Pistolpete2

We have been victims of 'misunderstandings' a couple of times. In Santa Luzia near Tavira there are a number of good seafood restaurants - one of the best charges for fish and meat by the kilo (salmonete, red mullet - 60 euros a kilo) so best to have it weighed and priced ahead of time - but others, one can pick one's fish from a chill cabinet and receive one's price, actually rather - 'estimate'.

Then when the bill arrives there is a difference because "there was a mistake and the correct price is .....".

Equally there, don't ever stray from the exact choices in the full Prata do dia meal as you will get slammed, without being told ahead of time when you order. Not big deals, particularly when you know it's a restaurant that you would want to return to because the food is good, just a bit annoying. We laugh that they see us coming back "for another beating".

In general, we have found the prices/menus posted by restaurants outside or inside clearly visible in Portugal to be particularly helpful. As is the fact that almost everybody (we only know one restaurant exception) automatically gives you a clear and concise VAT invoice without asking, even in the Market, where again, prices are clearly posted.

We have found restaurants that cater almost entirely to locals and what is on offer is not printed and is limited for the day (a bit intimidating if not good with the 'lingo') - two meat (one beef one poultry), two fish, choice of three desserts. So it helps to see the posted standard generic menu to see what will be charged for what ahead of time rather than have to ask how much is this, how much is that when the waiter/ress arrives.

For me, since I am one of those who falls into the category of:
It's time to get out of the UK.... The quality of overall customer service and products in the delivery of particularly food and beverage in Portugal and the ability to reasonably communicate with the locals, where we want to spend time there, is a huge enticement to head there for a considerable time.

If we settle in Portugal it will be in the Tavira area, and I got the sense that there is a vibrant student and school population there, as well as good access to public healthcare. The Algarve is clearly a popular destination for British and other Europeans for settling and Tavira has a huge diversity of places of origin - for which incidentally English is typically used as the common language - but I'm just not sure what the lowest age groups are in terms of inwards migrants with school-age children and nor do I know whether the schools teach subjects in the English language other than witnessing Portuguese teenagers being proficient in English. In addition, like here in Weymouth, workers head elsewhere by car and train every day to head to work in Olhão and Faro or wherever.

The international school Colegio Internacional Tavira is in downtown Tavira and costs from 4,000 to 6,250 euros per annum - year 1 to year 13

EMR

Clearly many have no experience of being overcharged having looked at menus and official price lists in bars and restaurants popular with both locals tourists and expats.
There are tourist focussed bars who charge higher prices to everyone but that's down to the customer if they want to lay them or not..

spouse of scouse

We were on holiday in Porto a couple of months ago, and were amazed at the hospitality, friendliness and honesty of the locals (including in restaurant/cafe/bars). Can't wait to go back!

Pistolpete2

Funnily enough, on a recent visit we were given back too much money in cash, as change. When we brought it to the attention of the waiter, he almost fell over with gratitude. Not sure what that says about the honesty of customers.

weebobsgrampa

im sure a Portuguese holiday maker suffers the same fate in the UK in certain establishments, weve been to the algarve 3/4 times a year for the last 8 years or so and to be honest never suffered from overcharging and have always found staff very hospitable and friendly, we do have our favourite places and although not quite locals yet we do get treated as returning friends which may help

dmu

Interesting as all this experience in price differences and welcome to foreigners is, the OP hasn't logged in for some time.
@loveitta: if you come back to the forum and see this, think about moving elsewhere in the UK or to Ireland. There must be nice areas, otherwise all Brits would be emigrating and no one from the EU immigrating!
Unless you send your older children to an International School in any EU country, theyre going to encounter the same language/education problems, and you in your search to find a job with a high enough salary to pay the rent and raise them decently....

Pistolpete2

To cut a long story short, the UK has had the benefit of quite probably its two worst Prime Ministers EVER (ok! it could be Douglas-Hume or Eden) in quick succession and all the problems that we are currently facing and will continue to face, one way or another, seem to emanate from that. It is hard to see how one can escape from what ails us collectively by moving somewhere else in the UK.

Portugal is definitely on the overall list of GO TO places right now but if things go pear-shaped for the UK, Ireland is going to be one of the first places to suffer in the fall-out, one would think. I don't think that what we have now here is part of a grand strategy which will suddenly become blue sky.

There is no plan and never was one to even vote for. The power-brokers in the Tory Party want free movement (Tim Martin at Wetherspoons is a free movement advocate but kept his mouth well shut on that one) but would never have been as stupid as to say as much in the lead-up to the referendum as they knew they could count on immigration as a dog-whistle used by Leave.EU et al to get out the leave vote. Ironically, immigration numbers will simply not change but their nature might. Some arch-Brexiteers completely dismiss the British worker as bone-idle and would happily replace them with workers from the Indian sub-continent et al under some trade bargain.

The numbers might change a bit if British agriculture ceases to exist, as it could well do without subsidy and without easy access to markets. It's on its knees now.

For me, I have a vision that a move to Portugal would give me one of the best chances of living a reasonably peaceful life without having to worry about major political upheaval which would come back to bite me in the bum later. As I see it, Portugal is reasonably self-sustainable which is a huge plus. Of course I could be wrong.

The UK hasn't come up with a sustainable model which is one of the reasons why certain agitators in the leave crowd feel that we should leave the EU. For them, the sustainable model means slashing public services and benefits for workers, small government and low taxes. Only those who can afford to send their kids to Eton will thrive, so it's time to leave.

Oh! And I forgot that those MPs who are saying, hang on a minute, let's negotiate and not do anything stupid which would ultimately cause us to crash out of the EU with no deal, perceived as an economic catastrophe, are being hounded with death-threats and being branded as rebels by the media. Happy Days!

Moses2013

But speaking to Portuguese, they would feel the same about their own country. You can only make a living in Tavira, because you come from a wealthy country like the UK and have probably made enough cash.The reality for younger people growing up in Portugal, is that they complain about politics too, feel there are no well paid jobs, everything is expensive + so called wealthy foreigners like us are pushing house prices up. No doubt Portugal is a great country, but it's not great for all either. You mention Ireland: I moved here during the crisis and even back then my work colleague who is Portuguese asked me why people are complaining. He said if this is a crisis, I'm happy for this crisis to last. He's still here and some of his friends who went back to Portugal, plan to return. To be self-sustainable, you still need enough cash to do it.

Pistolpete2

Indeed the COL in Portugal is way lower than in the UK due to the standard of living and much lower wage levels and I'm in a convenient position where I'm retired so jobs are not an issue and I agree with your sentiments but the UK isn't working for most of the population such that very few have any meaningful cash to fall back on and actually can net contribute into the system. Middle management is a disappearing breed so there are pretty-much only the tops and the minimum wage, zero hours, part-time and gig workers left.

We made your comment about the Portuguese over dinner last evening. I would say that agriculture and tourism don't help the average worker's standard of living much. However, PT is moving into tech areas and high-skilled and well-educated Portuguese are being tempted to return now that things are improving while in the UK they are now tempted to leave, just like me in the 70s.

Johnboyuk

Regarding your comment about middle-tier jobs, since returning to the UK, I have noticed that this is a major issue. When we had the engineering and other factories, there were jobs at every level across the spectrum. There was even the semi-skilled category where people without a formal education could make good money. The government talk about all of the new jobs created but they are mostly service jobs.

However, there are pros and cons everywhere. I am all for seeking new opportunities and seeing the World but, for some people, getting the hell in with the UK and thinking that your life is going to miraculously improve by moving to another country is recipe for disaster. It should not be the motivation for moving.

chislenko

This person speaks sense.

Moses2013

I think that's a big problem across the whole of Europe. It's no different in Germany really and unless you are at the top level, wages are very poor. They have no solution for the pension crisis and while there might be more factory/engineering jobs, it's worth nothing if you can't make decent money. And then the government talks about the high quality of living, because trains are on time. Pistolpete2 mentioned PT is moving into tech areas and high-skilled. Everything is tech these days and only a fraction of those jobs would be classed as high skilled. If you look at a Technical Support Engineer with 3 languages, a cleaners salary would have gone further 30 years ago .

Johnboyuk

Yes, although they were part of the so-called working classes, I can never remember my parents talking about scrambling to save for their retirement. They generally knew that their state pensions and my father's company pension would allow them to live adequately during their retirement years. Not so these days.
The amount of private pension funds that have gone bankrupt in the UK is astonishing. Companies and governments have failed to ring-fence these funds. The first thing many of these companies do when they get into trouble, is raid the pension fund. Pension management fees have also been a contributing factor. As you say, this is not just a UK problem but a European problem or maybe wider than that. We should be able to do better.
Sorry, this is somewhat off-topic but I am just trying to illustrate that many of the problems facing the UK are not exclusive to the UK.

Moses2013

For a Portuguese person who worked in Portugal all their life, you could say that the State Pension was/is very generous and you can at least still live OK in your own country with that State Pension. With a UK State Pension, the previous generation could still manage OK in the UK, they had savings and you moved to Portugal because you wanted to. Now pensioners are basically forced to move abroad, but even Portugal is too expensive for many. I watched an interesting programme and although it was about German pensioners, I can see this happening in UK. A lot of Germans who worked all their lives, still didn't have enough to live a decent life in Germany, so looked abroad. Most ended up in Romania, Bulgaria, so they could at least still have some quality of life. They never wanted to leave Germany, but were forced and even preferred countries like Spain or Portugal were too expensive.

Johnboyuk

I suspect that many people on this forum who live in places such as Portugal, Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Italy, etc. may have a private income/pension. If so, their perception on life in these countries may be different to those who have to find a job and work.

I can understand that people are irritated with the rat-race in the UK. People spend 2 to 4 hours a day commuting and are worn out by the end of the week. Then, like myself, at the weekend, they have the lawns to cut, house to maintain, etc. They never get to see the castles, museums and what the country has to offer because they are too tired. I am watching friends of mine who are entrenched in this 'what's in it for me' attitude because of the system we are in. But, having worked abroad most of my life, I know that when I move, these issues go with me.

Of course, sometimes it is better to be warm and miserable than cold and miserable.

When people make comments like 'the last one to leave the UK, turn the lights out' (previous post), I wonder if they include the many Portuguese workers who are in the UK because they cannot find a job in their own country. Portugal is a net recipient of EU funds, the UK is a net contributor, for now.