sportpix

Panic. I have just received an emailed invoice from Lagos town council for 230 euros - this is for water and rubbish collection etc. My "normal" bill is around 10 euro per month so something is very wrong here, especially as I left Portugal in mid-October and will not return for another couple of weeks. This means that my apartment was empty for the period being charged and the water supply was turned off since I've been away. Is there some sort of annual charge that I'm missing or has the council (computer) simply got it wrong? I tried to open the document in Google Chrome but for some strange reason it didn't want to translate into English.

Rambling archer

Hi Sportpix - this is what we normally call the water bill? So it is usually based on the water consumption and the standing charges for the rest ... is the meter normally read by yourself, or the condominium, or is it estimated every month. Since you have been away, if you normally READ the meter and submit the figures, perhaps they have had to estimate (this should be marked on the bill?) and estimated over the top?!? Normally it would be a simple thing to take a photo of the meter and take it to the town hall/water board office and make a request .... Can you wait til you get back? Could turning the water off have confused something?

RichardHenshall

Or the latest invoice could be the catch up bill after a long period of estimates.

macliam

Agreed. In Olhao, the bill is made up of charges for water consumption, sewerage, drainage and rubbish collection. The first will be estimated, except for an annual reading, the rest are based on the water consumption, a standing charge and a generalised charge for services. If you still own the property and haven't informed the camara that you are absent, they have no reason to assume that you are not liable for the normal monthly charge (about €13-15 euros for me)..... and even if you have informed them of your absense, as the property owner, you are still liable for your share of services offered.

If you want to PM me an anonymised copy of the bill, I'll try to make sense of it for you.

Alan PT

The "live" translate in Chrome only works on web pages, not on docs. But you can download the doc, then upload it to Google Translate for docs here: https://translate.google.com/?sl=pt&tl=en&op=docs

GrahamF

I don't understand the original post, we pay SMAS (water company) for water and sewerage and the only Council bill is for annual property tax. Does the Camara supply water in some areas?

macliam

Yes - in Olhao, Ambiolhao provide the services I previously indicated, water, sewerage, drainage and rubbish collection (plus parking charges!)

sportpix

I tried both PM and email but wasn’t able to attach docs to either. PM wanted a url while email didn’t seem to offer any form of attachment 😢

RichardHenshall

You use the first email to disclose your email address. When the recipient replies (by email) you get their address and can proceed to add attachments to the third message.

sportpix

Hi RA, I replied to this last night (it's now 7am on Sunday here...) but for some reason my reply disappeared into the ether. I don't normally read my water meter, only the electric. I just get an email from the council with a number - usually around 10-12 euro, and a piroshki's chart showing usage and then the council deduct the fee from my rapidly dwindling bank account. From 10 to 12 euro to 230, especially when I've been away tells me something is very wrong.

RichardHenshall

Your bill should have a table, beside the chart of the last year's monthly consumption, showing the last six month's readings, each labelled as 'Leitura CML' (actual Câmara reading) or 'Estimativa' (estimate). The top one is what you're being charged for this month.

riv

## From 10 to 12 euro to 230, especially when I've been away tells me something is very wrong. ##

I had a similar shock a couple of months ago, and since, with suddenly increased water bill from Castro Marim Câmara.

I have been absent from the house since October. I asked my helpful neighbours to investigate and they found a water leak of some kind. Then switched the water supply off at the main tap.

Can you be absolutely certain that there is not a water leak somewhere in your property ?

It is possible to contact your Câmara via email : find their website, and within it somewhere you will find an email address for inquiries ~at least a generic one. If you are lucky there might be a specific address for water.

I emailed the generic one and got a reply from a named staff member, ie with his own email address. I have had exchanges with him since then and he confirms that there is now no consumption of water ( since the neighbours closed the tap ).

You should at least try to establish communication with the water section of your Câmara.

I don't know but it may be the case that they can , at your request, shut the water supply off till your return.

If you don't know enough Portuguese you can compose your inquiry in English and use one of the online translators to convert to Portuguese. Also, underneath the Portuguese you could send the original English, in case the translation is mistaken ( though in my experience they are surprisingly good these days ).

macliam

I have seen the bill that sportpix received and it does seem that it is based on actual readings and that the volume jumped - to a level where he appears to be being penalised for using commercial volumes of water on a domestic account. Also, since the drainage/sewerage and rubbish costs are calculated from the clean water delivered, it is a triple whammy. I also conclude that there is a leak - or someone using his water supply, although sportpix thought his water supply was turned off. This seems unlikely, as the meter reading would not be affected on anything impacting the supply side.

I have already suggested much the same actions as riv and the Camara's email address is on the bill, so sportpix is now trying to get further information.

RichardHenshall

Toilet flush mechanisms (particularly modern push button types) are often the cause of increased consumption. They're not always obvious as the water leaks into the toilet bowl without flooding. Isolation by means of the wall-mounted valve when leaving a property for any time would be recommended.

A friend/neighbour who can access the meter should be able to detect if water is still flowing and maybe turn off the supply at the meter, outside the property?

GrahamF

This jump in price rings a bell but not with water. We're with EDP for gas and electricity and bill we received last autumn was 2 - 3 times the usual price and this coincided with smart meter having been installed a couple of months before. Their excuse was we had exceeded the normal domestic amount so higher charge band applied. Usage had not changed.