil...tionality.aspx

I've searched the page but can't find 'voetsak' on it.