Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

Planning to move to Portugal in the next 6 months. Anyone recommend an English speaking lawyer and/or a surveyor in the central region of Portugal (not Lisbon) to help with house purchase. I can only seem to find international lawyers online which is not what I really need.

Would be grateful if anyone has expereince of using these services.

Thanks

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

Hey, welcome to the forum! Best to read a few threads on here first, familiarise yourself with the process and peoples experiences, but short version below ;)

Surveyors are almost unknown (find a builder to walk around with you is the closest you'll get). Lawyers may or may not be used (sometimes it's just the notary) but if you are using one then best to find one once you know where you will be buying (more specifically than central Portugal!) since you preferably need someone who knows the local area and local council

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

Hi Alan
Thanks I appreciate your reply. I take on board what you say, particularly about lawyers. While I understand what you say about surveyors - it possibly explains why I am having so much trouble finding one, it is strange that all the advice books on buying in portugal say you SHOULD get a house surveyed before purchase.

Regards

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

...and it's not bad advice. But as you found, not advice that most people (especially Portuguese) would follow. So it's difficult to find one and it would be unusual to make an offer subject to survey (not impossible, but unusual)

But there are a few around, RICS has a list, though be aware that not all of them will do what you are looking for, they might be mainly doing valuation surveys of commercial buildings for instance. So it might take a few enquiries to find one: https://www.ricsfirms.com/search/PT

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

This is no different in Spain and these services are usually done by architects.

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

We used a firm of structural engineers in Mafra to undertake a survey of one house we seriously considered buying near there, a few years ago.

ESTABIL - ENGENHEIROS ASSOCIADOS | Fiscalização

It was worthwhile as they advised us that there was severe damp underneath the foundations in the centre of the property which was not visible to the untrained eye.

In the Coimbra area, I have just done a quick search of the Portuguese Web and found this company.

https://www.baricentro.pt

There are no names on the website but they do seem to offer some survey services of the type you seek..

If you do not have an engineering experience, you should DEFINITELY get properties surveyed.

When we were searching for a new property in the Greater Lisbon area, We viewed 60 properties over 9 months and I would say at least half had some kind of structural problem. I have some basic construction knowledge & I often ruled out properties within a few minutes of entering a property. This include a pool deck that was about to slide down a hillside, another where the very old rear wall was bulging, another with a massive structural crack in the basement wall and another where the plot measurements did not conform with those legally registered. This last one had a further problem insofar as as owners we would have been legally liable for tax on an access track to the plot behind.

Estate Agents here generally have NO engineering, construction or legal knowledge, AND had NO interest in these issues when I raised these with them, so be very careful!!!!

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

Thank you for that. I really appreciate you sharing your experience. Even in Britain I have had pleanty of expereince of the venality of Estate Agents - one who tried to sell me a house with a mineshaft 3 meters from the from door.

I will be in Protugal house hunting in the next few months and will follow up on your leads.

Once again thanks

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

Well, to be fair, I wouldn't really expect estate agents anywhere to have that knowledge, it's not their job...

It's perhaps a bit alarmist to suggest that at least half of properties have "some kind of structural problem". Almost any house will have, if you look hard enough. It doesn't meant that it is about to fall down and the question to ask is how much it will cost to fix it.

I've paid for proper surveys (not the valuation reports most buyers in the UK get) and structural engineers reports on properties before, where it was really necessary, but I wouldn't apply it as a blanket rule personally. But everyone has the own experiences and perceptions of risk.

The biggest common issue with places in Portugal is lack of insulation and damp. So there's something to be said for buying either a new place or a place which needs significant work.

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

My purpose in looking for a survey is ONLY to find the issues like a swimming pool about to slide down the hilside or the difference between a major structural crack and settling crack in a supporting wall. In both cases I wouldn't be qualified to identify such problems. All I am sure of is that I will not be handing hundreds of thousands of Euros to someone for a house without someone qualified telling me its structurally sound.

Sincerely appreciate all comments.

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

My thoughts would be..... find yourself a good LOCAL solicitor..... they are far cheaper than in the UK and generally only bill for their time. Organize a few "first talks" which should either be free, or relatively cheap. Discuss your thoughts with them and ask if they work with an architect or structural engineer...if so, big tick. Then check out the architect or structural engineer mentioned - are they local? Does anyone have an opinion on them? In this way you should be able to come up with a team to work on your behalf. Mine in the Alentejo is good for trawling documents and works well with a local architect whose wife is a structural engineer. I wouldn't recommend him to fight a case in tribunal, but horses for courses.

Local is important, a local architect will know how good the Camara inpectors are, how good local builders are and (gulp!) how good other architects are. Since any recent construction will have passed through the planning process, he/she will have a good idea what to look out for. Likewise, if you are expressly concerned about subsidence or damp, they will be able to focus on that.

The downside is that, like in the UK, you are paying for advice, not a guarantee. Going through all the motions does not mean that there isn't a problem that isn't visible initially or via a one-off inspection. Good luck.

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

You could also get someone to travel over from the UK. A lot of Germans who buy in Spain (Mallorca) often use a surveyor from Germany just to be sure when it comes to structural problems.
You are better off paying an additional 500€ for the flight and accommodation and know what you are getting.

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

Why would a UK or German surveyor, with no knowledge of the local topography or construction methods, be better than a Portuguese equivalent? Perhaps you assume that any issues in Spain are the same in Portugal..... but I doubt it.

If you're going to spend €500, then spend it on someone who can do more than just look at the overall quality of construction.and speaks in an accent you like.

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

Never said better and how do you know that someone from abroad doesn't have knowledge? If I can't find someone who I trust, it's still better than nothing. As you said, you are paying for advice, not a guarantee. I personally would look for qualified architects but if you can't find someone it's another option. If I'm a good dentist in the UK, I can still look at teeth abroad and will be able to tell you if they are rotten or not;).
Performing the work (legal construction methods) is something different but that's not the job here.

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

Totally fine, if it makes you more confident in the process then it's worth doing, no question.

If you possibly can, be there when they visit and talk with them, or failing that, phone them. The problem with written reports is that nobody wants to be sued and you get the usual rubbish around "no visual evidence but might be a problem, recommend a further inspection by specialist pest control/soil sample/electrician etc etc" rather than a yes or no.

Most professionals will tell you *much* more useful information in a quick "off the record" conversation

Re: Lawyers and Surveyors for house purchase
 

Sorry, having had experience in Portugal, your example of a dentist is far off the mark. The construction methods, climate and many other things in Portugal will be beyond the general experience of a surveyor from the UK. Likewise, they will (hopefully) be au fait with UK building regs, but not those in Portugal, some things that they would expect in the UK are not acceptable in Portugal, ike the electrical system, or uncommon, like the foundations and/or damp control. The same is likely true of surveyors from other parts of the world, but I can't claim knowledge there. "Better than nothing" is not something I'd waste a lot of time on...... there are many reliable, qualified, architects in Portugal to choose from, it's just a case of finding them.