Robert1964

Hi Everyone,

My name is Robert. I'm 57 and live in the UK and I'm looking at the possibility of moving to Portugal to live and work in about two years time. As I know there will be quite a bit of planning to do before this can happen I thought I'd get a start on looking at all the requirements, so in no particular order, I'll be looking at the following:

D7 Resident visa (Does this enable me to work as well, mostly remotely back to the UK)?
What area I'd like to live (I would ideally like a property with a garden so I can grow my own fruit and vegetables, and have 3 bedrooms). One for work (I'm an IT engineer, computers, networking, VOIP, CCTV), I would also expect my budget to be around £80,000 and may need to be financed via a mortgage, with that in mind I expect I'd need to live in central Portugal and would need to travel 30mins to an hour to get to the coast at least.
Driving licence, would it be a straight swap with the UK licence or would a test be required?
There will be just my wife and myself moving.
High speed broadband providers.
Mobile phone providers
Travel insurance
Language courses as I certainly want to embrace the whole experience

Any pointers or suggestions (especially if anybody knows of a full step by step process guide) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Robert.

riv

Many practical issues raised. Most of which I would not be knowledgeable enough to advise.

One in particular though I would stress is the language. The sooner you start spending an appreciable amount of time on this the better. You could start already with Linguaphone courses or similar ( I believe the BBC does a basic language course online ).

Additionally, check out online the Cursos de Verão Para Estrangeiros offered by the major Universities. These last about a month and are excellent value, and taught be highly qualified Professors. They usually combine cultural visits and so on in the afternoons with classroom work in the mornings.

This year they will surely be affected by the Covid, but you never know, they might put on something for late summer. You would be looking to Coimbra and Porto I would think and could combine with house hunting in the countryside around.

As to househunting a certain amount can be done online, but before purchasing it is very sound advice to rent somewhere first for at least six months. Even if you think you have found an ideal house in an ideal village or town, problems can arise after you move in of which you had no inkling before doing so ( I've been there so you don't have to, lol ! ). And house purchase involves taxes and lawyers' costs which a short term rental contract does not.

You can read Portugal Resident online but you might like to take out a six month postal subscription as well.

Robert1964

Hi Riv,

Many thanks for you're reply. I've been practising with Duolingo but I'm not finding this to be very good as it seems to concentrate of individual words rather than grammer and conversation. I'll take a look at Linguaphone and see if that better meets my needs.

Your suggestion of renting for six months is actually a very good idea, I hadn't even given thought to renting for the reasons you said, and although I have been to many countries over the years, I have never actually been to Portugal, but based on my research, cost of property, cost of living, climate and safety, Portugal is really the only place I am considering.

Looking at properties online, I've been using sites such as aplaceinthesun.com, zoopla.co.uk and rightmove.co.uk, but at the moment this is more to give me a basic idea of what I can get with my budget and requirements, although I know I may need to be flexible with both.

Thankyou for you for your suggestion about the Portugal resident website.

Regards,

Robert.

coleio

You'd probably find spending a couple of weeks in several different places helpful to get an idea of what happens here and differences from one part to another (avoid going to the beach on a bank holiday) one thing is a lot of stuff is not internet based so visiting local estate agents and talking to them face to face is slow but very useful. Possibly a village near a large town like Tomar or Coimbra or Castelo Branco.

Here's a load of places (thousands) for sale and some for rent which basic Portuguese or some translate software make it easily searchable.
https://www.olx.pt/imoveis/

toots sweet

Robert.. welcome to the forum.
Can't help jobwise, but re language I am using Duolingo and finding it OK. (I do know enough PT though to read it reasonably enough, and know when they are using Brazilian words instead of PT ones. I use deepl.com to translate)). It does cover the grammar that you will initially need such as verb declining, plurals masculine/feminine nouns and adjectives. That is all you need really. When I first stated to learn i wanted to know the grammar too, but this isn't school. You just want to be able to read and try to converse enough to be understood and nothing more(till later perhaps). There is also a government website(free) but I didn't like it. Even if you copy and paste their answers they still tell you it's wrong! The biggest problem, as most will testify, is understanding the people themselves.
WE live in south central PT/very north Alentejo not far from the river. 30 mins from Santarem and about 7 mins drive from a small town.. Property is cheaper. Takes an hour to Lisbon and a bit more to beaches. For what you are looking for might be a struggle on that budget unless you are willing to to a bit of work. There are plenty of properties available though.

scot47

"I do not want grammar. I just want to speak the language." How many times did I haer that or similar when i was teaching ! The harsh reality is that acquiring a new langauge takes time and hard work. easier when you are younger but can still be done in old age.

liveaboard

2 biggest property websites are era.pt and remax.pt

Hire a lawyer independently to check everything before signing anything or paying anything.

Many properties in Portugal [especially rural low budget ones] have many claimants [family members] who will need to agree to the sale and sign the final contract.
That tends to cause delay, aggravation, and sometimes it just can't get done.

Patience is required. And proper legal advice.

EU.flag

Remote working back to UK is possible, but some issues can arise.
If you're working as contractor, that will be more complicated and you will need accountant specialized in PT/UK tax law. If your client allows remote working.

If you're on paye, you must check company rules for working from abroad, about issues like compliance, tax, insurance, gdpr, etc.
Some allow, some explicitly prohibit, depending on industry.

Red Eric

Hi Robert and welcome to the forum from me

Once you have a residence document, you have 90 days during which you can continue to drive in PT on a UK licence and initiate the exchange process. Beyond 90 days, you can no longer drive on it but have from there on up to 2 years to effect the exchange without having to sit a test.

If you have special categories on your UK licence, they won't be carried across in the exchange unless you can demonstrate that you sat a practical test for them.

Rambling archer

A comment from Liveaboard - 2 biggest property websites are era.pt and remax.pt

Personally, I found difficulties at local level with these big national companies, who seem to employ local "agents" some of whom may be dubious as to qualifications and knowledge of the job of selling and renting - cannot answer the most basic questions and tend to have a "proper" job, with the estate agency-ing being a bit of a sideline. It may be different in other parts of the country but thats what we found --- area covering from Nazaré to Coruche, Coimbra to Maffra. We found that the other listings OP mentioned were good to use as an introduction to the local agents they network for, especially once you have an idea of where you want to settle, and then you can check out others in your preferred area who may not advertise internationally but may have as good a service.

Suggest you start a little inland from Caldas da Rainha, towards Santarem, across the river (this is northern Alentejo down to Coruche), Torres Novas, Tomar, and up to Alvaiazere and Ferreira do Zezere, up to Avalar and Pinela, then back across via Ansiao towards Nazaré. Avoid Pombal which is famous for catching every rain cloud in the area!! The hills around Porto do Mos and Fatima are nice but liable to National Parks regulations which can be a nightmare!

Robert1964

Thank you all for the information that you have provided me with. I shall work my way through it all and hopefully I'll be able to keep to my timeline, I think at this stage I need to look at learning the language as best I can as this will help with everything else down the line, I'll look into the remote working requirements, both from a legal and financial point of view.

One further question I'd like to ask. What job agency websites would be worth taking a look at, because if the issues of remote working back to the UK are two much of an issue, then I may look at IT employment opportunities within Portugal.

Again, thanks for all your input.

Regards, Robert.

vertigobike

hi, Robert

welcome & congratulations on your decision!

I guess things can be a little more difficult with the UK having left the European Union; but as far as I understand Portugal gives UK citizens "preferred" conditions due to a long history between the 2 nations (sadly we don't seem to obtain the same from the UK lately)

you can browse the internet endless days and nights until you get sick of it; but as someone said, a lot of things aren't found online - like "real" houses/properties ("real" in the sense of both existing and not having an inflated price for foreigners; i.e. a real price like for a Portuguese national); national, regional and local laws; tax rules and documentation; etc.

the rule of thumb for real estate is the more you go away from the coastal areas and large cities and towns (towards inland and/or close to the border with Spain) the cheaper prices are; especially in small towns and villages (exceptions do apply) - yet sometimes you can get an ideal place but the infrastructure isn't sufficient for your needs (for example, some interior villages are up there in quality of living, pure air, nature, healthy lifestyle; but then they can lack not only fast broadband but also fundamentals like a decent cell phone coverage, terrestrial digital TV signal, good electrical supply without frequent disruptions, nearby gas stations, supermarkets, post office, bank, stores, hospital, freeways, etc.

a good balance would be some place in the "middle": not to close to the coast, not to close to the border; but of course depends on your own present and future needs: like what "close" means for you, if you'll have your own transportation or rely on public transportation only, etc.

as such, there are places in Portugal you will never (or rarely) see advertised online for real estate/properties; because those ads are from top real estate companies wanting to lure foreigners into buying the "gold nuggets"/filet mignon (where their profit margins are higher) plus all their add-ons such as maintenance guys, key holding, etc.; wanting you to get away from bargains in the "real Portugal" where they know their profits are tiny if even existent

interior districts bordering Spain (except Faro):

- Viana do Castelo (North)
- Vila Real (North)
- Bragança (North-East)
- Guarda (East)
- Castelo Branco (East)
- Portalegre (East)
- Évora (East)
- Beja (East)

center districts (except Santarém):

- Viseu
- Coimbra
- Santarém
- Évora
- Beja

also, the rule of thumb is the souther you go the better the climate is year-round; being the North colder, of course

so my suggestion would be for you to run away from the top real estates/websites and lawyers; and either hire a honest laywer that has a service of house-hunting for you; getting a honest relative/close friend to do that for you in Portugal; or even doing the job yourself hands-on in Portugal; like booking a one-way trip to Portugal, staying in some cheap accommodation (or buying-renting a 3-seat van like a Mercedes-Benz Vito, Ford Transit, Renault Traffic, etc.; put a mattress in the back and go from A to B to C to D with it and sleeping inside); and go see some places yourself in person to see if you like them

note that there's a lot of properties not listed online anywhere, with a simple wood board on a stick or nailed to a gate stating something like "O Próprio", "Trata", "Trata-se" or a simple phone number - those are the "gold nuggets" and are private sales/properties sold directly by the Seller/private individual without the middle man of the real estate agency - those properties are usually cheaper than the market prices because they don't have to fork out the real estate's commission

if you're house hunting in person I would suggest you to go a little scruffy (but not too scruffy), just to show the Seller/real estate company you're not rich; so they aren't tempted to higher up the prices - a definitely no would be to show up in very nice clothes, flashy watch/car, etc. :-)

it also depends if you're willing to buy a place in ruins, to then restore it; or if you want to buy a place "ready to live"

and once you're happy with a place then you get the ball running hiring a lawyer to get all the paper work/tax/legalities done; getting yourself a NIF tax number, an address, a bank account, etc.

some examples from "real" real estate websites (nevertheless note that scammers are everywhere; and caution is always recommended):

CustoJusto
OLX
Casa Sapo

https://www.custojusto.pt/braganca/m...ganca-30231730
https://www.custojusto.pt/braganca/m...ipica-27263388
https://www.custojusto.pt/evora/mora...mares-31274278
https://www.custojusto.pt/evora/mora...borba-32804898
https://www.custojusto.pt/evora/mora...uvial-31254914

https://www.olx.pt/imoveis/casas-mor...at_price%3Aasc

https://casa.sapo.pt/en_gb/buy-house...trict.coimbra/

for broaband + cell phone there's 4 major providers with "cartel-like" similar prices:

- Meo
- Nos
- Vodafone
- Nowo

travel insurance you can get anywhere these days, due some don't cover covid

driver's license should be ok using your own in the beginning; and then simply exchanging it for a Portuguese one later

residency/work visa should be +/- easy to get as well

for the Portuguese lessons you can either find online natives (try seeking Portuguese tutors, not Brazillians) - for example, one-to-one lessons via Zoom; or if in Portugal try searching for "Cursos de Português para Estrangeiros" in the local Parishes ("Juntas de Freguesia") or in the job centers ("IEFP"/Centro de Emprego") where they often advertise free courses

nevertheless the best to learn a foreign language is always to hear it all around you and practice it in day to day conversations with native Portuguese people, like in the local Cafe, Barber's, Grocery Store, Post Office, Gas Station, etc.; as well as reading newspapers, books and magazines in Portuguese

good luck!

regards

riv

Superb advice and links there from Vertigo ! ( The Forum could do with more Portuguese locals offering nitty gritty tips like this............ )

Robert1964

Thank you vertigobike,

It's why a like this site so much, people here are so helpful and friendly and have so much knowledge and advice to give.

I've been reading through your 'novel' and at the moment, I don't think there are any other questions I need to ask. Thank you so much for literally going through every point that I asked.

I know that I have a lot of planning and research to do but I no longer have the 'where do I start' feeling.

​​​​​​​Regards, Robert.