Ukkram

We have now been here for three and a half months. I got my residencia for 5 years from the city municipal counsel office within 30 minutes and only had to show my passport.
My wife on the other hand is a problem.
She is South African and needs to get residencia from SEF. Now to get this, she needs tonnes of documentation although we have been married like forever.
One cannot ask SEF what docs are needed in our case as we can only get an appointment online or via a phone call that involves "Press 1 for this and 2 for that and 6 for this" in Portuguese.
That is the procedure but we have a problem.
South African postal service has been on strike for 3 months and her Police Clearance is still stuck there. Does she need this?
Her visa has expired now with this waiting for the Police Clearance. Even if she miraculously gets it now, it will not be appostiled.
Are we in the shite?

mfesharne

I told you it'd be a whole lot more hassle than first appears!

I'd suggest you have the police report sent by courier because the people here will reject it if they consider it expired and if that happens, you'll have to start all over again and it's not impossible (in fact, I'd say it's probable) they'll expect your wife to return to SA for a considerable period before returning on a new visa and making a brand new application which she will need a new police clearance for.

That friend of mine I told you about who had a non Euro wife was forced to send her back to Africa not once, but twice and each time, she had to stay in Africa for 6 months!

If you can't get hold of the SEF by phone, I'd suggest you go there personally and wait until they'll attend to you.

Ukkram

No Steve. They cannot by EU law separate spouses if one has an EU citizenship.This has been tested in the highest court in Europe and all countries that are members had to alter their regulations accordingly. Your friend was unfortunate due to the ignorance of this law.
I can post that case here if you want.

mfesharne

Mate: I don't disagree with you but theory and practice are sometimes not the same thing.

She had to go back to Botswana not one but twice and I've got another mate in the UK who is married to a Liberian lady and the UK immigration service is trying to get her to return there even though the country has a massive ebola problem....... at the moment, he's arguing for her to stay and it looks like they're winning but there's many a slip twixt cup and lip as they say.

My friend incidentally wasn't ignorant of the law and he even used a helluva good lawyer to argue his case and despite that, she still had to leave. (twice!)

I wish you all the luck in the world but as I said previously, it often ain't as easy as it first appears.

Another example of how theory and practice sometimes differs here is the European Commission site tells us that all Govt forms in all EU countries must be available in all official EU languages (of which, English is one) but I went to sit an exam a few weeks ago and was not only refused a (previously requested) English exam paper but was also refused permission to use the services of an official PSP translator who was there and waiting and ready to translate for me...... I'm now taking direct legal action against them AND have involved my MP who is also giving them kak about it but so far, they haven't changed their attitude one iota.

Ukkram

I agree if your spouse is native African and it might be a marriage of convenience. My wife is white and from Scottish grandparents and as I stated, we have been married forever.
I state here the directive from the EU council AFTER the court case.

Non EU family members of EU citizens have a fundamental right to travel together with their EU family members to any of the EU states, even if they do not have the required visa.

This right has been clarified and upheld in 2002 by the highest EU court, the ECJ, in the case C-459/99 (MRAX. vs Kingdom of Belgium) and has now been incorporated explicitly into Directive 2004/38/EC.

mfesharne

Like I said. I don't disagree with you but like I also said to you before you left SA, sometimes it ain't as easy as it should be and my guess is that if you don't get your application (complete with SA police clearance) in fairly soon, you will be as you asked in the original post, "in the shite"

I hope that doesn't happen and sincerely wish you both the very best of luck with it but from my experience, they don't make it easy and they don't always follow the rules as they should.

But all that said, I guess you could always go to the SEF office and quote that ruling to them and see what they say.

One thing you do need to bear in mind is that if you do end up "in the shite" they'll become even less co-operative.

mfesharne

I might have some good news for you....... I don't remember where I saw it but have an idea that I read somewhere it's possible to get a new police clearance certificate from the SA high commission so you might like to give them a call and see if you can get one from them.

mfesharne

I've also just noticed your para in bold and that is correct and (I assume) your wife was allowed to do just that but the difference is travelling to and staying/being granted a residencia....... which the Portuguese often don't seem to view as the same thing.

Ukkram

I have sent them an email so hoping for a visa extension until she gets her stuff sorted.
She can get a copy from the Police Services and get it couriered here at a cost of €60 so I was hoping that a spouse of an EU national would not need one as they have privileges above third country individuals.

mfesharne

You might consider getting a price from RAM Couriers. - I've shipped a variety of things with them and they've always been very efficient and reasonably priced.

Red Eric

According to one of the government websites, all that is required in terms of documentation is the registration certificate of the EU citizen, 2 passport photographs, photocopies of passport pages, and birth / marriage certificates (it seems to say one or the other but I assume they'd want to see both).

The application must be made within 30 days once 3 months have elapsed since the date of entry and costs 15€

Source here (I can't find it in English anywhere, sorry)
Portal do Cidadão - Cartão de Residência para cidadão de Estado terceiro familiar de nacional da UE/EEE/Suíça

It doesn't mention anything about race or ancestry being a consideration, though

Ukkram

Thanks guys. We'll take a gamble and go without the Police Clearance. I printed Red Eric's link to take with.

Red Eric

This is an extract from europa.eu ("Your Europe" - official EU website)

Note the statement in bold saying no other documents may be requested - I assume that applies as much to Portugal as to any other member state.

Source here Registering your non-EU family members in another EU country

And here's a link to the specific information about registering non-EU family members in Portugal on the same website (which is exactly as on the Portuguese website but in English this time )
Portugal

mfesharne

For what it's worth, my buddy here in Portugal with the Motswanan wife and also my buddy in the UK with the Liberian wife both had to have an apostille attached to their marriage certificate stating the marriage was legal in the country the marriage took place and that could only be done in that country.

The Motswanan had to return to Africa with the original marriage cert to have it done and the Liberian is currently arguing it's dangerous to return because of the ebola and they should either waive or delay that requirement and let her stay in the UK.

Ukkram

Well done. That saved me money and time. We'll take printed copies of both websites with us.
Her embassy has a facility for apostilling docs but we have marriage certificate plus marriage contract. In some African countries men buy their wives and get an unofficial document from the village council. Then again, you don't need a marriage certificate at all if you can prove that you have been living together for at least 2 years as common law partners.