New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

Hello again....
I'm travelling to Tomar, Central Portugal to start interviewing builders with the relevant certificates for a new build villa.
Does anyone have any experience in New Build, and wants to pass on any tips before I start the process? I'm wondering about new build, versus Pre-fabricated build, e.g. at https://www.vigobloco.pt/portfolio/buildings
In the UK I've found pre-fab to be quick and upmarket... and more expensive than traditional build. Does that hold in Portugal as well?
I've found myself become interested in sceptic tanks recently as well... how much
I'm thinking about doing this in two parts, firstly the ground works, including the landscaping (its on terraced land), foundations, swimming pool and sceptic tank, and concrete pads, then potentially using another builder to do the block and build work, or pre-fab if they are competitive.
Any experiences?
There's some pretty snazzy windows from Portuguese company Otiima, although they're maybe a bit high end and I can't find any indicative prices for them, which is never a good sign.
Is there anyone in the Tomar area wants a beer and has experience to share, then don't be stranger...

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

My big tip for new builds in Portugal;
Don't.
I'm a building guy, made many homes with my own hands; which is fun.
What's not fun is the years of red tape and tedious permits with dates that expire before you have time to execute them.
And all the time you wait, your life is slipping past and so is your money.
4 years is a normal time frame for building or re-building permits.

So find something close to what you want that's already built; maybe by a German or a Brit, who has sunk treasure, blood, time, and love into a place, and then passed on or gone "home".
Make some changes, personalize it, be happy.

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

Thanks for speedy response!

Yes, agree re the planning process, as it happens I've got a plot with (nearl) full permissions.... and I'm retiring from UK in maybe 2 to 3 years, so I think I'm about on the right page. Fortunately a native Portuguese guy has done the majority of the planning heavy lifting, and I have an architect designed plan approved by the Camara.
I take your point: the architect seems happy to continue with me as a client, but I'm confused as to his role in the actual build. In the UK an architect would shepherd the whole thing through the system (and charge me....) in Portugal I'm not sure if he will just assist in finding a builder, then the builder gets the license, and the builder has the responsibility to get the thing built. Not sure I've fully understood what's normal practice.
Hence a quick trip to talk to the architect to clear up if he's registered the project in my name, after I purchased the plot in October, and applied for the final water\sewerage survey. He said he would, but 2 months and ..... nothing.... Still I've got a plot with a ruin on it, and permission to build a 4 bed villa. (yes, the notary checked the permission was good).

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

I wish you the best of luck then; I only know of the trouble second hand, we avoided the mess by buying a house that was already complete (legally anyway, we only kept the outer shell).
My understanding is that building permission, normally referred to as a "project" is not transferable, so a buyer has to go through the entire process again. Of course a precedent was set so it should go though without too much trouble, still, it takes time.

Someone told me that he used a legal trick to work around that, where the property was paid for, but deed wasn't transferred until after the build. The scheme sounded fishy to me.

My impression is that the architect in Portugal is the one who oversees the project and the constant stream of permissions and inspections. If there is any corruption going on, the architect is the go-between.
Despite everyone believing that the wheels need greasing to get anything done, I've never met anyone who admitted paying an overt bribe (and I have asked).
However, there may be some advantage to hiring people who are in favor, and/or buying materials from certain suppliers.

They always tell you it will takes 2 or 3 months... maybe sometimes it does. Other times, someone is waiting for someone or something and time stretches out.

You definitely should visit your property and nose around; look, listen, fondle the papers, and talk to anyone you can talk to. Neighbors, camara functionaries, candidate builders, neighbors, and especially any previous clients of your architect. Be seen, make a connection to the people there if you can. That will help you and feel good too.

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

Noted re the hands on element.

The architect is quite a large practice, my concern is I'm small beer for them and not at the top of the pile.

Interesting re the transfer of the building licence. I did think I could use one builder for the foundation and another for the shell. May have to revise that idea.
​
Interestingly the two items outstanding, as I understand it, are 1) the water/sewerage survey and 2) changing the ownership of the project at the Camara to my name, now the sales is complete and the land registry updated.

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

I would have thought it best to keep with one builder for all of the project, to avoid the obvious issues of responsibilities, and any future issues.

When it comes to the approved project, try to ensure you will not need to make any external alterations (even moving a window 10cms). The approved project is what the Camara will expect to see if they do a Vistoria, before giving a Habitation License. They can be very very picky....
If you are lucky they may not do a Vistoria, some Camaras dont on every build, but you never know.
I was given a e1000 fine on one build I did, after the Camara rocked up at the site, 1 day before doing a Vistoria, took pictures of the house.
They approved the alterations made during the build and fined me for those alterations having not been approved when they took the images, despite the fact that they approved them on the day of the Vistoria and gave me a HL....
Lesson, do not even think of messing with them

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

I was considering a pre-fabricated build, and I wondered if they would be the same builders for everything, hence the 2 builders thing.
I think there's a some variance between Camara's. The architect has said that he can submit a final set of drawings, which will reflect reality, and its that which will be used for the sign off, so internal items can change, and finishes can be updated. I'm sure we can't change dimensions or windows etc just details. Not sure which Camara you dealt with, I'm dealing with Tomar in Central Portugal, and the reputation is to be "slow".
The building is in a very rural village area. We have to follow the outline of the existing ruin, fortunately thats enough with 2 stories to get a decent 4 bed modern style villa built.
Where did you build?

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

Hi,

There are variations on how rules are implemented and the speed by different Cameras, there also seems a bit of variation within a Camera depending on who you speak to etc.
The derelict place I had was in rural area near Tomar, There was a Brit couple who did a new build on a plot then opened an estate agency in Tomar who knew the Camera systems, people and problems as they have gone through the process, I bought through them, their agency seems to still be there so I could PM your some details and if you go to Tomar they may be able to help.

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

Thanks all contacts would be much appreciated.

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

I'm joining this late.... so I appreciate that you think you have everything in hand, but I doubt it.

Firstly, you used the word "responsibility" relating to your chosen builder earlier. Be aware that, under Portuguese law, responsibility remains with you, as "dono de obra". Thus your builder can screw you royally.... and your only option is to take him to court (I'm 9 years into that!!). Any issues with the building (variance from approved plan) and you are liable to a hefty fine And the costs for correction.

Secondly, your initial idea to split the work seemed logical...... anywhere else..... but to do this you would need to be recognised as a developer yourself, have all the legal wherewithal and your own insurance to cover the build. The builder has the insurance and once they are named on your approved plans, you are contracted to them.... and if you find they have sold you a crock.... too late.

The unfortunate thing I found is that everything will run contrary to expectations. Use local architects, because they know the Camara, use local builders, as they can be recommended by the architect - do not attempt to be clever, to use "national experts" or to circumvent the boring realities.... because it will come back to bite you. Do not expect experts to have the suggested expertise or to have any ability to "think outside the box" (my civil engineer seemed unable to understand geometry!!)

Basically, as has been said. Invest your time and money in buying something ready-built that suits your needs and save yourself the stress and expense of chasing people who you thought were professionals.

Good luck.

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

Call me cynical but I totally agree with liveaboard. Don't bother.

My view is born out of experience. ​​​​​​I fit solar PV. Usually this is an after thought so I regularly go into properties to quote after the builder and his sub-contractors have left. 100% of these clients have issues with their properties, things don't work, poor quality finish, cracks in the build, leaks in the pool, you name it, and without fail the builder has washed his hands of it and refuses to come back and fix things. He's already moved onto his next victim.

By example the last property I quoted before Christmas had leaks in the fabric of the pool, the overflow has been constructed too high for the pool cover to open/close correctly, the heat pump for the underflow heating had failed, the collectors for the solar heating were mounted behind a glass balustrade so are useless, solar hot water leaked all it's glycol so ran entirely on electric immersion, open drain in the kitchen and another in the utility room, flue from log burner leaked into ceiling, no plugs installed for bathroom towel rails, cracks already starting to appear in various parts of the render.

If you're determined to continue be prepared to have the property cost way more than any quote you receive, take way longer than any expectation you have and once you move in and discover the shortcuts and bodges the builder did, ensure you budgeted enough contingency to have another builder put them right. Don't trust anyone but yourself to project manage either. You have to be there on site, watching a like a hawk, spot the bodges before they render over them.

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

Hi Jono
I suggest you talk to the international expat community in Tomar. They meet at Orquestra de Sabores cafe (next to the river ) on Friday nights 17.00 to 19.00

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

Thanks, good idea, its a nice restaurant and I'm set for end of Jan next visit, will look forward to it. .... How will I know who the right people are?

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

25 to 30 people from 6 to 10 different countries all at one table ....finding them shouldnt be difficult !

Re: New Build Tips and Tricks....
 

Listen to this man, you will save time, money and stress.

Absolutely sound advice.