appman999

As I understand it after Brexit (Deal or No Deal, thank you Noel) UK visitors will not need a visa to visit Schengen states but will be restricted to the usual 90 days in 180.

However this may not suit property owners who wish to spend 4 or 5 winter months in Portugal.

Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of getting a longer term visa for this purpose (but not becoming resident with all that entails).

I haven't managed to find anything applicable on the SEF website and obviously it hasn't applied to UK citizens to date.

Loafing Along

Look here on the SEF website , maybe it will help :
https://imigrante.sef.pt/en/prorrogar-permanencia/
"Foreign citizens who have been admitted in national territory under the provisions of this Act and wish to remain in the Country for a period which exceeds that originally permitted may be granted an extension of stay."

• Limits to the extension of stay: up to 90 days, which can be extended for another 90 days

appman999

Thanks for that. I had seen this but don't know if I could apply for a short term 90 day tourist visa as we will have visa free access.

The bigger problem is that it only says they may grant an extension.

Obviously I would rather pay for a 6 month visa and be sure.

However your answer has made me think. We normally visit for a few months, fly back for Xmas, and then return for a few more months.

I wonder whether it is possible to get a short term visa for each of those visits even though they are only separated by a few weeks.

appman999

When I go to the www.vfsglobal.com/Portugal/UK website (money making machine that is!) to apply for a tourist visa it only offers me a Schengen visa (assuming I'm not a full UK citizen entitled to freedom of movement)

Given that we are supposed to retain visa free travel post Brexit, I can't see that changing?

Pgmills

wellinever

hi
The only help I can offer is that a few months ago, whilst waiting in a queue at Leroy Merlin, I got chatting to some retirees from Canada.
They were renting in Albufeira and had been for 6 months. I asked how they managed to do that being Non EU residents. They explained that they get a 3month visa each year when first arrive in Portugal, and during that time they go to SEF in Albufeira and pay €80 and get an extra 90 days. I think they have to have health insurance to cover their stay, and proof of rental.
So, being in a similar position to yourself, whilst there last I went to SEF albufeira and talked to a rep there. She was not really helpful but told me to go another place where they would tell me what to do if I wanted to do this in future. I found the place (close by) but to be honest it was in a condominium of rather dubious nature and I dare not leave my car there. so came away.
But of course I am not sure how not needing a visa after Brexit affects this option to extend.
Don`t know if this helps but would appreciate any info you manage to find out, as I have looked at the schengen calculator and the way it works does not suit me at all.

appman999

Advise elsewhere suggests you cannot be resident in 2 countries at once (I'm not sure I agree with this but can't find definitive proof either way) and I wish to remain resident in the UK.

Also residence means I cannot drive my UK registered car in Portugal (and no, I don't want to leave my newish car in the UK for half a year and buy a cheap runaround in Portugal)​​​​​​.

I actually don't plan to be here for more than 3 months in a row, my overwintering will be split in two at Xmas with a total of less than 6 months.

appman999

Thanks for that, obviously people are doing it then. Canadians are in the same position as we hope the UK is, where there is visa free access as Schengen.

Can you remember the place you were sent to, we are near Albufeira so could pop in when we return in October?

Red Eric

The rule you're going to have to abide by post-Brexit will be the 90 days in any 180, so your few months with a short Christmas interlude elsewhere doesn't look to me as though it's going to be possible without explicit authorisation.

With regard to the business of citizens from visa exempt countries, the same rules apply and breaking them does carry the threat of sanctions even if they're not necessarily always applied. (I know you'll be trying to comply with, as opposed to break any rules but I'm just alerting that not knowing or assuming something and thus inadvertently contravening might not be a good idea). This link has the low-down on that, and although it's not an official EU website, seems to hold pretty comprehensive and reliable information : What are the consequences of overstaying in Schengen Area?

I was casting around for anything in Portuguese and came across advice to Brazilians, who are Schengen-visa exempt. Seems they can fairly easily get a request granted to remain in Portugal (that doesn't include travel in the rest of the Schengen Zone) but the article is aimed at one-off situations rather than an annual or regular request. I'll put a link to it here for completeness, in case you or anybody is interested in the full rundown : Visto em Portugal: Como prorrogar e ficar mais de 90 dias em Portugal

wellinever

hi
Sorry I cannot remember the name and am in UK at the mo. but am also popping back in October, maybe before, and I have the flimsy bit of paper the SEF gave me. I will post it to you then. All I remember (i hardly dare get out of my car !!) is that there was a small football/basketball outdoor court there.
But might I suggest you go to the SEF building first, as my thoughts were it very much depended on who you talk to there, but it can be very busy. But they have the directions.
If you dont know SEF is very close to Aqualab blood place which is up the road from the Pingo Doce roundabout.
I, like you, dont really understand why the need to register as resident after 90 days. As you say, you cannot be a resident in 2 countries at the same time, and certainly not a tax resident.


.

appman999

Red Eric
The Brazilian link amplifies what others have said earlier about extending a visa but also explains that you can extend a Schengen visa which had been my sticking point.

When looking more deeply I came across Law No. 23/2007, of July 4th which covers 'ENTRY, PERMANENCE, EXIT AND REMOVAL OF FOREIGNERS FROM THE NATIONAL TERRITORY'

Article 72 Clause 1, d) says that the extension of stay may be granted up to 90 days, extendable for an equal period, if the person concerned holds a short-stay visa or has been admitted to the country without requiring a visa;

While this doesn't address the 'may be granted' it does cover the visa free entry. I'll have to work on my calendar.

appman999

For those who want to check the law out here is the link.

​​​​​​::: Lei n.º 23/2007, de 04 de Julho

appman999

According to SEF website ' Citizens who have entered the country without a visa requirement shall schedule a meeting to extend their period of stay through SEF’s Call Centre.' from 08:00 a.m. to 08:00 p.m.

Apparently it's hard to get through but that appears to be the way to go.

wellinever

I think you will find that no one ever answers you on the phone. But by all means give it a go. Best to go to the local SEF office yourself.

Red Eric

Yes, the law reserves the right of the authorities not to grant an extension of stay but (pure conjecture alert!) I suspect they will be alive to the fact that there must be any number of British property owners who'd like to be able to spend more than the automatic 90 days here without becoming fully resident (and have been doing down the years ) and there doesn't seem to be any particularly compelling reason for them to refuse to grant such a request, given that they appear to be already doing so for other nationalities.

The noises coming from the government re: post Brexit arrangements are generally very warm, if that's any consolation.