Pistolpete2

The Guardian has broken a story at 10:40 gmt that

UK nationals in Italy assured of residency in event of no Brexit deal

British nationals settled in Italy have landed a new year Brexit break after the Italian government announced they would remain legal residents of the country in the event of no deal.

Obviously journalism has its faults/shortcomings in terms of detail but this confuses me regarding Portugal since the indication is that Italy are the FIRST country to break ground on granting UK citizens assured residency whether the UK reciprocates or not.

Does that mean that there are also some UK citizens in Portugal who simply do not expect their existing residency rights to continue post a no-deal Brexit unless Portugal now, in turn, specifically states that their residency is protected no matter what the UK does, or only those who will not have gained residency for one reason or another in good time for Brexit but who might want to remain resident.

Red Eric

In the PT news today is the Minister for Foreign Affairs quoted on that very topic, saying a full announcement will be made later this month, taking into account developments at Westminster and that a campaign has been prepared, aimed at UK nationals and designed to safeguard their rights in the event of withdrawal either with or without an agreement. However, for the meantime, he says that anybody who is resident and with a permanent resident card need not do anything, come what may but that those who haven't yet formally registered their presence with the municipal authorities should do so.

It's not yet being reported on the English language websites so here's a link to the Público article on the subject.

"Brexit": Portugal divulga este mês plano de contingência

The Graun article doesn't actually mention what would happen in the event of the UK refusing to guarantee already-established residency rights of Italians - it just mentions the no deal scenario. Same with Portugal. I should think they both presume that the UK wouldn't be chucking anybody out even with no withdrawal agreement. Or at least not immediately, anyway

Pistolpete2

Just to clarify then, he is saying that ONLY permanent resident card holders have residency which is 'perfected' and (temporary) residency card holders could possibly be detrimentally treated if the UK throws a wobbly on like PT citizens in the UK? That is why they are waiting for further 'guidance' from Westminster.

Red Eric

No, not at all. The (presumably extremely remote) scenario of the UK point blank refusing to recognise the residency rights of EU nationals in the UK isn't mentioned, so hypothetical retaliatory action doesn't arise.

It isn't "guidance" from Westminster that's awaited - it's the outcome of the vote on the Withdrawal Agreement, at which time some assumptions might - at least temporarily - need to be made and catered for.

AliceCaroline

There is a policy paper on citizens rights in the event of a no deal Brexit.

I'll add a link to the pdf but this bit is positive news...
EU citizens in the UK in a ‘no deal’ scenario 7. We have always been clear that we highly value the contributions EU citizens make to the social, economic and cultural fabric of the UK and that we want them to stay in the UK. To remove any ambiguity, the UK Government guarantees that EU citizens resident in the UK by 29 March 2019 will be able to stay and we will take the necessary steps to protect their rights even in a unlikely ‘no deal’ scenario. 8. To achieve this, the UK will continue to run the EU Settlement Scheme for those resident in the UK by 29 March 2019 in a ‘no deal’ scenario. The basis for qualifying for status under the scheme will remain the same as proposed in a ‘deal’ scenario and will be focused on residence in the UK. This means that any EU citizen living in the UK by 29 March 2019 will be eligible to apply to this scheme, securing their status in UK law.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...eal_Brexit.pdf

So I'm thinking if the UK say "The UK Government guarantees that EU citizens resident in the UK by 29 March 2019 will be able to stay and we will take the necessary steps to protect their rights even in a unlikely ‘no deal’ scenario" then the EU countries will be happy to do the same.

007Steve

... Hopefully that's how it should work R.E. To date, PT has indicated a fairly relaxed attitude to legally present Brits who choose to stay on. Let's hope that "extremely remote scenario" doesn't alter though. The reaction of the current UK Govt on even seeing the word Citizen seems to send them up to psychotic levels.

Red Eric

I've never given any credence to the notion that anybody was going to be run out of any country in the event of a no agreement withdrawal - there long seems to have been a tacit acceptance that those who are resident on Brexit day have an established right to remain and it's just a matter of sorting out what procedures to apply in order to formalise that right (as indeed is evidenced at least so far as the UK goes by that excerpt and link provided by AliceCaroline above). I do think there might be people whose situations are not quite so clear-cut as others and that problems could arise in the future for them or family members (and I'm thinking most particularly about cases that might arise in the UK here unfortunately). And of course there may be those who simply fail for one reason or another to complete the necessary paperwork successfully and run into problems later on as a result. However, I think the concentration solely on the right to reside (as though it's some huge concession) rather obscures the other issues surrounding citizens' rights post-Brexit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007Steve

To date, PT has indicated a fairly relaxed attitude to legally present Brits who choose to stay on.

I'm not sure I agree with the terminology here but I'm probably being over-pedantic. All Brits resident in Portugal are legally present, even if they haven't fulfilled the obligation to formally register that presence (or, in some cases maybe, comply with others of their obligations). Portugal's attitude to the unregistered seems just as relaxed as to the registered and all the authorities have done is issue a very gentle nudge to remind people to register if they've …. er …"forgotten", in order to safeguard their future right to residence on current terms. I'm sure that's something that'll be issued more directly and with more urgency in due course.

As far as the already-registered go, Portugal appears so far to be taking a more laissez faire attitude than some, including the UK, in that there's no mention yet of having to go through a separate registration process and they appear to be happy with letting the documents we already have serve. That sounds pretty sensible to me although there may be something I've missed or is yet to be announced or some legal reason why that can't happen longer term or something. The ruthlessly efficient Germans have apparently already got a fast-track registration programme or UK citizens up their sleeves in the case of a no agreement withdrawal, so they're obviously not minded that a current-style EU citizen registration does the trick in those circumstances as far as they're concerned. We'll see things more clearly when Portugal reveals its full proposals for the various scenarios in due course.

Pistolpete2

Indeed, per RE above, the pure residency issue would logically be pretty straight-forward in spite of my concerns/paranoia, but the broader concerns would be regarding right to work and that on an even footing with the 'locals' and the right to move about for work purposes, at the very least, within the EU-27 and as stated in 'my' Guardian article.

However, the UK and its principle players such as the Home Secretary and even the Prime Minister, with every passing moment are quite visibly playing to a particular audience who are tough on immigration, for their own political ends and to bolster the interests of the Conservative Party against former UKIP supporters and against a Labour of Diane Abbott and Yvette Cooper, who's views are far more liberal. After all, we are on General Election (Labour biggest wish) and future Prime Minister (if she resigns) footing while also trying to get Brexit done and dusted.

As a result, the harsh environment is still well in place and will colour short-term policy development on Brexit seemingly almost with total disregard for the negative reciprocal position that could thus - in an extreme situation - develop for the million odd Brits out there in the wider EU when the UK turns previous 'promises' 'agreeds' on their heads under a looming no-deal to get some last-minute leverage.

Ukkram

If the deal is accepted then the transition period will apply until 30 June 2021. This means that any EU citizen can still enter the UK until 31 December 2020 and will have 6 months to apply.
I wonder if PT will reciprocate.

Red Eric

Spoken like a true Brexiter.

If there's a deal it's binding on all parties, which means no stopping of FoM in either direction until the end of the transition period and new rules for the future relationship to be agreed before that ends. It's only in the case of a no agreement exit that doubt arises.