Annetje

Did that survey in Tanzania, problem was that most things on the list were not available

ricko

I am currently on holiday in Portugal which has allowed me to look at supermarket and train costs.

After shopping in LIDL for the last couple of years, I found the supermarkets in Portugal more expensive. That made me think that Portuguese costs were similar to those of the large UK chains (ASDA, Tesco etc).

However, I came across a LIDL in Faro, and the prices were significantly more expensive than in the UK!

The train fare from Lisbon to Faro was 11 Euro (with assigned seat and 50% discount), which I think is a bargain.
If you got a reasonable connection at Faro, you could go from Lisbon to Tavira in 4 hours.

EMR

We do not shop in Lidl or Aldi but in Portuguese supermarkets and buy their own brands.
With local markets and We are spending about 20% less than our equivalent weekly UK shop
Add in wine and the saving is even greater.

Ukkram

We would love to relocate to the UK as our kids live there but unfortunately it is far too expensive.

We live right next door to LIDL here in PT and we know the prices. A bit more expensive than Continente 500 m down the road. We compare prices according to the adverts and buy where and what is cheaper as we are cheapskates.

So we know prices by now. Not hardware and pots and pans plus clothing that is ridiculously expensive here but FOOD.

Our kids live in the Cotswold region and they have a LIDL and TESCO near them and we were shocked at the high prices. Up to 3 times higher than here in PT for food.

The same Spanish wine I buy here at €0.87 per liter is GBP 3.99!!!

So I don't know where you got your info from and if you can prove me wrong, I will relocate in a shot.

Loafing Along

Portuguese press published recently their annual survey of supermarket costs and store rankings. Obviously Lisbon area generally more expensive. One of the cheapest was Jumbo in Faro ( surprising ! ) but overall Continente came out top in most places.
Best thing about Continente are their wine promotions

https://www.deco.proteste.pt/familia...-mais-baratos#

Ukkram

So makes me think were #ricko got his prices from.

mfesharne

Locally made wine in my area is really good & only €5 per 5 litres.

Loafing Along

Ukkram

Continente €5 box wine gone up to €8. Same price as LIDL.
Continente salmon cutlets €9 and LIDL €14.

Moses2013

If you are always buying a specific Spanish wine then it will seem cheaper but I doubt you can live off that wine. If you look at Lidl prices in the UK and other parts of Europe, Portugal is not much cheaper. The pineapple is 99c in Portugal this week and in the UK 89p. You often get different special offers too and due to the larger amounts available in the UK 1.5kg potatoes are 19p for example. It just depends how you shop. Even clothing can be a lot cheaper in the UK and again depends on the brand.
Shoe in Portugal €34,96 http://www.reebok.com/pt/reebok-roya...ls/BS6285.html
The same shoe in UK £17.48
http://www.reebok.co.uk/reebok-royal...ls/AR0679.html

If alcohol prices are a problem, you can also fill up your car in Portugal.

Midgo

Hi,

I have lived in and around Lisbon since '96 with some breaks in UK and Germany.

I actually had to ask the same question about the UK when we moved 'back' a couple of years ago (we have now returned, and are not going anywhere else). In the end, all my estimates for the UK were way out, despite all my spreadsheets, and I moved back to my home town so had good info sources.

I can compare to UK and Germany & all of the below is in my experience from Lisbon and might not be applicable to others. YMMV!

• Websites and cost of living guides are just absolute fantasy
• Asking people gave an idea but everyone's situation is different
• Food in UK in supermarkets on average not much different, but cheaper
• Going to café, eating out and social activities here much cheaper as long as you get away from tourist areas.
• Houses cold in winter.
• Take lots of advice from more informed people on here about buying a property, and be aware that you shouldn't fully trust anyone from officialdom in terms of information (about anything). I think generally you need to have your wits about you and yours eyes wide open more in Portugal than in the UK (or Germany)
• ALDI cheapest if you buy basic food and cook from ingredients.
• We spend around €400 per month (Luso-British couple and junior 'Bife com Alface' child) on food. We are not big eaters and all is cooked from ingredients (badly, by me)
• Rent is by far biggest outlay (wherever, but especially in tourist areas)
• I drove a Vespa around Lisbon for 5 years, and now shudder at the memory. I am still scared in a car, although this is also because I have started to loose my temper and drive like 'the Romans'. Again this is Lisbon. In the Algarve they stop at zebra crossings - incredible!
• There are many places on the 'Linha' (between Lisboa and Cascais) that are nice and very easy to get to Lisbon from, Oeiras, Sto Amaro, São Pedro, Carcavelos etc as long as you don't drive at rush hours (which are very long)
• I commuted from Oeiras to central Lisbon for years via CP train. It was quicker (around 50 mins) to get to work than I now take from another central Lisbon area, and was nice to sit on train and read or whatever. I cycled to station. Trains very cheap compared to UK. If you live by one of the not stopping at all stations stations, its' quicker (Oerias, Carcavelos, cant remember exactly all of them look up on CP site)
• The 'Other side' (of the river) is also an option if not commuting (although there is a train over the bridge, but NEVER try to drive over 25 Abril at rush hour). Also nice areas over the Vasco de Gamma bridge. Again property prices vary hugely depending on area, but generally cheaper than North of river.
• All this depends on if you are commuting or just popping in every so often.
• Lisbon property has gone ballistic, as has mass tourism. Great if you own property and hotels, crap if you are a normal person. RIP Lisbon ('descaracterizado' is the best term I have heard - sorry, it slipped out )
• Cascais is expensive, but this is anecdotal for me as I have never lived there
• 'Cascais' can mean lovely by the beach or horrible suburbs
• Wine is so good and cheap that your liver is far more of a worry. Same for Superbock (or Sagres, but I don't like it) beer, and there are now great although expensive micro-brewery beers now too.
• Cars are ridiculously expensive, second hand can be 5 or even 10 times more expensive here as in UK. But car insurance cheap and is any driver, and tax very cheap too.
• I stock up on clothes and shoes etc in UK, similar for other goods where market is so much bigger.
• Internet and mobiles (and TV, but I consider this the work of the devil and don’t do it) €75 (please tell me how you get it for less!)
• Bills depend on how much you use (sounds daft but true). I don't remember much difference from UK but not hugely different as I remember. Having or not having a dishwasher &/or dryer etc made much more of a difference)
• All this should be remembered to be w.r.t. minimum wage (monthly, not weekly) here of, now, €580 (whoopeeee!). Hence PT is relatively pretty expensive for the normal people.
• I think for me the most important is that since the countryside and climate here is so good, you don’t have to spend so much to have a great life
• Read The Portuguese: A Modern History by Barry Hatton - although he has obviously seen it from a pretty privileged background, its a great perspective on the culture - it felt uncanny to read
• The Algarve or Coimbra or Porto is not Lisbon, as Cornwall, Cambridge or Manchester is not London. I hate London, but love Lisbon (despite my moaning), again personal country bumpkin sailor opinion but gives a relative idea.

I'll stop there .....


Sorry if that sounds a bit like a 'how long is a piece of string' answer, I was trying to be helpful and I myself always ask similar Q's as they do give you an idea, but there are many options and Portugal is a very varied place. I love it.



In summary, just do it and then you will find out. If you spend too much you will have to cut back somewhere. If you have no rent it's possible to live cheaply.



I wouldn't be anywhere else, and sometimes I hate it here


Boa sorte!

Loafing Along

Great post but spotted this so go to NoS - we have Internet ( Fibre Optic so great speed) , Fixed line, TV ( some excellent movies and series on open channnels ) and two mobiles with data packages for €58,70 a month

As a "By the way" we were very surprised how cheap Germany , Baden Wurtenburg, was for general grocery shopping including wines and eating out after living there following many years in Spain.

Midgo

Thanks, but NOS didn’t have a connection to our road (in central Lisbon) and told us we would have to have a dish, so we had to go with good old Monopolistic PT (MEO) non-fibre. I'm sure I could get a better deal with MEO if I was a new customer, same as UK.

Someone from MEO rang our doorbell this year to tell us we could now get fibre so I called them and they said it was not available in our street and that that person who called was only sub-contracted by MEO and 'hence not their responsibility'. I knew not to waste any breath trying to argue the point.

Moving hopefully in the not too distant future so will live with it for now, but then will try for NOS

PS: Yes, I was surprised with how cheap Germany was as well, and how much I liked it there.

Ukkram

I loved Germany but it was too expensive. We lived in Beckum near Dusseldorf. A small town where I worked in a cement factory for a while. Rent is almost double compared to here in PT.
I was paid in South African Rands and could not afford to buy meat so we lived off veggie soup.
I fail to see how some posters can say it is cheaper than PT. Numbeo.com is rather accurate with Porto and Cape Town as I have lived in both.
I would need €1k more pm to live in the UK or Germany than I do in PT.

Midgo

I found some of my old spreadsheets noting how much we paid for bills every month (I identify with Don Tillman):

House 1 (Central Lisbon: Ground floor 2 bedroom flat in 'historical' building (i.e. beautiful and cold and damp), baby and toddler and me and the wife)
Average per month between 2009 and 2013
MEO, (Internet, only fixed phone, TV) €46
EDP (Electricity) €90
EPAL (Water) €23
Lisboa Gás (Gas!) €24
Total Bills: €183
Food and other stuff: ~ €1500 (incl new small person supplies & wood for Fogo Montanha Heat exchanger type wood burner (Excellent but a PITA) and gas bottles for gas heater (€23 a pop) in winter)
Going out and socialising €0, guess why.

House 2 ( Central Lisbon: 1st floor 2 bedroom flat in 'historical' building, Infant / Junior and me and the wife)
Current monthly
MEO €75 (including 2 mobiles)
EDP €65 (now includes gas)
EPAL €25
Total Bills €165
Food €500
NB plus gas bottles for gas heater (€23 a pop) in winter
Going out and socialising €0, I still need a life

2006 1.2 VW Polo (cost €5k in 2015!)
Car Insurance 165 € (as is usual here any driver & we only have 3rd party)
Car Tax 50 €
CustoJusto is quite good for looking at vehicle prices

I haven't included rent as this has almost doubled in my area in the last 10 years, is so location specific and I think you are going to buy.

Obviously, we end up spending LOTS more than this per month on 'stuff', but that is so case & location specific that its not worth including.

I know nothing about house ownership outlays like IMI as up to now have been always renting. I just found this in English from Price Waterhouse which seems to be informative (although its 2017), I'm sure there are lots of other sources and info on this forum