fergus

I have looked at the portaldasfincas and it seems to support other posts that state you must (once again) have a fiscal representative if you are a UK citizen and tax domicile in UK even though you may have a house in Portugal. This is due to UK leaving EU.

Having a NIF number almost certainly means you now need a fiscal rep. The fiscal representative must have a tax domicile in Portugal.

What I am wondering is, as an Irish citizen with UK tax domicile and house in Portugal, do I also now need a fiscal rep in Portugal? Anyone know?

chislenko

Following this closely Fergus, whilst I realise it says you must have a tax rep, what concerns me is that if you don't have any income in Portugal therefore no tax to pay it just appears to me to be a way to pay a retainer to a Portuguese professional for doing nothing.

Or am I looking at it too simply, can someone explain what this person would do for us? I remember when we first bought we were told we must have one for IMI payments and read on here some horror amounts people were being charged for what is a very straightforward operation. (We never engaged one by the way)

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Bomber Harris

Yes, the need isn't based on citizenship, is based on physical address, even a Portuguese citizen living in the UK is going to need one.

RichardHenshall

The requirement for a fiscal rep is based on living outside the EU.

Bomber Harris

They accept legal liability for your tax (IMI) obligations and the fines if you don't pay.
They're not required for addresses within the EU because a tax bill or fine imposed by one EUMS is legally enforceable in every other EUMS. For a non EUMS it's a very long winded & costly process (not worth bothering) to enforce that liability, hence needing someone in PT to become liable.

chislenko

Richard, but what would they actually do for someone with no Portuguese income?

wellinever

Surely you only need a fiscal rep if you own a property in Portugal, and are a NON resident of Portugal.
But make sure that if that is the case that you do not inadvertently remain Tax resident. of Portugal, Check the address listed in the Portal.

toots sweet

So for example.........if you are a non tax payer in the UK, do you need this rep? Or if you spend 6 months in PT and 6 months in UK?

Pistolpete2

The rationale is explained at post #4 and #5 above. It's nothing to do with your tax status in the UK in terms of tax on income there but only to do with whether or not you are resident in the EU, or in this case, Portugal.

So the question for you is whether the 6 months in the UK and six months in Portugal actually legally makes you resident and therefore tax resident in Portugal.

If you are resident, then there is no need for a fiscal rep. If one is positioned so as to deliberately NOT be PT resident and instead be UK (ordinarily) resident then the fiscal rep is needed. So six months plus one day in the UK and six months minus one day in PT = fiscal rep.

As was explained, if you aren't, it is hard for them to get their tax claws into you, hence the need for a rep within Portugal.

coleio

Basically (as I used to have) all your fiscal rep is a adult who has Portuguese residency/address and all they have to do is forward any fiscal mail to you to sort out - they are responsible if you do not cough up what you owe etc. You can make it as complicated or as simple as you want, I just asked my friendly lawyer who photographed any fiscal letter and attached to an email and didn't charge for the minute's work. If you ignore fiscal stuff, get it wrong and demand your rights (as you see them) in a shouty foreign voice you may still be quietly fined.

chislenko

Don't think anybody on here has been "demanding rights" in a "shouty" or other voice. People have only asked questions to which they were not sure / aware of the process / need for the process.

toots sweet

Ok ,but as chislenko has already asked, why do need one if I have no PT income? .

fergus

If you want the full details of what you must do you will find them below and at the portalsdafincas by using this link: https://info.portaldasfinancas.gov.p...s/default.aspx

So here are three examples from the link above:1. Sou cidadão britânico com NIF português e tenho a minha morada (domicílio fiscal) em Portugal. Após o Brexit tenho de cumprir alguma obrigação declarativa junto do Registo de Contribuintes da Autoridade Tributária e Aduaneira (AT)?

If you are british and have a NIF and have a house in Portugal and tax domical of portugal, then after brexit........

Não.



2. Sou cidadão britânico com NIF português e tenho a minha morada (domicílio fiscal) no RU. Após o Brexit, sou obrigado a nomear um representante fiscal?
If you are british, have a NIF, a house in portugal and tax domical is UK. After Brexit...............you need a fiscal rep.

Sim.

A designação de representante fiscal é obrigatória para os cidadãos que residam no estrangeiro, mais precisamente em país terceiro, fora da UE ou do Espaço Económico Europeu.

Nestes casos, devem designar um representante (pessoa singular ou coletiva) com domicílio fiscal em Portugal.



3. Sou cidadão britânico com NIF português e tenho a minha morada (domicílio fiscal) em Portugal. Após o Brexit, tenciono alterar a morada fiscal para o RU. Sou obrigado a nomear um representante fiscal?
If you are a british citizen with NIF and have a house in portugal, are domiciled in portugal but after brexit intend to cahnge your domical to UK you will need a fiscal rep.

Sim.

fergus

As you can see from my earlier post the portalsdafincas information helps if you are a UK citizen. My original post asked the question 'What if you are a EU citizen' do you still need a fiscal rep if you are not tax domiciled in Portugal? Someone has suggested in earlier posts that if you are Portuguese but tax domiciled in UK, then you will need a fiscal rep. But I can't find anything on the fincas portal about that. Does anyone have any links or useful references.

I am just trying to find out why when I am still an EU citizen that Brexit should affect me and force me to have a fiscal rep. Thanks for all the replies so far.

Bomber Harris

Because it's nothing to do with citizenship, it's only about where you are resident.
I quoted the relevant legal text on the other thread about this subject, Article 16 of the general tax law. When you read it you will find that even a Portuguese citizen who is going to be absent from Portugal for more than 6 months needs a fiscal rep.