NHR application without accountant
Nov 22nd 2019, 4:57 pm
#76
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,834
Re: NHR application without accountant
I understand your motive for registering residency pre-Brexit but I believe the Portuguese Government was referring to people being resident, not just registering residency, as the requirement. Obviously being resident and not being registered is a risky way to approach the matter. Similarly registering without being resident could also be problematic.
As I said you do not need to own a property or have a 12 month lease to be (tax-)resident as you could be living with friends or family. Similarly you do not need either of them to apply for NHR.
However if you are trying to game the system without actually living in Portugal you'll almost certainly need one or other to be in with a chance.
As I said you do not need to own a property or have a 12 month lease to be (tax-)resident as you could be living with friends or family. Similarly you do not need either of them to apply for NHR.
However if you are trying to game the system without actually living in Portugal you'll almost certainly need one or other to be in with a chance.
Nov 22nd 2019, 5:08 pm
#77
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2019
Location: Porches, Algarve
Posts: 75
Re: NHR application without accountant
I understand your motive for registering residency pre-Brexit but I believe the Portuguese Government was referring to people being resident, not just registering residency, as the requirement. Obviously being resident and not being registered is a risky way to approach the matter. Similarly registering without being resident could also be problematic.
As I said you do not need to own a property or have a 12 month lease to be (tax-)resident as you could be living with friends or family. Similarly you do not need either of them to apply for NHR.
However if you are trying to game the system without actually living in Portugal you'll almost certainly need one or other to be in with a chance.
As I said you do not need to own a property or have a 12 month lease to be (tax-)resident as you could be living with friends or family. Similarly you do not need either of them to apply for NHR.
However if you are trying to game the system without actually living in Portugal you'll almost certainly need one or other to be in with a chance.
Nov 23rd 2019, 8:59 am
#79
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2016
Location: Alvaiázere, central Portugal
Posts: 591
Re: NHR application without accountant
What Richard said is correct, and in general I would be cautious of relying on what solicitors and accountants say; unlike the UK, it seems that there is little to no protection or redress when advice is faulty. And let me interpret and perhaps explain his valid comment on gaming the system. I know absolutely that this does not apply to you, but there is a sizeable minority of expats who live outside the tax system, making use of the thriving black economy, paying no tax anywhere, driving UK cars illegally here (cars with a UK SORN, for example) and who have no residency.
Many of them have done so successfully for years, and have normalised behaviour which is ethically questionable and, being completely illegal, is obviously very dangerous and could lead to bad personal consequences. Being squeaky clean is the only way forward!
I think you are, though, pushing your timescale envelop to breaking point, here. Let us say completion is on March 31. Do you think you can get it all sorted with a Residencia (see below) and NHR the same day? I think not, and I know that the consequences of missing the deadline would be very costly for you. I feel that preemptive action would be wise.
You say you have residency at your friends place. Let me clarify this. Do you merely mean you have told the authorities that you are staying there? Residency means having had a attestado done at the local Junta, signed be two residents of the same Freguesia, and taken to the Camara with your lease or purchase deeds, passport etc to apply for and receive (on the spot) the formal Residencia, which is an A4 document with the European star symbol. This is what you need, and if you don’t have it your current plans are very risky.
There is clearly a catch 22 issue here, because you are a resident of Portugal from the date of entering the country with the intention of staying permanently. So you are already resident, but cannot apply for formal residency, or so it seems. Since you are resident, your first potential NHR year is 2019, and it must be applied for before (and I suggest well before) March 31 2020, as you know.
I suggest two ways forward, the first of which (how can I put it) was actually done “by a friend” in a very similar position.
Many of them have done so successfully for years, and have normalised behaviour which is ethically questionable and, being completely illegal, is obviously very dangerous and could lead to bad personal consequences. Being squeaky clean is the only way forward!
I think you are, though, pushing your timescale envelop to breaking point, here. Let us say completion is on March 31. Do you think you can get it all sorted with a Residencia (see below) and NHR the same day? I think not, and I know that the consequences of missing the deadline would be very costly for you. I feel that preemptive action would be wise.
You say you have residency at your friends place. Let me clarify this. Do you merely mean you have told the authorities that you are staying there? Residency means having had a attestado done at the local Junta, signed be two residents of the same Freguesia, and taken to the Camara with your lease or purchase deeds, passport etc to apply for and receive (on the spot) the formal Residencia, which is an A4 document with the European star symbol. This is what you need, and if you don’t have it your current plans are very risky.
There is clearly a catch 22 issue here, because you are a resident of Portugal from the date of entering the country with the intention of staying permanently. So you are already resident, but cannot apply for formal residency, or so it seems. Since you are resident, your first potential NHR year is 2019, and it must be applied for before (and I suggest well before) March 31 2020, as you know.
I suggest two ways forward, the first of which (how can I put it) was actually done “by a friend” in a very similar position.
- find the cheapest property you can to rent, and take a 6 month lease, or a 12 month lease cancellable at 6 months. No need to live in it, connect up services or anything, and use that to obtain Residency. Of course, you can live in it if you want. This “friend” had intended to move in and, in order to obtain that 6 month cancellation window, they paid the 6 months rent up front, and they changed their mind when they realised how awful the place was.
- Better - if the property you are purchasing is vacant, arrange a lease with the vendor and move in prior to completion.
Nov 23rd 2019, 9:36 am
#80
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2019
Location: Porches, Algarve
Posts: 75
Re: NHR application without accountant
What Richard said is correct, and in general I would be cautious of relying on what solicitors and accountants say; unlike the UK, it seems that there is little to no protection or redress when advice is faulty. And let me interpret and perhaps explain his valid comment on gaming the system. I know absolutely that this does not apply to you, but there is a sizeable minority of expats who live outside the tax system, making use of the thriving black economy, paying no tax anywhere, driving UK cars illegally here (cars with a UK SORN, for example) and who have no residency.
Many of them have done so successfully for years, and have normalised behaviour which is ethically questionable and, being completely illegal, is obviously very dangerous and could lead to bad personal consequences. Being squeaky clean is the only way forward!
I think you are, though, pushing your timescale envelop to breaking point, here. Let us say completion is on March 31. Do you think you can get it all sorted with a Residencia (see below) and NHR the same day? I think not, and I know that the consequences of missing the deadline would be very costly for you. I feel that preemptive action would be wise.
You say you have residency at your friends place. Let me clarify this. Do you merely mean you have told the authorities that you are staying there? Residency means having had a attestado done at the local Junta, signed be two residents of the same Freguesia, and taken to the Camara with your lease or purchase deeds, passport etc to apply for and receive (on the spot) the formal Residencia, which is an A4 document with the European star symbol. This is what you need, and if you don’t have it your current plans are very risky.
There is clearly a catch 22 issue here, because you are a resident of Portugal from the date of entering the country with the intention of staying permanently. So you are already resident, but cannot apply for formal residency, or so it seems. Since you are resident, your first potential NHR year is 2019, and it must be applied for before (and I suggest well before) March 31 2020, as you know.
I suggest two ways forward, the first of which (how can I put it) was actually done “by a friend” in a very similar position.
Many of them have done so successfully for years, and have normalised behaviour which is ethically questionable and, being completely illegal, is obviously very dangerous and could lead to bad personal consequences. Being squeaky clean is the only way forward!
I think you are, though, pushing your timescale envelop to breaking point, here. Let us say completion is on March 31. Do you think you can get it all sorted with a Residencia (see below) and NHR the same day? I think not, and I know that the consequences of missing the deadline would be very costly for you. I feel that preemptive action would be wise.
You say you have residency at your friends place. Let me clarify this. Do you merely mean you have told the authorities that you are staying there? Residency means having had a attestado done at the local Junta, signed be two residents of the same Freguesia, and taken to the Camara with your lease or purchase deeds, passport etc to apply for and receive (on the spot) the formal Residencia, which is an A4 document with the European star symbol. This is what you need, and if you don’t have it your current plans are very risky.
There is clearly a catch 22 issue here, because you are a resident of Portugal from the date of entering the country with the intention of staying permanently. So you are already resident, but cannot apply for formal residency, or so it seems. Since you are resident, your first potential NHR year is 2019, and it must be applied for before (and I suggest well before) March 31 2020, as you know.
I suggest two ways forward, the first of which (how can I put it) was actually done “by a friend” in a very similar position.
- find the cheapest property you can to rent, and take a 6 month lease, or a 12 month lease cancellable at 6 months. No need to live in it, connect up services or anything, and use that to obtain Residency. Of course, you can live in it if you want. This “friend” had intended to move in and, in order to obtain that 6 month cancellation window, they paid the 6 months rent up front, and they changed their mind when they realised how awful the place was.
- Better - if the property you are purchasing is vacant, arrange a lease with the vendor and move in prior to completion.
Nov 23rd 2019, 12:28 pm
#81
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,834
Re: NHR application without accountant
Thank you For the full review of my options, just for clarification I do have the formal A4 Residencia Document and as such I believe I should apply for NHR before December 31st 2019 as only then can I answer the question about not having been resident in Portugal in the past 5 years truthfully.
Nov 23rd 2019, 7:01 pm
#82
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2019
Location: Porches, Algarve
Posts: 75
Re: NHR application without accountant
Even if you apply during the first 3 months of 2020 you can and should be applying with reference to the 2019 calendar/fiscal year. Therefore your statement will, in effect, be that you weren't resident in the 5 years ending with 2018. It is possible in January 2020 to apply for NHR either for 2020 forwards or for 2019 forwards as you have to choose the year as part of the application. In your case you need to be careful to apply for 2019 by 31st March 2020.
Jan 30th 2020, 2:45 pm
#83
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 11
Re: NHR application without accountant
Hi it's me again,
I think I'm at the last step to apply for NHR - I have obtained the portuguese residency and I'm registered with Financas and I can enter the NHR application form.
Isn't there really anything else than entering 2019 as initial year of NHR, my former country of residency a "tick" to declare that I fullfill the requirements?
(I have not been tax resident before, I have the residency and I'm a "Life Science Expert" which is one of the high value professions).
I was told that you have to be careful with the application, but the form looks straightforward and I'm not sure if I really need assistance fro man advogado...
Thank you for your advice
Alexander
I think I'm at the last step to apply for NHR - I have obtained the portuguese residency and I'm registered with Financas and I can enter the NHR application form.
Isn't there really anything else than entering 2019 as initial year of NHR, my former country of residency a "tick" to declare that I fullfill the requirements?
(I have not been tax resident before, I have the residency and I'm a "Life Science Expert" which is one of the high value professions).
I was told that you have to be careful with the application, but the form looks straightforward and I'm not sure if I really need assistance fro man advogado...
Thank you for your advice
Alexander
Jan 30th 2020, 3:03 pm
#84
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,834
Re: NHR application without accountant
Sounds to me like you're doing it right. A second opinion never hurts, though.
Jan 30th 2020, 3:54 pm
#85
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 18
Re: NHR application without accountant
Careful is an understatement.
When you say "entering 2019 as NHR" do you mean to pay taxes on your income received throughout 2019?
I had an awful case where a person ticked the tax years before they were supposed to and had to pay taxes in Portugal for that year despite having paid taxes the same year in Spain.
When you say "entering 2019 as NHR" do you mean to pay taxes on your income received throughout 2019?
I had an awful case where a person ticked the tax years before they were supposed to and had to pay taxes in Portugal for that year despite having paid taxes the same year in Spain.
Jan 30th 2020, 4:00 pm
#86
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 11
Re: NHR application without accountant
I had an awful case where a person ticked the tax years
this sounds definitely awful - I supposed that double taxation is not happening. It's probably easier for me to start NHR in 2020, as I was living in China in 2019 and I anyhow had a net salary, due to being an expat.
Nevertheless: is there anything else, what needs to be considered during the application?
Thank you
Alexander
Jan 30th 2020, 4:04 pm
#87
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,834
Re: NHR application without accountant
Jan 30th 2020, 4:10 pm
#88
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 11
Re: NHR application without accountant
If you became resident in Portugal in 2019, you must apply for NHR for 2019 onwards. If you apply for 2020 you will be rejected. You may get no benefit from NHR in your 2019 tax return but you'll have the potential benefits for the remaining 9 years.
Jan 30th 2020, 4:18 pm
#89
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,834
Re: NHR application without accountant
Portugal allows split-year treatment so you would declare the first ~11 months as a non-resident (and pay no tax) and the remaining part as a resident (with only foreign income(?) which may be tax-free due to NHR). It depends how the country you've come from works as to whether you get caught there for your December income too.
Jan 30th 2020, 5:23 pm
#90
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2016
Location: Alvaiázere, central Portugal
Posts: 591
Re: NHR application without accountant
If you don´t have your application submitted by 31 March, just 2 months time, you have had it. Obviously, it makes sense to get it in asap.