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Learning Portuguese

Old Feb 6th 2021, 6:07 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by campos
Out of curiosity I've just downloaded the Pimsleur. The first ten units are in Continental (as they refer to European) Portuguese. The presentation and structure is interesting. I'll give it a shot.
Do let us know how you get on. Is it expensive, one to one?
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Old Feb 6th 2021, 7:00 pm
  #77  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by bons
Do let us know how you get on. Is it expensive, one to one?
I downloaded
the audio course
The only other audio course I've ever used was a Michel Thomas (sic?) one years ago, for Italian.
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Old Feb 6th 2021, 7:28 pm
  #78  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by bons
I've realised what the biggest problem for me is learning Portuguese, when I'm speaking a language I visualise the word in my head, I often can't do this with Portuguese. The pronunciation of a letter often changes with the spelling for example, maca and macas, the 'c' sound changes for the plural, at least it does on the recording that I'm listening to, so I don't have the'ss' sound I'm replacing it with a 'z' so I don't 'see' the word. Estou, is pronounced 'shtow', I had no chance in learning that at first, as it's a commonly used word I have got used to it, but it's trickier with less often used words. If that makes any sense, it does to me.
I think the issue you're calling out here is the same with any regional British or Irish accented English..... imagine the poor foreigner having to come to terms with "wodjawant" or "spose" (and in my own dear City, a plethora of words and phrases that seem only to exist on the Shannon).

Just like having to learn that "Reading" is pronounced differently from reading, or the plural of sheep is sheep, you have to learn that some words are commonly abbreviated.

If the words where you think the "c" sound changes are maçã and maçãs, then your recording is wrong. The "c" is soft in both cases, but the "a" sound changes slightly......

BTW - "Estou" is, as you say, normally pronounced "shtow"..... except on answering the phone where it becomes "tow"!
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 8:56 am
  #79  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by macliam
I think the issue you're calling out here is the same with any regional British or Irish accented English..... imagine the poor foreigner having to come to terms with "wodjawant" or "spose" (and in my own dear City, a plethora of words and phrases that seem only to exist on the Shannon).

Just like having to learn that "Reading" is pronounced differently from reading, or the plural of sheep is sheep, you have to learn that some words are commonly abbreviated.

If the words where you think the "c" sound changes are maçã and maçãs, then your recording is wrong. The "c" is soft in both cases, but the "a" sound changes slightly......

BTW - "Estou" is, as you say, normally pronounced "shtow"..... except on answering the phone where it becomes "tow"!
I gave a specific example that may be wrong. I am going on my experience though, I personally find Portuguese a very difficult language to learn. I have experience of other language learning and found them to be much easier to learn than Portuguese. If others don't experience that, that's great for them, I am struggling with it. But I will master at least the basics before 2022 dawns.

Last edited by bons; Feb 7th 2021 at 10:30 am.
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 9:32 am
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

For listening comprehension, and the normal pronunciation by natives, I find listening to talk radio useful, either actively or passively, while I'm doing other stuff. My understanding of French has improved doing this with RadioFrance . Listen to RTF radio channel 1, 2, and 3 for similar content. I advise my better students (of English) to do the same with BBC radio 4 and World Service, for example.
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 10:30 am
  #81  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by campos
For listening comprehension, and the normal pronunciation by natives, I find listening to talk radio useful, either actively or passively, while I'm doing other stuff. My understanding of French has improved doing this with RadioFrance . Listen to RTF radio channel 1, 2, and 3 for similar content. I advise my better students (of English) to do the same with BBC radio 4 and World Service, for example.
That is brilliant, thanks for that.
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Old Feb 8th 2021, 3:57 pm
  #82  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by campos
Pimsleur - David Sedaris's preferred language courses. I remember him recounting some of the expressions it taught in beginners Japanese- most amusing. Maybe Portuguese is different.
It was the method (with lots of listening practice) that I found useful.
The particular phrases they used could probably be improved, but they are certainly more relevant than the ones I saw in phrase books when I first started travelling.
I haven't heard that particular episode of David Sedaris, but he seems to inspire humour from the most mundane of sources.
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Old Feb 9th 2021, 11:10 am
  #83  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by campos
For listening comprehension, and the normal pronunciation by natives, I find listening to talk radio useful, either actively or passively, while I'm doing other stuff. My understanding of French has improved doing this with RadioFrance . Listen to RTF radio channel 1, 2, and 3 for similar content. I advise my better students (of English) to do the same with BBC radio 4 and World Service, for example.
RTP Play is free on Android and allows you to see live TV - like the News on both RTP1 and RTP3 (which is broadcast from Porto). There's a lot of politics and football, but the context will help train the ear to different accents and pronunciation - which might be more difficult in the Algarve (although many of the people working there come from other parts of Portugal).

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Old Feb 9th 2021, 12:48 pm
  #84  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by macliam
RTP Play is free on Android and allows you to see live TV - like the News on both RTP1 and RTP3 (which is broadcast from Porto). There's a lot of politics and football, but the context will help train the ear to different accents and pronunciation - which might be more difficult in the Algarve (although many of the people working there come from other parts of Portugal).
For those stuck in the UK, RTP Play TV channels might not be available due to geo blocking (although there may be ways around that ).

Radio stations, on the other hand, are freely available without the need for compromising of any potential scruples.
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Old Feb 13th 2021, 8:51 am
  #85  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

My Samsung TV ( in UK ) has the App for RTP Play. Lots of channels and also many programmes available to stream. (Visita Guiada, for example - wonderful for learning about many historic and beautiful places . ).

HOWever, what none of them seem to have is an option to watch WITH Portuguese subtitles ( as in, for Hard of Hearing ). Without the subtitles I have great difficulty following .

And the programmes which have Portuguese subtitles built in, as it were, such as The Avengers and Murder She Wrote - these ones can't be watched on the RTP Play outside Portugal because of rights issues.............

Does anyone know how one can get hold of subtitles on RTP Play when outside Portugal ?
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Old Mar 25th 2021, 7:18 pm
  #86  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

I've found another Portuguese languange learning site. Free so far - https://ling-app.com/ - It's a bit like Duolingo but European Portguese.
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Old May 25th 2021, 1:52 pm
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

I have found the pronunciation to be a big obstacle
In particular the letters o and s have different sounds
The BBC website
BBC - Learn Portuguese with free online lessons
helps with this
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Old May 26th 2021, 8:10 am
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by ricko
I have found the pronunciation to be a big obstacle
In particular the letters o and s have different sounds
The BBC website
BBC - Learn Portuguese with free online lessons
helps with this
I can't load any of the video content to check out the pronunciation, but it looks like Brazilian Portuguese which is prounced differently. The pronunication, in my opinion makes European Portugues a difficult language to learn. For instance 'estar', is 'shtar; loosely, I don't speak Portuguese very well, in European Portuguese. The pronunciation in Brazilian Portuguese is easier, I think.
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Old May 26th 2021, 2:32 pm
  #89  
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by bons
I can't load any of the video content to check out the pronunciation, but it looks like Brazilian Portuguese which is prounced differently. The pronunication, in my opinion makes European Portugues a difficult language to learn. For instance 'estar', is 'shtar; loosely, I don't speak Portuguese very well, in European Portuguese. The pronunciation in Brazilian Portuguese is easier, I think.
Brazilian pronunciation has many regional variations.... some sound little different overall to Portuguese, others seem to bear little resemblance - and I find the odd pronuncition of certain letters more off-putting than anything in the European variant.

Pronunciation rules for Portuguese are quite straightforward and certainly easier to learn than those for English - even here in the Alentejo, where the locals have a whole new vocabulary!
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Old May 26th 2021, 3:30 pm
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Default Re: Learning Portuguese

Originally Posted by bons
I can't load any of the video content to check out the pronunciation, but it looks like Brazilian Portuguese which is prounced differently. The pronunication, in my opinion makes European Portugues a difficult language to learn. For instance 'estar', is 'shtar; loosely, I don't speak Portuguese very well, in European Portuguese. The pronunciation in Brazilian Portuguese is easier, I think.
This is the link for European portuguese
BBC - Languages - Portuguese - Talk Portuguese - A video introduction to Portuguese

It says
In order to see this content you need to have both Javascript enabled and Flash installed

I think this is because it is an archived article.
The help I was thinking of, was in text, not in sound.
The Key Language section has some text about Pronunciation, though you have to go through all the different topics to find the complete information they have
For example, in the Yourself topic, they write
An s between vowels sounds like z in English maze.

For myself, as a relative beginner, I find this easier than trying to pick out different sounds.
I think it will be a while before I become attuned to the Portuguese sounds, and so I found this Pronunciation help very useful.
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