Jonny22

Some 12 years ago when we bought our house we were told by our then lawyer that it wasn’t necessary to have a separate PT will as our U.K. wills would suffice. Obviously things move on and I have heard of rule changes and of horror stories of probate taking years if relying on a U.K. will. So my questions are

Should we get separate PT wills? Would this be prudent or necessary?
Do we need to see a lawyer or solicitor to sort this out? Any idea of cost?

The Montepio website would seem to indicate that we could take our existing U.K. wills to a notary and have them attested and registered for around €160 each without the need to have legal help.

Any thoughts / experiences appreciated.

mfesharne

UK style wills now seem to apply in Portugal if containing the words “"According to the laws of the United Kingdom as provided for under the EU Succession Regulations, 650/2012 Article 22.”




https://www.judicaregroup.com/2017-02-european-wills

bejaboz

When we had our wills completed two years ago. Our PT lawyer advised us a British will is lawful in PT, but recommended it be translated into Portuguese as a will in English can cause difficulties and take longer to be processed when you've passed on, so we took the advice to hopefully reduce complications at what will be a difficult time for a family.


I had my wife and my wills translated to Portuguese using a British translation company I found on the web and took these to PT for our lawyer. We saw the local Notary and had the wills notarised and registered in PT and she also retained a copy. We sat with the Notary who read through the translated wills to ensure we understood their contents and that completed the process.


Cost of two wills translated to Portuguese was £40 and the cost in PT with our lawyer and notary was about €300.


Hope this helps.

Jonny22

That’s very helpful and thank you. That’s probably the route we’ll follow. I was just a bit concerned that I’d heard through Portuguese friends that inheritance laws are quite restrictive (Napoleonic Code) in that if one partner passes over then the spouse doesn’t have automatic rights to the property and even antecedents may have a claim. She cited an example where a man passed away and his wife had to sell the house to pay an aunt a portion. So if a UK will overrides all that all is good. She also mentioned that inter-spouse interitance is also subject to a 10% tax. I have no idea if that is true or not, need to do more research on that one.

liveaboard

Wow; it's amazing what they can do these days!

bejaboz

I believe this is true with PT law when someone dies. If there's property involved it potentially can cover almost everyone in the family wanting a share.

Red Eric

No - that is not correct.

Parents, children and spouses (including common-law spouses) are exempt from the 10% stamp duty levied on other heirs.

Double T

Hi Jonny, was wondering how you got on with the Wills process. I too am in Tavira and struggling to find an economic but legally satisfactory solution for getting very simple Wills written for my wife and myself. We both have UK Wills so only need Wills with references to them as per Brussels IV etc etc
PM if you prefer.
Cheers, Matthew

bejaboz

Matthew,

Our lawyer suggested we use our UK wills translated into Portuguese to ease the process should they unfortunately be required and you still have assets in PT when you pass on. We did this as I explained in my previous post and had the wills notarised in PT. For the cost involved it seemed good value to us to remove any language obstacles that might arise.
I would mention one thing I didn't include in my earlier message. Following the recommendation of our UK solicitor, if you have assets in the UK, house, bank account etc., separate your UK assets from the PT ones, so our PT wills were exactly as the UK ones but with a clear statement the wills only related to the country the assets were in, and the British wills were amended the same.
Whether this is necessary perhaps depends on the value of your assets and IHT rules at the time the wills become relevant.

BB

Double T

Hi BB and thanks for responding.

From what I understand my UK assets will not incur any Inheritance Tax in the UK.

What I was expecting, perhaps misguided, was that a Portuguese Will for each of us (my wife and I), would just be a simple paragraph or two. It would include something along the lines of....
A declaration of mutual Wills with my wife
Reference to the Brussels IV "(According to the laws of the United Kingdom as provided for under the EU Succession Regulations, 650/2012 Article 22.)" which would include the wording to apply the succession laws and distribution of our assets according to our country of nationality (British).

What it must not do is to include the revoking of our UK Wills.

In our UK Wills, the definition of our estate currently reads as "All my property of every kind wherever situate, the money investments and property from time to time representing all such property" , so if a Portuguese Will is written to simply refer to our UK Wills, then why should it be necessary to make reference to assets (property and money) held in Portugal?

I then had the thought that a complete translation to Portuguese of a UK Will would likely to be unnecessary and may complicate matters a bit? Especially as it refers to Executors, Gift of Residue etc etc

I'm open to comments to anyone who disagrees or has similar doubts!

Thanks,
Matthew

bejaboz

Matthew,

It depends on your personal circumstances whether IHT is a factor, but if the two countries assets total in excess of the IHT no tax amount it could be, then splitting the assets in the wills would be a consideration.

Our main reason for having a will translated and notarised was to minimise potential delay when a will becomes a factor on one od us dying. My understanding from our lawyer, was the authorities in PT will process things more promptly if documents are in Portuguese and if notarised, there is a further element of it being legally recognised and recorded.

As always though, it is better to be aware of any potential legal pitfalls in advance and advice from a trustworthy lawyer is a route to be considered.

I think helpful advice on forums is always useful, but always needs confirming by those with the requisite professional knowledge.

I wish you well in your deliberations on what you decide to do.

BB

Double T

Many thanks BB for your comments.

Diddion

Double T

Hi Diddion, yes thank you I was aware of this fact. My query was largely to do with the Will writing here in Portugal which I have yet to do, as the UK Will is separate form my PT assets.
Cheers,
Matthew

Pistolpete2

I want thank you for this Diddion, because for me the re-statement of the fact that I can no longer shake off UK Domicile with a reminder that my spouse is a Non-dom for IHT has caused me to have to completely re-evaluate how I want my estate to be arranged from here on in and what MY Portuguese Will should look like in terms of what assets are in it.

Of course it also suggests that I should IF POSSIBLE look to reside in Portugal asap (without personally owning much if anything there) to start getting things in order.