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Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Old Nov 23rd 2022, 5:17 pm
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Default Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

I finally got my permanent residency card. I live not far from Spain and I was thinking of taking a short trip now that I don't have to worry whether my documents will cause me problems. But there's nothing at the border apart from a sign that says "Spain". I'm not sure what I need to do. As I understand it, my residency only applies to Portugal and doesn't give me the right to just wander into the EU without declaring myself. Does anyone know the procedure?
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Old Nov 23rd 2022, 5:24 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

You stop at the border and present yourself to the Guarda Civil with your passport, PT resident's card and the completed entry declaration form (link to form below).
If no Guarda Civil are at the border post you have 3 days to present yourself and documents at a police station.
Declaration of entry
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Old Nov 23rd 2022, 5:25 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Ah simple! Great thanks very much
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Old Nov 23rd 2022, 11:42 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Does anyone based in Algarve complete this form when travelling to say Ayamonte? In common with the thousands who cross the Guadiana to Spain every day by road or boat, we have never filled it in or reported to anyone. When papers inspected in Spanish waters, all they've ever asked for is passport, insurance and boat registration doc.
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Old Nov 24th 2022, 12:31 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Originally Posted by GrahamF View Post
Does anyone based in Algarve complete this form when travelling to say Ayamonte? In common with the thousands who cross the Guadiana to Spain every day by road or boat, we have never filled it in or reported to anyone. When papers inspected in Spanish waters, all they've ever asked for is passport, insurance and boat registration doc.
You must be joking! I regularly cross the bridge and sometimes more than once per day. I have never heard of anyone who does any of that stuff and there is no Guardia Civil office near to the bridge, it is an open Schengen border.

British people don't seem to get the concept open borders or EU freedom of movement.
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Old Nov 24th 2022, 12:43 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

I don't bother either. I'd be on first name terms if I did.
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Old Nov 24th 2022, 1:08 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Originally Posted by Shanorme View Post
I don't bother either. I'd be on first name terms if I did.
Nobody bothers and who even knew it existed? This is legacy stuff for third country nationals but Schengen trumps everything and entry points are at the first Schengen port of entry, not internally.

It you travel to Spain three times in one day, what are you supposed to do, fill out three forms and chase around looking for a police station? What utter nonsense.

The EU is geared up for its own citizens, freedom of movement and open borders and British people who have protected rights under the wretched Brexit withdrawal agreement, but unfortunately no longer EU nationals, seem to fall between the cracks. It's a mess.

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Old Nov 24th 2022, 1:24 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

I suppose if you have 3 days to announce your visit to the Guardia, and you are spending less than 3 days, then there's no point in doing it because even if you get caught you can just say you didn't get round to it. I'm sure the practical reality and the official rules are um pouco differente.
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Old Nov 24th 2022, 1:40 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

When was that form introduced? Was it part of the Covid travel restrictions? If so, no longer required. If not part of Covid restrictions, I doubt it applies to citizens or residents travelling within Europe anyway.
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Old Nov 24th 2022, 2:11 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

The Schengen Borders Code also covers internal borders (Articles 22 to 24).

Article 23(d) is the one what allows member states to have national law requiring third country citizens to register their entry into their national territory via an internal border by adopting Article 22 of the Schengen Convention (the original open borders agreement which only applied to a few member states of the EU when it was introduced in 1985).

Obviously it didn't apply to Brits pre Brexit, and out of everything that has been written about what we would lose with Brexit, Article 23(d) seems to have fallen between the cracks and not been widely disseminated.

Article 22 of the Schengen Convention states;1. Aliens who have legally entered the territory of one of the Contracting Parties shall be obliged to report, in accordance with the conditions laid down by each Contracting Party, to the competent authorities of the Contracting Party whose territory they enter. Such aliens may report either on entry or within three working days of entry, at the discretion of the Contracting Party whose territory they enter.

2. Aliens resident in the territory of one of the Contracting Parties who enter the territory of another Contracting Party shall be required to report to the authorities, as laid down in paragraph 1.

3. Each Contracting Party shall lay down its exemptions from paragraphs 1 and 2 and shall communicate them to the Executive Committee.

During my research I've only found one Schengen member country that does not have a requirement in their national law for third country citizens to report their entry (Lithuania).
It may be unpalatable but it is what it is, people can chose whether or not to comply with it, but if someone asks the question the only appropriate answer to their question has to be what their legal obligations are.

Last edited by Bomber Harris; Nov 24th 2022 at 2:50 pm.
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Old Nov 24th 2022, 2:49 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Originally Posted by GrahamF View Post
When was that form introduced? Was it part of the Covid travel restrictions? If so, no longer required. If not part of Covid restrictions, I doubt it applies to citizens or residents travelling within Europe anyway.
That version of the form, 2011. It's nothing to do with Covid travel restrictions, it's part of the Schengen Borders Code. It doesn't apply to EU citizens, it does apply to third country citizens resident in another country (see Article 22.2 of the Schengen Convention in my post above).
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Old Nov 24th 2022, 3:02 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Originally Posted by Bomber Harris View Post
That version of the form, 2011. It's nothing to do with Covid travel restrictions, it's part of the Schengen Borders Code. It doesn't apply to EU citizens, it does apply to third country citizens resident in another country (see Article 22.2 of the Schengen Convention in my post above).
It's about as enforceable as the supposed three month registration rule for EU nationals visiting other EU states that nobody ever complies with.

Good luck with turning up at a police station with that form, they would wonder what the hell you are doing.



Last edited by Lou71; Nov 24th 2022 at 3:40 pm.
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Old Nov 24th 2022, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Originally Posted by Ferretofthemata View Post
I suppose if you have 3 days to announce your visit to the Guardia, and you are spending less than 3 days, then there's no point in doing it because even if you get caught you can just say you didn't get round to it. I'm sure the practical reality and the official rules are um pouco differente.
Get caught? What do you mean by that?

The Spanish police don't wander around the streets saying "papers please". If you did need to produce ID for any reason, you would show your passport and residency card, end of. You don't have to creep around like a criminal.

This is getting beyond ridiculous now.
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Old Nov 24th 2022, 3:49 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Originally Posted by Lou71 View Post
Get caught? What do you mean by that?

The Spanish police don't wander around the streets saying "papers please". If you did need to produce ID for any reason, you would show your passport and residency card, end of. You don't have to creep around like a criminal.

This is getting beyond ridiculous now.
We've travelled by car into Spain countless times since Brexit (sometimes multiple visits within a week) and have also sailed their waters as well. A couple of times, we've been stopped in the car for routine checks and when sailing have had documents inspected by customs and immigration. At no time have we been asked about declaring entry and I certainly won't be bothering to report. Others must make their own choice.
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Old Nov 24th 2022, 8:05 pm
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Default Re: Portugal to Spain by car with new biometric card

Originally Posted by Lou71 View Post
Get caught? What do you mean by that?

The Spanish police don't wander around the streets saying "papers please". If you did need to produce ID for any reason, you would show your passport and residency card, end of. You don't have to creep around like a criminal.

This is getting beyond ridiculous now.
Absolutely.
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