EMR

We just closed off the archway that leads from the lounge to our stairs with a pair of neutral coloured black out curtains.
The difference they made was surprising.
We too only use the fire for heating, it is more than enough , but being a relatively new build has insulation in the walls .

Moses2013

But that's the point with the better infrared heaters. Compared to convection heating systems, infrared heaters heat the objects and not the air. This way, the room temperature seems warmer even if the thermostat is set 3 to 4 °C degrees lower than in convection heaters and still have a nice warm home. You could say the same with a wood burner. The wood price is €1, so basically the same. The difference is that the better wood burner might only need 2 logs to reach the temp, while the other might need 3. Of course better heat pumps (Daikin, Mitsubishi etc.) are very efficient, but it's a different type of heat.

RichardHenshall

So a room heated with infra-red heaters that has reached 15-16C (so the heaters have switched off) will be as comfortable as a room heated by a reverse cycle aircon unit that has reached its target 19C and switched off? Seems unlikely to me.

It will be like sitting outside in sunshine at 15C. Fine when the sun is out but cold when a cloud gets in the way.

Moses2013

We have both systems in house and it again depends on person, house, feel & how you use them. A lot of people have no idea how it works, so it makes sense to see for yourself and it might not suit every house. For example a decent infrared heater at a lower temp will heat the walls and the walls slowly release the heat. Reverse cycle aircon only really heats when on and unless the house is well insulated, it cools down very quickly.

It's also a complete different heat feel.

BillBullock

I installed night-storage heaters several years' ago which I only run on the cheap rate electricity. They keep the structure of the house at a comfortable temperature all day long and this suits a retired couple like us. I believe it is most important to keep the structure at a comfortable temperature and not let it cool down too much in the winter. Likewise, it is important to do everything you can to stop a house warming up too much in the long hot summer; it helps if you keep the windows closed so that the warm air cannot enter the house.

Our bathroom is the place where we need the heat most of all in winter and that's where we installed the first heater. Modern NS heaters are very controllable and I have not regretted the initial capital cost one bit. Our bottled gas central heating system was uninstalled years' ago as it was too expensive to run. A log-burner in the sitting room supplements the heating system on cold evenings but is a bit of a fag to keep running.

dinnerbell

We have them in the bedroom, office and living.

Produce very good dry background heat. We turn them down at night to about 15 degrees. They are controlled with thermostats and we have noticed that the heat is retained well over night even though we have a freestanding, uninsulated house, with no double glazing. We noticed that they stay off all night until the temperature drops at about 7am - unless it is freezing outside and then they go on and off through the night. We also turn them down when we go out. We never turn them off. We are warm and comfortable.

We are installing roof insulation for next winter and a wood burner with piped hot air to the other rooms. However we will keep the panels on the walls with a basic temperature of 15-16 degrees set to make sure that the house never cools down.

We find the electricity cost reasonable. Next year we think that the cost will reduce considerably due to the insulation and woodburner. (Of course we will have to buy wood which we don't now).

Ours are from Trotec - very reasonable cost and delivery no problem. They are white, not fancy but also not obtrusive, and do a great job. You can wall mount as we have done, or put them on feet. Don't think that they can be hung from the ceiling. You can get very nicely designed panels from other companies but they are serious money.

Something to think about is your electricity supply. Depending on how you are supplied and wired you may find that you need to switch one off to use a hairdryer or similar. But that isn't a big deal and typical in Portugal.

Hope that helps, feel free to contact for more info.

Cherrypop

Thanks for this. I'd actually heard of these before I moved here but had completely forgotten about them. Great because I believe they're made in Portugal so no problems getting hold of them.

Cherrypop

This is something I'm going to look into shortly. What is the norm for methods of insulation here? With no hatch into the shallow roof space I have no clue what could be done there. Looking at the wall construction of the new builds round the corner doesn't lead me to think cavity wall insulation is an option.

MrBife

Without seeing your specific house construction it's hard to know how to best insulate the roof but probably you will find that its easier to go in to the void from the top by taking off a few tiles. Portuguese builders don't waste their money on insulation !

Walls can be done with a system called 'Capoto' which is an external layer of polystyrene that is then rendered over. Cost is around €35 a square metre which includes finishing so it saves having to do an external re paint.

Obvious other candidates for heat loss are windows if not already reasonably draft free and double glazed,

BlackBeardie

I agree with the 1 Watt of electrical energy being converted to an equivalent of 1 watt of heat energy. So doubtfully cheaper than burning wood. Where the efficiency comes in, I am guessing here / is in the method of transfer from the heater to you, the person. With these Infrared heating panels you do not have to wait for the the surrounding air to be heated before you feel warm. We all know hot air goes up and escapes causing heat loss in a room. Also more efficient as no fan (which consumes additional electrical energy) is needed to circulate the heat. On the downside I expect it becomes chilly very quickly once you switch the Infrared heating panel off.

captainflack

I would agree with Richard and Liveaboard. Heat pumps (aircon) are most efficient because you get more heat out than the energy you put in, 3-4 times as much.

We had mitsubishi units put in to most rooms when we moved in. They're really quiet, the heads on the wall are small and nice looking, and they deliver nice warm air after a couple of minutes. We got four installed for a total of about 3k, from Leroy Merlin. Bonus is we can cool in summer, though we really don't use aircon much. But it is nice to have on overnight, so we can close the shutters, because there is nowhere in portugal where you cannot hear a dog barking all night, even if you're lucky enough it's not right next door.

However, even where we are in Setubal (south of Lisbon), they're not enough to really heat the house especially when the temperature drops to 5 degrees or less. Their efficiency drops off, and they have to go into defrost mode for periods (because the coil outside needs to be colder than the surrounding air for the thing to get heat from outside, and if the air temp is cool, that means it starts to freeze up and get ice buildup).

So you do need another source of heat. Electric is an option, but is expensive. We have gas central heating, we replaced our boiler just before xmas, and it's great now. We have radiators throughout the house, and it's warm. Gas is about half the price of electricity per KJ, so cheaper than electric heaters.

But once the temp goes up a bit, we turn it off and rely on the aircons, because it's cheaper.

But look into insulation too. Portuguese houses often have very poor insulation, and good insulation will save a lot of money, and avoid condensation problems too.

BillBullock

Are you on mains gas? We live in the countryside and mains gas is not an option. I'm pretty sure bottled gas does not work out cheaper than electricity.