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-   -   Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR (https://britishexpats.com/forum/portugal-89/portuguese-mep-asks-commission-investigate-nhr-923109/)

Red Eric Mar 11th 2019 8:48 am

Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Ana Gomes MEP has written to 3 EU Commissioners requesting that they inform the PT government that the Non Habitual Resident tax scheme is in breach of 2 articles of the Charter of Fundamental Rights and instigate an immediate investigation into the negative impacts on Portugal and on other member states.

Can't say I'd hold out too much hope of it's getting a sympathetic or action-packed response (although you never know - they're apparently currently investigating Golden Visa schemes) but it makes for interesting reading :)

Tax dumping in Portugal

dingg Mar 11th 2019 9:43 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Unfortunately for Ana

The scheme does not discriminate at all.

Its open to all individuals no matter what nationality as long as not tax payers in portugal for 5 years.

EMR Mar 11th 2019 12:05 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by dingg (Post 12651373)
Unfortunately for Ana

The scheme does not discriminate at all.

Its open to all individuals no matter what nationality as long as not tax payers in portugal for 5 years.

Yes it does discriminate, it is not available to Portuguese residents.,
Those with incomes much lower than migrants or part time migrants taking advantage of NHR...

dingg Mar 11th 2019 2:08 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
It is open to anyone who has not been tax resident for 5 years..


ANYONE

Thus not discriminatory.

EMR Mar 11th 2019 3:56 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by dingg (Post 12651464)
It is open to anyone who has not been tax resident for 5 years..


ANYONE

Thus not discriminatory.

​​​​​​
Discriminatory unfair and abused.

RichardHenshall Mar 11th 2019 3:59 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12651417)
Yes it does discriminate, it is not available to Portuguese residents. ...

It would be a very generous government that would invent a scheme to give its existing taxpayers a 10-year holiday from tax on foreign income and capped income tax rates for specified professions. Even then, there would be discrimination against those in other professions or without foreign income.

mikemike Mar 12th 2019 2:44 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
This is available to returning Portuguese Citizens, nonresidents who have been out of Portugal for more than 5 years. The same rule applies and is not therefore discriminatory.

I cannot think of a tax set up anywhere that is not discriminatory is some aspects. Nothing illegal about being discriminatory on taxation issues, unless specifically legislated for. where there is room for interpretation, being discriminatory may be the intent.

Red Eric Mar 12th 2019 8:41 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
It's obvious that Ana Gomes is well aware that the scheme is open to Portuguese nationals as she makes a point of mentioning the numbers who have acquired the status in her letter. However, discrimination isn't the only grounds for her complaint - although as a law graduate with a further course specifically on Community Law and years of very active service as an MEP under her belt, we can probably assume she knows both what constitutes discrimination and how the Commission might see that aspect of her complaint in this particular case.

The Commission itself has a somewhat elastic definition, judging by a previous opinion of theirs involving Portugal. They deemed the system of exemptions and discounts available when tolls were first introduced on the ex SCUT roads for those residents who acquired a transponder and satisfied a couple of other conditions to be discriminatory on the grounds of nationality, despite the fact that as long as you satisfied the conditions, it didn't matter what nationality you were.

mikemike Mar 12th 2019 10:36 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Just goes to show that not all forms of discrimination are unlawful. just those discrimination's that are mandated against under law.

GeniB Mar 12th 2019 8:19 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12652000)
It's obvious that Ana Gomes is well aware that the scheme is open to Portuguese nationals as she makes a point of mentioning the numbers who have acquired the status in her letter. However, discrimination isn't the only grounds for her complaint - although as a law graduate with a further course specifically on Community Law and years of very active service as an MEP under her belt, we can probably assume she knows both what constitutes discrimination and how the Commission might see that aspect of her complaint in this particular case.

The Commission itself has a somewhat elastic definition, judging by a previous opinion of theirs involving Portugal. They deemed the system of exemptions and discounts available when tolls were first introduced on the ex SCUT roads for those residents who acquired a transponder and satisfied a couple of other conditions to be discriminatory on the grounds of nationality, despite the fact that as long as you satisfied the conditions, it didn't matter what nationality you were.

It's interesting that she ,as a Portuguese MP -MEP? is making this complaint. The instigation of both the NHR and the Golden Visa was the primary engine that got Portugal out of a financial mess that most of the world thought they would be stuck in for ever. I wonder therefore if she has been unduly influenced by the Dutch,who are the main complainants ? Hypocrites to their toes. They have had the 35 % tax rule for foreigners for well over 30+years Plus any Dutch ex-pats who return to NL after 5 yrs . Plus they are a notorious tax haven for everyone from the Stones to Amazon

Red Eric Mar 13th 2019 8:06 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12652494)
It's interesting that she ,as a Portuguese MP -MEP? is making this complaint.

Even more so, perhaps, when you consider that she represents the Socialist Party and that it was the Socialists who introduced the scheme in 2009, the Socialists who are in government at the moment and the President of the Eurogroup to whom Gomes has also previously written is a Portuguese Socialist.


Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12652494)
I wonder therefore if she has been unduly influenced by the Dutch,who are the main complainants ?

I don't think we need to look for outside influences just because she's being critical of a scheme that exists in the country she hails from - she can be quite forthright on any matter about which she feels strongly.

As it happens, she is a vice chair of the European Parliament Special Committee on Financial Crimes, Tax Evasion and Tax Avoidance but I'm sure that appointment comes about as a result of her previous work rather than its being the prompt for her intervention in this case.




liveaboard Mar 13th 2019 9:49 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Asking for an investigation doesn't necessarily mean she opposes the scheme; perhaps she's confident in its legality, but wants that to be nailed down.
But in politics, this sort of thing is political. By asking for an investigation, she gets political points, regardless of the eventual findings.

Red Eric Mar 13th 2019 1:40 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
I'm not sure what political points you think she might be trying to score but she's not standing for re-election to the European Parliament in the upcoming elections on a point of principle. She believes in limitation of mandates and is standing down as she's already served 3 terms.

dingg Mar 13th 2019 1:49 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12652904)
I'm not sure what political points you think she might be trying to score but she's not standing for re-election to the European Parliament in the upcoming elections on a point of principle. She believes in limitation of mandates and is standing down as she's already served 3 terms.

that's her in my good books then as not many remove their snout from the trough once they're in it...

qianh Mar 19th 2019 8:19 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Hmmm, the document says most people on NHR scheme register no high value added activity. But I am actually going to practise high value added activity and found it’s really difficult to get help on tax issues ! 😕 is it because it’s rare?

waterhobo Mar 29th 2019 6:24 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Can you define "high value added activity" because I spend all my money here and not in France, Germany or any other EU country.

AliceCaroline Mar 30th 2019 7:15 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by waterhobo (Post 12663025)
Can you define "high value added activity" because I spend all my money here and not in France, Germany or any other EU country.

This is a list of the high value added activity. If you aren't on the scheme for this I guess it means that you are a pensioner.

Table of activities considered of high added value according to the provisions
of Art. 72, n.º 6 and Art 81, nº 5 of the Personal Income Tax Code (CIRS):
1 - Architects, engineers and similar:
101 - Architects
102 - Engineers
103 - Geologists
2 - Visual artists, actors and musicians:
201 - Theater, ballet, cinema, radio and television artists
202 - Singers
203 - Sculptors
204 - Musicians
205 - Painters
3 - Auditors:
301 - Auditors
302 – Tax Consultants
4 - Doctors and dentists:
401 - Dentists
402 - Medical Analysts
403 - Clinical Surgeons
404 - Ship’s doctor
405 - General Practitioners
406 - Dentists
407 - Clinical dentists
408 - Medical physiatrists
409 - Gastroenterologists
410 - Ophthalmologists
411 – Orthopedic Surgeon
412 - ENT(Ear Nose and Throat) specialists
413 -Pediatricians
414 - Radiologists
415 - Doctors from other specialties
5 - Teachers:
501 - Professors
6 - Psychologists:
601 - Psychologists
7 - Liberal Professionals, technicians and alike:
701 - Archaeologists
702 - Biologists and life sciences experts
703 - Computer Programmers
704 - Software consultant and activities related to information technology and computing
705 – Computer programming activities
706 - Computer consultancy activities
707 - Management and operation of computer equipment
708 – Data services
709 - Data processing, hosting and related activities; Web portals
710 - Data processing, hosting and related activities
711 - Other data service activities
712 – News agencies
713 - Other information service activities
714 - Scientific research and development
715 - Research and experimental development on natural sciences and engineering
716 - Research and development in biotechnology
717 - Designers
8 - Investors, Managers and Directors:
801 - Investors, Directors and managers of companies that promote productive
investment, as long as they are connected to projects and concession contracts that are
eligible for tax benefits per the Investment Tax Code (Código Fiscal)
802 - Upper Management

waterhobo Mar 30th 2019 9:53 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Thanks for that. Interesting, so high value is about contribution to society and not just money.

AliceCaroline Mar 31st 2019 9:06 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by waterhobo (Post 12663521)
Thanks for that. Interesting, so high value is about contribution to society and not just money.

Yep.
You don't need to have a lot of money for NHR either, it's not dependant on your income (that's the Golden Visa). Even on a small pension you can be accepted & benefit from the NHR scheme.

Mac and Mabel Mar 31st 2019 10:29 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by AliceCaroline (Post 12663637)
Yep.
You don't need to have a lot of money for NHR either, it's not dependant on your income (that's the Golden Visa). Even on a small pension you can be accepted & benefit from the NHR scheme.

You can also still benefit being of pre-pension age and without employed or self-employed earnings, just passive income e.g. rental income etc.

waterhobo Mar 31st 2019 4:42 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Ok sounds interesting but where is the benefit in this case. Is the rental income not taxed then for 10 years like your pension.

Mac and Mabel Mar 31st 2019 7:05 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by waterhobo (Post 12663801)
Ok sounds interesting but where is the benefit in this case. Is the rental income not taxed then for 10 years like your pension.

Yes, a variety of so-called passive incomes can be, so long as they meet criteria, exempt from tax in Portugal for the 10-year NHR period. You can find more information on the scheme on the AT/Finanças website.

qianh Apr 1st 2019 12:03 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
I wonder if any one here actually declared high value activity when applying for NHR. I applied NHR and approved. But there was no such option, but I intend to work in such activity.

Mac and Mabel Apr 1st 2019 9:43 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by qianh (Post 12663967)
I wonder if any one here actually declared high value activity when applying for NHR. I applied NHR and approved. But there was no such option, but I intend to work in such activity.

From memory, when we applied online, somewhere in the process, perhaps at the end, the application advised that if you are carrying out one of the high value added activities you must send to the given address evidence, and it gave a suggestion of suitable types of evidence, in order that that activity could be approved and the correct code added to your NHR status. Until such time, everybody is given a default code, I believe 888, indicating no high value added activity on record. Have a look on the AT portal again. I believe that if you don’t do that part, NHR rules won’t be applied to your activity income.

qianh Apr 1st 2019 10:18 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by Mac and Mabel (Post 12664102)


From memory, when we applied online, somewhere in the process, perhaps at the end, the application advised that if you are carrying out one of the high value added activities you must send to the given address evidence, and it gave a suggestion of suitable types of evidence, in order that that activity could be approved and the correct code added to your NHR status. Until such time, everybody is given a default code, I believe 888, indicating no high value added activity on record. Have a look on the AT portal again. I believe that if you don’t do that part, NHR rules won’t be applied to your activity income.

Thank you so much, actually it’s not me personally but my portuguese friend did the application for me, she might have missed that. But looks like it’s something I can request separately.

Red Eric Apr 23rd 2019 12:48 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Ahem ….. sorry to interrupt the tutorial on applying for and benefiting from the scheme but just to return to the original topic for a moment, here is the response to Ana Gomes' letter from Pierre Moscovici, the European Commissioner for Economic and Financial Affairs, Taxation and Customs.

Reply from Commissioner Moscovici to the letter concerning the tax exemption to non-habitual residents

waterhobo Apr 23rd 2019 1:50 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
sounds like there's no threat to NHR from the EU then.

Red Eric Apr 24th 2019 5:37 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by waterhobo (Post 12674724)
sounds like there's no threat to NHR from the EU then.

Certainly not of the "stop that immediately" variety at this stage, anyway.

Which is hardly a big surprise, given the longevity of the scheme and the fact that the Commission could hardly have failed to be fully aware of it for all of that time.

The last paragraph does seem to indicate the possibility of future frowning, though. It also seems in keeping with public statements made by the PM and the Finance Minister about Portugal's willingness to discuss concerns with other member states and agree some amendments as part of a look at the overall situation in the EU, as opposed to PT making unilateral concessions.

andydoc1 May 7th 2019 12:04 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12652000)
It's obvious that Ana Gomes is well aware that the scheme is open to Portuguese nationals as she makes a point of mentioning the numbers who have acquired the status in her letter. However, discrimination isn't the only grounds for her complaint - although as a law graduate with a further course specifically on Community Law and years of very active service as an MEP under her belt, we can probably assume she knows both what constitutes discrimination and how the Commission might see that aspect of her complaint in this particular case.

The Commission itself has a somewhat elastic definition, judging by a previous opinion of theirs involving Portugal. They deemed the system of exemptions and discounts available when tolls were first introduced on the ex SCUT roads for those residents who acquired a transponder and satisfied a couple of other conditions to be discriminatory on the grounds of nationality, despite the fact that as long as you satisfied the conditions, it didn't matter what nationality you were.

I'm fairly sure that the right not to be discriminated against under the ECHR is a qualified right ie it is lawful to discriminate if it is a proportionate way of achieving a legitimate aim...

andydoc1 May 7th 2019 12:07 pm

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Of course if I am correct in that view^^ it gives the commission fairly wide discretion to determine 'proportionate' and 'legitimate'

GeniB May 10th 2019 6:56 am

Re: Portuguese MEP asks Commission to investigate NHR
 
Not sure I understand part of the statement that said that 'Those that are already permanently resident in Portugal have NOT EXERCISED THEIR EU FREEDOMS ? What does that mean ?


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