Midgo

Hi
My best mate from home is thinking of buying a cheap, small plot of land away from the coast (perhaps Alentejo? closish to us in Caprica would be beneficial but not necessary) just to come down from UK for less than 90 days in spring or autumn and park his camper van (white van conversion)
He doesnt plan to build anything, or get residency or anything, just break up the winter when he doesnt have so much work (builder)
Could someone please give a summary of the steps / legal requirements etc for this in these PB (Post Brexit) times we live in?
Then I can investigate deeper
Cheers
Leigh

riv

I would have thought the worst period for builders in uk would be winter, rather than spring or autumn ?

But winter would also be the least attractive time of year to be living in a camper van on a site with no running water, fossa etc..

But if he can spare time away from work in spring or autumn, I would have thought the way to go would be to look out for a plot which is marketed as having an existing house ( or even 'ruina' ) needing work but with residential rights once restored [ ALL to be checked minutely at the Ca^mara and Registo Predial by the chosen Solicitador /a ] . Before signing, request the Solicitador /a to obtain in writing from the Ca^mara confirmation that there would be no objection to the new owner living on site in temporary accomm while he does the restoration work. [ Without putting a time limit on how long such work will take.]

Provided the plot is not so near neighbours as to annoy them by having someone camping on site for years on end on and off [ give them the olives or fruits from the trees ] I would have thought an arrangement such as the above could work well.

I would have thought anywhere near Caparica would be pricey though...........Wouldn't remote Tra's os Montes be more romantic ? [ and cheaper ] ?

riv

Buying a property in Gois

Have you followed the above thread ? It strikes me that somewhere like the house the subject of the thread ( which the original Poster has decided against buying ) might well suit, or maybe, for another five to ten grand somewhere similar or worse condition but with an acre or two of land .

And near a Praia Fluvial must add to the attractions. If the Go'is and surrounding areas would suit then he should contact the estate agent mentioned, check out the latter's website for other properties, plus just ask him what sort of properties might be coming up.

I think that just buying somewhere as agricultural land without habitation rights would be asking for trouble. But why even do that when places such as the one in the thread are still ( but for how much longer ??) available ?

Midgo

Thanks,
By nearish to Caparica I meant couple of hours, and its not really important
I really wanted to know what is and what isnt allowed.
Can you not just camp in a van on a field without habitation certificate?
What are the (gist of the) regs on that sort of thing?
Does it vary from camara to camara (in theory)?

riv

There is a reason why some places do and some places don't possess a Habitation Licence.

Yes the rules are ( or at very least from one day to the next MIGHT be ) enforced.

The Solicitador /a can hardly write to the Ca^mara prior to purchase and ask ...........' BTW, will it be ok if my client purchases this place which has no Habitation Licence and then proceeds to camp on it for nigh on six months of the year ? ' can s/he ?

My question would be - Why even take the risk ? When you can buy an old house / ruin WITH rights of residence ?

Also............You will have seen all the bad news about fires and the devastation they cause .

Can you even begin to IMAGINE what the civil damages / criminal penalties would be for someone who illegally set up camp on a plot of land with NO habitation licence.............and then from that plot of land ( even in high summer when owner was not even there ) a fire commenced or was alleged to have commenced ? WHY even think about taking such a risk ?

When places are available ( for now, not for much longer I suspect ) like the place in the Go'is thread which would be fantastic bolt holes to camp ( or even Glamp ) in whilst doing up over time ?

There is an article in this week's VISA~O magazine ( still on sale ) about how the Portuguese are re discovering, big time, the pleasures to be had in inland Portugal, central and north. THAT's the way the wind is blowing............Property in Lisbon, Porto and elsewhere having become unaffordable to people on even middle class incomes, they are going to start looking around at the Go'is type places and realizing that at least it's some kind of base for peace and quiet when you can get away from the grind. I don't think they will remain bargains for much longer.

Midgo

Thanks
I guess you are underestimating my ignorance in these matters, but I get the impression that no habitation license means not even able to stay there for limited times in a mobile vehicle?
He's not planning to ignore the rules, just find out what they are.

If that is the case then buying a ruin sounds like a sensible option

Its inevitable that buying in the sticks wouldnt be cheap forever, but surely given the differences in population density it cant get as bad as the UK?
And given the amount of money they have us foreigners are more of a 'threat' to cheap properties than are the Portuguese?
These are questions, I havent got a clue on these matters, or much else!

liveaboard

Technically it is not legal to live in an object not licensed to live in.
In reality, I know many people who live on private land in campers, for years.
None have had any trouble so far.

Some even have mains power and water.

toots sweet

Isn't it also all about whether the land is designated urban or rustic? In that you can live( and build) on urban ,but rustic is only for agriculture and grazing.

liveaboard

All agriculture here.
One guy has 4 hectares of mountainous forest, there are dozens of caravans, campers, tents, yurts, and huts up there. I shudder to think what will happen if it catches fire. `

Another guy bought 2 hectares of flat farmland near the sea, planted trees and lives in a small motorhome. He's there most of the year.

A couple I know lives in two old motorhomes on a corner of another foreign owned plot that has several legal houses on another area of it. They look after the place when the owner is away, so everyone's happy.

Another couple bought a plot with a ruin, but hasn't been able to marshal the resources to get it repaired and made into a legal residence. They live in a big caravan there for years.

It's not only foreigners, I know a couple of PT nationals who live on private agriculture land in similar situations.

The big noise about cracking down on illegal wild campers refers to traffic law enforced; but private property is not covered by traffic law.

Moses2013

In theory yes but even urban does not always allow you to park and live in a camper van. Some parts of Spain have very similar regulations to some parts of Portugal and this is a good summary https://www.pureportugal.co.uk/blogs...owdown-part-2/

In the Portuguese system there’s no definition for a non permanent dwelling.
What we have is a definition for camping and a definition for dwellings. Camping is a temporary installation of a portable shelter to be placed outdoors, with the purpose of serving as temporary accommodation. All the other types of accommodations (non portable or permanent) are considered dwellings and they have to fulfil the laws. The difficulty here is to clarify what we can consider to be a non portable shelter or what we consider temporary installation.
Some councils have rules that clarify this question but most of them do not specify this. But basically for the Portuguese common sense, the authorities will consider a portable accommodation as something that you can build and take off in some hours or one day. Also they will consider it a temporary installation if you don’t live there. If you built a kitchen or a bath, this are signs that you live there and it’s not a temporary accommodation, and all types of permanent accommodations are mandatory to be licensed and they have to follow the rules.

This is often the problem and as soon as you live there it is no longer considered temporary.

SanDiegogirl

How do they manage for water and more especially handle sewage?

borisface

Exactly.

Red Eric

I definitely don't think they should be handling sewage.

Especially not if they're just about to have their sandwiches.

DaveLovesDee

Most countries have RV dump stations for visiting RVs, also with facilities to refill water tanks.

liveaboard

If you're on your own land, sewage is not very difficult.
Most have old style outhouses, like humans used for most of our existence. There are various types.
Of course, nothing stops one from installing a septic tank and drain field, if you have enough water for flushing.

Water supply can be connected for non-habitations Build a little shed and get power and water connected.
That isn't always possible, but some people I know did it.