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NHR status portugal

NHR status portugal

Old Sep 6th 2018, 3:03 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

Financial websites are littered with words like "may, could, possibly and potentially" be tax free. One website says that there is no tax free holiday while another says to come to PT and enjoy a 10 year tax free holiday. Who to believe? Most make their money from property and need clients.

Look what nonhabitualresidents.com says. I quote below.

//A Non-Habitual Resident (“NHR”) will be exempt from personal income tax on certain types of qualifying income if this income is subject to tax in the country of source under an existing Double Tax Treaty that allows for this//

In the 4 years that we have been here not one member of this forum have given first hand experience except me despite people asking.I repeat here. Capital Gains Tax on investments get no relief with NHR because the DTA states that it may only be taxed by Portugal. This is 100% correct as confirmed by 4 tax returns.

According to the DTA UK - PT, some pensions can only be taxed by Portugal so as per my example above on CGT then there is a possibility that both will be treated the same. Unless someone can confirm that it is not taxed I will be on the fence with this.

Last edited by Ukkram; Sep 6th 2018 at 3:10 pm.
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Old Sep 6th 2018, 4:38 pm
  #62  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

http://info.portaldasfinancas.gov.pt...IRS_RNH_EN.pdf


page 8
3 (b)

I'm happy to follow the financas lead
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Old Sep 6th 2018, 5:25 pm
  #63  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

3 - Income in category H (pensions) - paragraph 6 of Art.º 81.º of the CIRS Portuguese non-regular residents that have obtained category H incomes in foreign countries, have exemption if these incomes are from contributions that have not been deducted under Paragraph 2 of Art. 25. of the CIRS and if the conditions below are met:

a) They are taxed by the source State/nation, according to the convention to eliminate double taxation held by Portugal and the source State; or

b) They cannot be considered to have been obtained on Portuguese territory as per Art. 18, paragraph 1 of the CIRS.//
End copy and paste.

So 3 (a) or (b) must be met to get exemption.
(a) is not met as it is a residence based tax. (b) is met as it is not obtained on PT soil.

To me this means that personal pension is exempt.

I was however perturbed by the wording "if it is taxed in the other state" for exemption to apply here for other incomes.
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 10:02 am
  #64  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

Originally Posted by dingg
ukkram

I am coming to portugal from the uk and fully expect my pension to be paid free of any tax under NHR , yours is the only voice that says this is not allowed.

Maybe your case is different to everyone elses - I don't know your circumstances, but everything I read tells me I will satisfy the rules and will enjoy a pension paid free of tax for 10 years
Hi,

All the above information most useful - thnxs to everyone.
Very interesting point made by ukkram - this is the sort of thing that I have been concerned about.
With the experience gained from operating my own Company I discovered over time that many tax saving schemes in fact cost more in the long run than simply 'paying the piper'.

But as Mac & Mabel suggested - so for me also - it would make the difference in my decision to 'give it go' - in particular in the later stages of life.
Thnxs all.
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 11:38 am
  #65  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

Originally Posted by dingg
ukkram

I am coming to portugal from the uk and fully expect my pension to be paid free of any tax under NHR , yours is the only voice that says this is not allowed.

Maybe your case is different to everyone elses - I don't know your circumstances, but everything I read tells me I will satisfy the rules and will enjoy a pension paid free of tax for 10 years
Or until the country where your pensions is paid from decides to end tax free payment..
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 11:51 am
  #66  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

but that would need a new dta drawn up between portugal and uk

Provably take 20 years to implement , I'm happy to take that risk

(you scare mongerer you)
😀

Anyway that decision would lie with portugal

Last edited by dingg; Sep 7th 2018 at 11:53 am. Reason: Add
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 12:46 pm
  #67  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

The UK doesn't actually appear at all bothered about it. Not enough to make unilateral changes, anyway.

Changes at the Portuguese end have been rumoured, allegedly on account of complaints by other EU member states but Portugal appears reluctant to do anything for nothing in return. There are other countries operating tax advantage schemes of various sorts which Portugal would like discussed along with its own.

In the case of Finland, it was easy for them to exert pressure because their existing DTA with Portugal was due to expire anyway. I believe that whatever compromise was eventually agreed led to a 3 year transition period, so even after the resolution was agreed, there were residual benefits for Finnish NHR pensioner beneficiaries.
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 1:23 pm
  #68  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

There is talk that this may be the last year for NHR applications. Haven't got the link but it should be simple to find.
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 1:23 pm
  #69  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

Those rumours have spurred me into action before year end to get it sorted rather than gamble and get hit with a change in 2019

Just means split year treatment and a lot of calculations to do :-( for 18/19
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 1:32 pm
  #70  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

Originally Posted by dingg
but that would need a new dta drawn up between portugal and uk

Provably take 20 years to implement , I'm happy to take that risk

(you scare mongerer you)
😀

Anyway that decision would lie with portugal

Ever heard of Brexit , take nothing for granted as far as the future status of Brits in Portugal.
The Swedes are already considering ending the passporting of pensions tax free.
Ending tax free passporting of income is not down to Portugal but the country of origin of the income...
IN addition given the recovery of the Portuguese economy and property market there is no longer the need for Portugal to subsidise part time and full time foreign .residents....
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 1:40 pm
  #71  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

Oh Dear

I take it you don't qualify for NHR?
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 1:49 pm
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

Originally Posted by EMR
IN addition given the recovery of the Portuguese economy and property market there is no longer the need for Portugal to subsidise part time and full time foreign .residents....
There doesn't seem to be any unseemly urgency on the part of the current government to make amendments, let alone to end the regime entirely. The most that has been rumoured is the introduction of a preferential rate of tax as opposed to the current zero rate.

This in the face of some very cogent arguments and pertinent questions being asked from within (again and just this week by a spokesperson from the BE, for example) as well as from outside the country.
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 1:50 pm
  #73  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

Originally Posted by dingg
Oh Dear

I take it you don't qualify for NHR?
I may well do but Its not the reason I chose Portugal, I also have come to know just how much better off we expats are than the Portuguese who cannot avoid paying tax ..
There are many , 100s maybe thousands who have abused the NHR process by pretending to live in Portugal when they do not having just bought a basic or rented a property often encouraged by estate agents with the NHR benefit...
It has had its time .
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 5:09 pm
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

Originally Posted by EMR
I may well do but Its not the reason I chose Portugal, I also have come to know just how much better off we expats are than the Portuguese who cannot avoid paying tax ..
There are many , 100s maybe thousands who have abused the NHR process by pretending to live in Portugal when they do not having just bought a basic or rented a property often encouraged by estate agents with the NHR benefit...
It has had its time .
I think you may, once again, be letting your opinions cloud your judgement.
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Old Sep 7th 2018, 5:15 pm
  #75  
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Default Re: NHR status portugal

Originally Posted by EMR
IN addition given the recovery of the Portuguese economy and property market there is no longer the need for Portugal to subsidise part time and full time foreign .residents....
Again, maybe in the Algarve and large cities, EMR....
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