bons

I know, it's the thrid person conjugation, but I have to remember that it is essentially second person but not to conjugate as Tu.

scot47

Life would be easier if everyone was taught Latin in school ! The study of Latin was for me the best preparation for my life as a linguist, learner and teacher of Language and Languages ! "Loquisne linguam latinam ?"

Lesson 1 - Introduction to verbs - Latin (nationalarchives.gov.uk)

macliam

I find this odd.... as it exists as the formal form of address.in English - "Would Madam care to wait here", "Would Sir please follow me".

macliam

Early doors, I felt uncomfortable using "tu" with my BiL, so I used você.

Big mistake, as his response was a fairly terse "Es brasilero, o que?!!"

Brazilian portuguese has all the similarities of US English in the UK, but with the attitude that they know better......

macliam

One other "quirk" is the use of the third person with your name.... as in "será que o Carlos quer um bolo?".... would Charles like a cake? My SiL uses this form with me - again it is the polite form of address.

bons

Now you're being waaay too clever using the future tense or conditional future or whatever it is. I'm struggling with plurals. I'm barely on the present tense.

suiko

Yes, not a problem, surely? You just use the third person instead of the second. Same in Italian, Spanish and almost every other Romance language, no?

The "O Carlos quer..." thing is uniquely Portuguese, though, as far as I know.

dmu

When I learned French and German at school, the second person singular form was barely covered, except when reciting conjugations parrot-fashion. I had to check all the time when writing to penfriends....
In the same vein, unless they're married to a "native" and will usually use the second person singular when talking to their in-laws, newcomers learning the language aren't likely to use this form when trying it out on the locals. Master the polite form first, and then the familiar after you've made friends (and I found that the initiative to say tu/du came from them...)
HTH

Midgo

Also, remember to not worry too much about grammar or you will never learn to speak if you get too scared of making mistakes

I was warned about my MiL's sharp tongue before our first meeting so I purposely treated her as tu (sharp intakes of breath all around at that there was I can tell you) knowing that I could get away with it as a foreigner (that is always good to remember too). She liked me from the start, so that didnt do me any harm

Just trying to say, good to learn correctly but be careful you dont get all tied up - just get out there and make a fool of yourself - its fun.

the hardest thing for me as an Eng/scientist was dropping my 'need to learn every detail exactly' attitude for a 'learn thru 'absorption' approach - you dont have time to picture the neat tables when you are talking

I can talk 'fluently' (what does that mean? The bar keeps moving up as you learn more, never satisfied) but my grammar is rubbish

I have a very strong Bife accent - but I dont want to loose it (I admire my French friends with perfect English and so strong accents,) and my wife thinks it is sweet.

With my German ex FiL he said, after a few beers, 'we should 'dutzen' now'. I thought he meant move onto a new beer called Dutz or something, not start to use Du. He laughed so hard when I asked him about what this beer was like. And even more when he realised I was being serious

bons

You are right to a point, but it might be easier later on if I learn grammar now. I'm following this programme which is great lots of speaking and listening with some spelling. I'm ignoring accents on words, but I wonder if I should try harder to learn them. Anyway, I'll keep on keeping on. It's more difficult from here when I can't go out and speak, I mean, muddle through the language with native speakers. I have always found when trying to speak a language that the native speakers appreciate you trying even if they have to revert to speaking English to you than just assuming they speak English.

suiko

In Portugal "muddling through the language with native speakers" generally means you saying something, them replying, you not understanding and them saying it again in English It's MUCH harder to get the practice than in Spain, for example.

macliam

I think the point Midgo is making is that over-concentration on grammar is one of the factors that prevents you from actually using the language - and I agree, although I have the avantage of Latin, French and Spanish at school and we both have Poruguese partners/extended family...... so that helps.

What I don't understand is people suggeting that Portuguese is particularly "difficult" or about "dialects", etc.. The pronunciation of Portuguese is an issue for those who find the nasals, etc. difficult, but the gramatical rules are quite straightforward - and I find Portuguese easier than "Spanish" as the rhythm of speech is similar to English. As for "dialects", I find Portuguese to be relatively uniform, allowing for regional accents and preferred usage (and I live in the Alentejo!) - "Spanish" is far more fractured in this respect, for example, the Andalucian usage is not a dialect, but is very different to classic Castillian..... not to mention the real "dialects" like Leonese or Aragonese, or the different languages like Basque, Catalonian or Galician.

I know people who have been doing "lessons" in Portuguese for years, yet who still cannot really speak the language - or people like me (and Midgo) who jump in with both feet, despite not being sure of the grammar. Occasionally I get the wrong end of the stick (or give it), but the only thing that gets me is when people comment to SWMBO about how well I speak...... a bit like the old Monty Python "Minister for Overseas Development" sketch!!
That's not my experience.... I find people as loathe to speak English as some English-speakers are to speak Portuguese! Of course, having kissed the Blarney Stone (for real), nothing will get in the way of me communicating!!

Red Eric

I like the way the President refers to himself as "O Presidente da República" as opposed to "I" when he's asked for his opinion on something.

I think he's a bit remiss in omitting to preface it with "Sua Excelência" though.

bons

I was taught French and a bit of German at school and I taught myself a bit of Spanish, none were as hard is Portuguese for just grasping the basics. The pronunciation is hard. This was my last sentence - Quantos cães tem? All I could hear was 'quanshcashty'. Reading it I could understand it easily. I'll have to travel Portugal with a pen and pad!! I'm not giving up, if the Portuguese can understand it and non-natives can learn it, then so can I!!!

bons

Well, the object of the exercise is to be able to understand them when they reply so we can carry on in Portuguese a bit longer. I'm not close to that yet though.