How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
Mar 6th 2019, 10:40 am
#17
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 24
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
Hi,
I am new to this forum and we hope to buy a home in Portugal this year. We have been contemplating retirement to Portugal for the last 5 years, planning ahead. Then Brexit wobbled our aspiration. However we are still wanting to stick to our long held plan now.We have been on two property trips in the last couple of years around the Silver coast area and Castelo Branco. We were shown many properties by estate agents. Some needed extensive renovation and some just needed TLC. We found that we were shown random properties that were not based on our initial inquiry.
One very friendly agent who spoke perfect English said he could handle all of the legal stuff for us so we could save money. He explained that he was a qualified lawyer and a law graduate of Lisbon University. He also said his agency would help us with getting all of the utilities connected, deal with the local camera municipal, the tax office etc.
We have not bought anywhere yet but these previous trips have been a good education for us.
There is always the option to buy directly from the vendor. We regularly view properties on a well known website that advertises property for private and estate agent vendors. I won't mention the name of the site in case I step offside, but I am sure most of the members on here know which one I am referring to in the purest sense.
I must say that we fine this option quite tempting. I imagine that the way it works is that the private vendors pay the website to advertise their property and then any sale is free of commission. Am I correct, does anybody know? I also guess that any negotiation is carried out between buyer and vendor directly or through lawyers.
I also imagine that if we made a serious inquiry with the vendor they would send us any details including additional images if we requested it, along with location information - public transport links, shops, bars, and local amenities. We have not tried this avenue yet but there are some properties on there which we have favourited and we will be making inquiries once we have sold a property here in the UK and become cash buyers.
Does anyone have experience of this route to buying in PT?
Obrigardo
I am new to this forum and we hope to buy a home in Portugal this year. We have been contemplating retirement to Portugal for the last 5 years, planning ahead. Then Brexit wobbled our aspiration. However we are still wanting to stick to our long held plan now.We have been on two property trips in the last couple of years around the Silver coast area and Castelo Branco. We were shown many properties by estate agents. Some needed extensive renovation and some just needed TLC. We found that we were shown random properties that were not based on our initial inquiry.
One very friendly agent who spoke perfect English said he could handle all of the legal stuff for us so we could save money. He explained that he was a qualified lawyer and a law graduate of Lisbon University. He also said his agency would help us with getting all of the utilities connected, deal with the local camera municipal, the tax office etc.
We have not bought anywhere yet but these previous trips have been a good education for us.
There is always the option to buy directly from the vendor. We regularly view properties on a well known website that advertises property for private and estate agent vendors. I won't mention the name of the site in case I step offside, but I am sure most of the members on here know which one I am referring to in the purest sense.
I must say that we fine this option quite tempting. I imagine that the way it works is that the private vendors pay the website to advertise their property and then any sale is free of commission. Am I correct, does anybody know? I also guess that any negotiation is carried out between buyer and vendor directly or through lawyers.
I also imagine that if we made a serious inquiry with the vendor they would send us any details including additional images if we requested it, along with location information - public transport links, shops, bars, and local amenities. We have not tried this avenue yet but there are some properties on there which we have favourited and we will be making inquiries once we have sold a property here in the UK and become cash buyers.
Does anyone have experience of this route to buying in PT?
Obrigardo
Mar 7th 2019, 10:51 am
#18
Living the Dream
Joined: Apr 2018
Location: Western Algarve
Posts: 75
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
Bom Dia!
I am working with a real estate agent in advance of a house hunting visit next month. I am trying to eliminate properties we know we are not interested in by looking at them on line. In North America we can do that right in the Real Estate Portal - we see the exact location of the house and every house for sale is listed. Of course I will see pictures, but I will also be able to see if the house is next to a factory or on a cliff without actually traveling there.
I am trying to do the same thing for Portugal and what I have found over the months is that while there are a coupe of real estate portals, they are A) Buggy and unusable (Hello Meravista) or B) do not contain all listings.
So, I've asked the agent to send me the locations of the houses so we could look in Google Earth She tells me that is against the law in portugal - she can't tell me where the house is until she takes us there. True, or is she just being protective and "guarding" her listings from other agents?
Also, do agents in Portugal have access to all listings or only their own? We seem to be focused on the listings her company has. Should I be casting a wider net and contacting more agents? My experience here is one agent can do it all. Might be different there....
Obrigado!
I am working with a real estate agent in advance of a house hunting visit next month. I am trying to eliminate properties we know we are not interested in by looking at them on line. In North America we can do that right in the Real Estate Portal - we see the exact location of the house and every house for sale is listed. Of course I will see pictures, but I will also be able to see if the house is next to a factory or on a cliff without actually traveling there.
I am trying to do the same thing for Portugal and what I have found over the months is that while there are a coupe of real estate portals, they are A) Buggy and unusable (Hello Meravista) or B) do not contain all listings.
So, I've asked the agent to send me the locations of the houses so we could look in Google Earth She tells me that is against the law in portugal - she can't tell me where the house is until she takes us there. True, or is she just being protective and "guarding" her listings from other agents?
Also, do agents in Portugal have access to all listings or only their own? We seem to be focused on the listings her company has. Should I be casting a wider net and contacting more agents? My experience here is one agent can do it all. Might be different there....
Obrigado!
We spent hours and hours over several weeks on Agents websites to try and narrow down the properties we were interested in. We eventually came up with a shortlist of properties and arranged to visit over a period of a week making arrangements to see the agents every other day, in this way, the day off in between gave us the opportunity to revisit the area at different times and to see what the neighbourhood looked like when approaching it from different directions. We also asked beforehand if they had any other properties that were not on their websites and as it turned out we ended we looking at a couple of properties they had access to but the did not directly have the listing for; it was one of these we eventually bought.
In summary expect to do a lot of the work yourself and be prepared to be disappointed with the amount of effort (a lot of it misdirected) not put in by the agent for their 5% fee.
Mar 8th 2019, 7:21 am
#19
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 67
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
One very friendly agent who spoke perfect English said he could handle all of the legal stuff for us so we could save money. He explained that he was a qualified lawyer and a law graduate of Lisbon University. He also said his agency would help us with getting all of the utilities connected, deal with the local camera municipal, the tax office etc.
Advice from some random weirdo on the internet should be balanced with your gut feeling about the agent/lawyer/property manager, but I'd tread carefully - it sounds like a complete conflict of interest.
Mar 8th 2019, 7:48 am
#20
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
Bom Dia!
I am working with a real estate agent in advance of a house hunting visit next month. I am trying to eliminate properties we know we are not interested in by looking at them on line. In North America we can do that right in the Real Estate Portal - we see the exact location of the house and every house for sale is listed. Of course I will see pictures, but I will also be able to see if the house is next to a factory or on a cliff without actually traveling there.
I am trying to do the same thing for Portugal and what I have found over the months is that while there are a coupe of real estate portals, they are A) Buggy and unusable (Hello Meravista) or B) do not contain all listings.
So, I've asked the agent to send me the locations of the houses so we could look in Google Earth She tells me that is against the law in portugal - she can't tell me where the house is until she takes us there. True, or is she just being protective and "guarding" her listings from other agents?
Also, do agents in Portugal have access to all listings or only their own? We seem to be focused on the listings her company has. Should I be casting a wider net and contacting more agents? My experience here is one agent can do it all. Might be different there....
Obrigado!
I am working with a real estate agent in advance of a house hunting visit next month. I am trying to eliminate properties we know we are not interested in by looking at them on line. In North America we can do that right in the Real Estate Portal - we see the exact location of the house and every house for sale is listed. Of course I will see pictures, but I will also be able to see if the house is next to a factory or on a cliff without actually traveling there.
I am trying to do the same thing for Portugal and what I have found over the months is that while there are a coupe of real estate portals, they are A) Buggy and unusable (Hello Meravista) or B) do not contain all listings.
So, I've asked the agent to send me the locations of the houses so we could look in Google Earth She tells me that is against the law in portugal - she can't tell me where the house is until she takes us there. True, or is she just being protective and "guarding" her listings from other agents?
Also, do agents in Portugal have access to all listings or only their own? We seem to be focused on the listings her company has. Should I be casting a wider net and contacting more agents? My experience here is one agent can do it all. Might be different there....
Obrigado!
Mar 8th 2019, 8:09 am
#21
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 24
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
Hi Andy,
Yes we saw him coming and smiled. We said how kind the offer was. Of course we shall use an independent lawyer when we are ready to buy. I was just relaying our experience.
That is why I was also asking if anyone had experience of buying direct from a vendor. No agents involved just buyer, seller and lawyers.
Yes we saw him coming and smiled. We said how kind the offer was. Of course we shall use an independent lawyer when we are ready to buy. I was just relaying our experience.
That is why I was also asking if anyone had experience of buying direct from a vendor. No agents involved just buyer, seller and lawyers.
Mar 8th 2019, 8:35 am
#22
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
I just texted the seller and made offer and the 2nd offer he accepted. I wasn't present signing the documents and used notary public to verify are passports and the lawyer did everything else. Most people only really use an estate agent, because they don't have the time to do viewings or take phone calls. Even in the UK many sell without an agent these days.
Mar 8th 2019, 9:22 am
#23
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,032
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
The problem with direct buy is that they're even more likely to have title problems than agency buys.
Sellers who don't have everything ok often believe they can get one over on you by selling direct.
So you look, you check, you pay legal fees, and are disappointed. Time and money wasted, but more important is the emotional cost.
I find this rarely mentioned, but it's almost imposable not to get emotionally involved in a place. 'home' is all about how you feel, and as you view a property you have to let yourself feel it.
Then you learn that the seller doesn't have full rights or whatever, and it's like a breakup with a partner. Well, a little bit anyway.
That's why we pretty much gave up on private sales.
Our property was offered by a small independent agent up an alley in a distant town. It took a huge amount of search to find.
I probably spent 100 hours online, going through 50-100 google pages on each search term, marking possibilities, writing down towns, words in Portuguese, and so on.
When we arrived, 4 out of my 5 prospects were no longer available. We bought the 5th.
We were very particular about what we wanted; but isn't everyone?
Sellers who don't have everything ok often believe they can get one over on you by selling direct.
So you look, you check, you pay legal fees, and are disappointed. Time and money wasted, but more important is the emotional cost.
I find this rarely mentioned, but it's almost imposable not to get emotionally involved in a place. 'home' is all about how you feel, and as you view a property you have to let yourself feel it.
Then you learn that the seller doesn't have full rights or whatever, and it's like a breakup with a partner. Well, a little bit anyway.
That's why we pretty much gave up on private sales.
Our property was offered by a small independent agent up an alley in a distant town. It took a huge amount of search to find.
I probably spent 100 hours online, going through 50-100 google pages on each search term, marking possibilities, writing down towns, words in Portuguese, and so on.
When we arrived, 4 out of my 5 prospects were no longer available. We bought the 5th.
We were very particular about what we wanted; but isn't everyone?
Mar 8th 2019, 9:58 am
#24
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
The problem with direct buy is that they're even more likely to have title problems than agency buys.
Sellers who don't have everything ok often believe they can get one over on you by selling direct.
So you look, you check, you pay legal fees, and are disappointed. Time and money wasted, but more important is the emotional cost.
I find this rarely mentioned, but it's almost imposable not to get emotionally involved in a place. 'home' is all about how you feel, and as you view a property you have to let yourself feel it.
Then you learn that the seller doesn't have full rights or whatever, and it's like a breakup with a partner. Well, a little bit anyway.
That's why we pretty much gave up on private sales.
Our property was offered by a small independent agent up an alley in a distant town. It took a huge amount of search to find.
I probably spent 100 hours online, going through 50-100 google pages on each search term, marking possibilities, writing down towns, words in Portuguese, and so on.
When we arrived, 4 out of my 5 prospects were no longer available. We bought the 5th.
We were very particular about what we wanted; but isn't everyone?
Sellers who don't have everything ok often believe they can get one over on you by selling direct.
So you look, you check, you pay legal fees, and are disappointed. Time and money wasted, but more important is the emotional cost.
I find this rarely mentioned, but it's almost imposable not to get emotionally involved in a place. 'home' is all about how you feel, and as you view a property you have to let yourself feel it.
Then you learn that the seller doesn't have full rights or whatever, and it's like a breakup with a partner. Well, a little bit anyway.
That's why we pretty much gave up on private sales.
Our property was offered by a small independent agent up an alley in a distant town. It took a huge amount of search to find.
I probably spent 100 hours online, going through 50-100 google pages on each search term, marking possibilities, writing down towns, words in Portuguese, and so on.
When we arrived, 4 out of my 5 prospects were no longer available. We bought the 5th.
We were very particular about what we wanted; but isn't everyone?
Apr 20th 2019, 1:15 pm
#25
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 19
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
HI everyone,
Just back from our house hunting trip and a quick update on our experience.
We had engaged 5 or 6 agents by email, and narrowed that down to two who would provide exact locations of properties.
We had one property in particular we liked and when we arrived we drove by. We really liked it. However, when we met the agent in person the next day, she told us it had just been put under offer and conditionally sold. Disappointing, but OK. So, we spent the day looking at what she had to offer from her portfolio.
In the meantime, we had spotted another property with a for sale sign of a different real estate company very similar to and close to the first property that we had liked. We asked the agent we were with at the time to call, but he didn't seem too enthusiastic. After three days of no response I called the listing agent myself and arranged a viewing. Turns out we liked the property and after a couple visits we negotiated and reached a deal with the seller. Next step: to the lawyer.
We showed up at the appointed time at our lawyer to sign the documents. The seller's agent was there, which I found odd - until he started to talk. Turns out the seller had had a change of heart and she now wanted more money. We walked away. The seller thought the house had sold too quickly, and she had therefore underpriced. The selling agent was apologetic and I think genuine. The lawyer told me that this sort of thing does occasionally happen, but not often.
In any event, we came home with no purchase, but the trip did reaffirm that where we are looking is the right place for us. We'll get there.
Also, on the bright side, we now have a Fiscal Number and all the paperwork done so we can move quickly next time. We are planning our next trip back for September. We will go back with one of the agents we were with this trip. She was good. However, we will also play the field a bit more and try to engage a few more.
Just back from our house hunting trip and a quick update on our experience.
We had engaged 5 or 6 agents by email, and narrowed that down to two who would provide exact locations of properties.
We had one property in particular we liked and when we arrived we drove by. We really liked it. However, when we met the agent in person the next day, she told us it had just been put under offer and conditionally sold. Disappointing, but OK. So, we spent the day looking at what she had to offer from her portfolio.
In the meantime, we had spotted another property with a for sale sign of a different real estate company very similar to and close to the first property that we had liked. We asked the agent we were with at the time to call, but he didn't seem too enthusiastic. After three days of no response I called the listing agent myself and arranged a viewing. Turns out we liked the property and after a couple visits we negotiated and reached a deal with the seller. Next step: to the lawyer.
We showed up at the appointed time at our lawyer to sign the documents. The seller's agent was there, which I found odd - until he started to talk. Turns out the seller had had a change of heart and she now wanted more money. We walked away. The seller thought the house had sold too quickly, and she had therefore underpriced. The selling agent was apologetic and I think genuine. The lawyer told me that this sort of thing does occasionally happen, but not often.
In any event, we came home with no purchase, but the trip did reaffirm that where we are looking is the right place for us. We'll get there.
Also, on the bright side, we now have a Fiscal Number and all the paperwork done so we can move quickly next time. We are planning our next trip back for September. We will go back with one of the agents we were with this trip. She was good. However, we will also play the field a bit more and try to engage a few more.
Apr 21st 2019, 10:23 am
#26
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 207
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
We completed our our house purchase north of Lisbon last August after a 9 month search after selling our house in the Algarve,.
These are my observations. (I should point out that both my wife and I read, speak & write Portuguese pretty fluently)
1) There are no exams or certifications required to be a real estate agent under Portuguese Law.
2) There is no law to my (extensive) knowledge preventing real estate agents from disclosing locations to properties. As I was told by one of the few agents I came to respect, agents do not want disclose locations, primarily for commercial secrecy purposes. However, with knowledge of the, Google Maps and site visits, it is not impossible to often locate the properties.
3) We saw +-90 properties during our search. Most listings were misleading. In one case, once I'd finally got hold of the caderneta predial, it turned out the registered legal plot size was totally different from the actual plot size AND there was an access track running alongside the property to the house behind BUT was part of the property & we would have been responsible for even there was no access to it. The agent said "Well, that's how we used to do things here in Portugal". After tearing him of a strip about various recent changes in Portuguese Law on this matter, he never heard from us again.
4) In my extensive experience, practically none of the agents we had contact with had any demonstrable knowledge of the structures of properties. The number of properties we found online that looked good in the photos and then turned out to be full of damp, have other structural problems etc., was immense.
We were taken to see houses that with 90 seconds of arriving we could see were full of such problems. We walked away. Many agents often didn't know where the properties were located on arriving in the area. In one case, I had pull out a Portuguese Army 1:25000 map of the area & guide the agent to the village in question.
5) Documents - whenever we we even the least bit interested in a property, I always asked the agent by email for the following four documents related to the legal status of the property -
a) Planta arquitetural
b) Caderneta predial
c) Certidão permanente
d) Certidão Enérgetica
More often than not, the agents were not able to provided the documents immediately, and then ensued a protracted exchange of emails, complete with excuses like, the dog ate it, to get these, which often were very illuminating on the history of the property in question.
6) As we were estrangeiros, most agents just saw € signs when we first made contact. Once they realised our language capacities and knowledge of the Portuguese real estate market they rapidly became disabused and defensive. We left not a few shaking and seeking counselling.
7) Generally the agents themselves were unable to provide us with any suitable properties on first contact. They refused to listen to or read our specs which we presented in writing. Consequently we spent tens of hours searching the main portuguese language portals, contacting the agent and then asking to view the property.
Amongst other we used email filter searches on the following portals to find possible properties :
- https://www.olx.pt/imoveis/
-
https://www.imovirtual.com
-
https://www.idealista.pt
-
https://casa.sapo.pt
-
https://bpiexpressoimobiliario.pt
In the end, it was on the way back from viewing a property that needed to be bulldozed, that we found the property we bought. Howver, this was a fight to negotiate the sale, principally because the agent would not do as she was asked. At one point, she lost it on the phone with my wife over some issue. I had to take the phone and tell her never ever again to talk to my wife like that. After that we brought in a solicitor to verify, by email, our alterations to the Contrato de Promessa and Éscritura and to handle the notaristion of the same.
I have never trusted ANY real estate agent in any country. They just want to baffle you by science and sell you their own grandmother, given half a chance.
I should point out that many Portuguese buyers have similar frustrations.
If you find a property, do very detailed due diligence and make sure you have a very good Solicitor or Advogado to back you up.
Hope this helps
These are my observations. (I should point out that both my wife and I read, speak & write Portuguese pretty fluently)
1) There are no exams or certifications required to be a real estate agent under Portuguese Law.
2) There is no law to my (extensive) knowledge preventing real estate agents from disclosing locations to properties. As I was told by one of the few agents I came to respect, agents do not want disclose locations, primarily for commercial secrecy purposes. However, with knowledge of the, Google Maps and site visits, it is not impossible to often locate the properties.
3) We saw +-90 properties during our search. Most listings were misleading. In one case, once I'd finally got hold of the caderneta predial, it turned out the registered legal plot size was totally different from the actual plot size AND there was an access track running alongside the property to the house behind BUT was part of the property & we would have been responsible for even there was no access to it. The agent said "Well, that's how we used to do things here in Portugal". After tearing him of a strip about various recent changes in Portuguese Law on this matter, he never heard from us again.
4) In my extensive experience, practically none of the agents we had contact with had any demonstrable knowledge of the structures of properties. The number of properties we found online that looked good in the photos and then turned out to be full of damp, have other structural problems etc., was immense.
We were taken to see houses that with 90 seconds of arriving we could see were full of such problems. We walked away. Many agents often didn't know where the properties were located on arriving in the area. In one case, I had pull out a Portuguese Army 1:25000 map of the area & guide the agent to the village in question.
5) Documents - whenever we we even the least bit interested in a property, I always asked the agent by email for the following four documents related to the legal status of the property -
a) Planta arquitetural
b) Caderneta predial
c) Certidão permanente
d) Certidão Enérgetica
More often than not, the agents were not able to provided the documents immediately, and then ensued a protracted exchange of emails, complete with excuses like, the dog ate it, to get these, which often were very illuminating on the history of the property in question.
6) As we were estrangeiros, most agents just saw € signs when we first made contact. Once they realised our language capacities and knowledge of the Portuguese real estate market they rapidly became disabused and defensive. We left not a few shaking and seeking counselling.
7) Generally the agents themselves were unable to provide us with any suitable properties on first contact. They refused to listen to or read our specs which we presented in writing. Consequently we spent tens of hours searching the main portuguese language portals, contacting the agent and then asking to view the property.
Amongst other we used email filter searches on the following portals to find possible properties :
- https://www.olx.pt/imoveis/
-
https://www.imovirtual.com
-
https://www.idealista.pt
-
https://casa.sapo.pt
-
https://bpiexpressoimobiliario.pt
In the end, it was on the way back from viewing a property that needed to be bulldozed, that we found the property we bought. Howver, this was a fight to negotiate the sale, principally because the agent would not do as she was asked. At one point, she lost it on the phone with my wife over some issue. I had to take the phone and tell her never ever again to talk to my wife like that. After that we brought in a solicitor to verify, by email, our alterations to the Contrato de Promessa and Éscritura and to handle the notaristion of the same.
I have never trusted ANY real estate agent in any country. They just want to baffle you by science and sell you their own grandmother, given half a chance.
I should point out that many Portuguese buyers have similar frustrations.
If you find a property, do very detailed due diligence and make sure you have a very good Solicitor or Advogado to back you up.
Hope this helps
For those looking in Central Portugal, I know someone who bought from these people and found them good to deal with which you could add to your list:
http://www.chavetejo.com/
Also, Kyero, although mainly Spanish, is comprehensive and covers Portugal as well as Spain if you type 'Portugal' into the search field:
https://www.kyero.com/
Last edited by Johnboyuk; Apr 21st 2019 at 10:33 am. Reason: Addition
Apr 21st 2019, 1:43 pm
#27
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Bocas del Toro
Posts: 700
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
We completed our our house purchase north of Lisbon last August after a 9 month search after selling our house in the Algarve,.
These are my observations. (I should point out that both my wife and I read, speak & write Portuguese pretty fluently)
1) There are no exams or certifications required to be a real estate agent under Portuguese Law.
2) There is no law to my (extensive) knowledge preventing real estate agents from disclosing locations to properties. As I was told by one of the few agents I came to respect, agents do not want disclose locations, primarily for commercial secrecy purposes. However, with knowledge of the, Google Maps and site visits, it is not impossible to often locate the properties.
3) We saw +-90 properties during our search. Most listings were misleading. In one case, once I'd finally got hold of the caderneta predial, it turned out the registered legal plot size was totally different from the actual plot size AND there was an access track running alongside the property to the house behind BUT was part of the property & we would have been responsible for even there was no access to it. The agent said "Well, that's how we used to do things here in Portugal". After tearing him of a strip about various recent changes in Portuguese Law on this matter, he never heard from us again.
4) In my extensive experience, practically none of the agents we had contact with had any demonstrable knowledge of the structures of properties. The number of properties we found online that looked good in the photos and then turned out to be full of damp, have other structural problems etc., was immense.
We were taken to see houses that with 90 seconds of arriving we could see were full of such problems. We walked away. Many agents often didn't know where the properties were located on arriving in the area. In one case, I had pull out a Portuguese Army 1:25000 map of the area & guide the agent to the village in question.
5) Documents - whenever we we even the least bit interested in a property, I always asked the agent by email for the following four documents related to the legal status of the property -
a) Planta arquitetural
b) Caderneta predial
c) Certidão permanente
d) Certidão Enérgetica
More often than not, the agents were not able to provided the documents immediately, and then ensued a protracted exchange of emails, complete with excuses like, the dog ate it, to get these, which often were very illuminating on the history of the property in question.
6) As we were estrangeiros, most agents just saw € signs when we first made contact. Once they realised our language capacities and knowledge of the Portuguese real estate market they rapidly became disabused and defensive. We left not a few shaking and seeking counselling.
7) Generally the agents themselves were unable to provide us with any suitable properties on first contact. They refused to listen to or read our specs which we presented in writing. Consequently we spent tens of hours searching the main portuguese language portals, contacting the agent and then asking to view the property.
Amongst other we used email filter searches on the following portals to find possible properties :
- https://www.olx.pt/imoveis/
-
https://www.imovirtual.com
-
https://www.idealista.pt
-
https://casa.sapo.pt
-
https://bpiexpressoimobiliario.pt
In the end, it was on the way back from viewing a property that needed to be bulldozed, that we found the property we bought. Howver, this was a fight to negotiate the sale, principally because the agent would not do as she was asked. At one point, she lost it on the phone with my wife over some issue. I had to take the phone and tell her never ever again to talk to my wife like that. After that we brought in a solicitor to verify, by email, our alterations to the Contrato de Promessa and Éscritura and to handle the notaristion of the same.
I have never trusted ANY real estate agent in any country. They just want to baffle you by science and sell you their own grandmother, given half a chance.
I should point out that many Portuguese buyers have similar frustrations.
If you find a property, do very detailed due diligence and make sure you have a very good Solicitor or Advogado to back you up.
Hope this helps
These are my observations. (I should point out that both my wife and I read, speak & write Portuguese pretty fluently)
1) There are no exams or certifications required to be a real estate agent under Portuguese Law.
2) There is no law to my (extensive) knowledge preventing real estate agents from disclosing locations to properties. As I was told by one of the few agents I came to respect, agents do not want disclose locations, primarily for commercial secrecy purposes. However, with knowledge of the, Google Maps and site visits, it is not impossible to often locate the properties.
3) We saw +-90 properties during our search. Most listings were misleading. In one case, once I'd finally got hold of the caderneta predial, it turned out the registered legal plot size was totally different from the actual plot size AND there was an access track running alongside the property to the house behind BUT was part of the property & we would have been responsible for even there was no access to it. The agent said "Well, that's how we used to do things here in Portugal". After tearing him of a strip about various recent changes in Portuguese Law on this matter, he never heard from us again.
4) In my extensive experience, practically none of the agents we had contact with had any demonstrable knowledge of the structures of properties. The number of properties we found online that looked good in the photos and then turned out to be full of damp, have other structural problems etc., was immense.
We were taken to see houses that with 90 seconds of arriving we could see were full of such problems. We walked away. Many agents often didn't know where the properties were located on arriving in the area. In one case, I had pull out a Portuguese Army 1:25000 map of the area & guide the agent to the village in question.
5) Documents - whenever we we even the least bit interested in a property, I always asked the agent by email for the following four documents related to the legal status of the property -
a) Planta arquitetural
b) Caderneta predial
c) Certidão permanente
d) Certidão Enérgetica
More often than not, the agents were not able to provided the documents immediately, and then ensued a protracted exchange of emails, complete with excuses like, the dog ate it, to get these, which often were very illuminating on the history of the property in question.
6) As we were estrangeiros, most agents just saw € signs when we first made contact. Once they realised our language capacities and knowledge of the Portuguese real estate market they rapidly became disabused and defensive. We left not a few shaking and seeking counselling.
7) Generally the agents themselves were unable to provide us with any suitable properties on first contact. They refused to listen to or read our specs which we presented in writing. Consequently we spent tens of hours searching the main portuguese language portals, contacting the agent and then asking to view the property.
Amongst other we used email filter searches on the following portals to find possible properties :
- https://www.olx.pt/imoveis/
-
https://www.imovirtual.com
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https://www.idealista.pt
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https://casa.sapo.pt
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https://bpiexpressoimobiliario.pt
In the end, it was on the way back from viewing a property that needed to be bulldozed, that we found the property we bought. Howver, this was a fight to negotiate the sale, principally because the agent would not do as she was asked. At one point, she lost it on the phone with my wife over some issue. I had to take the phone and tell her never ever again to talk to my wife like that. After that we brought in a solicitor to verify, by email, our alterations to the Contrato de Promessa and Éscritura and to handle the notaristion of the same.
I have never trusted ANY real estate agent in any country. They just want to baffle you by science and sell you their own grandmother, given half a chance.
I should point out that many Portuguese buyers have similar frustrations.
If you find a property, do very detailed due diligence and make sure you have a very good Solicitor or Advogado to back you up.
Hope this helps
If every person new to the PT property market is not saving this as their bible, they need their heads checking. Amazing info, very detailed and a call to remove any rose tinted glasses!
Apr 21st 2019, 2:45 pm
#28
Resident Cynic
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 14,969
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
There is one other thing to look out for - you must ensure the "seller" is actually free to sell. This may sound daft, but I got quite a way down a purchase some years back, buying form the owner, a middle-aged professional - and I had documents supplied by ERA. To cut a long story short, after a few months and a few trips to see/discuss the property, the sale fell through because...... he was divorced and had a son who lived with the mother. As, under Portuguese law, the son was his heir, he needed authorization to sell..... and I'm sure you know where this is going. Seven years later, I passed through the town and the property is still there and rapidly becoming derelict.
Another situation was in Marvao, a beautiful town, where a semi-ruin was for sale at a ridiculous price. Negotiation was pointless because there were a dozen heirs with interest in the property..... and they all want to be rich.
Another situation was in Marvao, a beautiful town, where a semi-ruin was for sale at a ridiculous price. Negotiation was pointless because there were a dozen heirs with interest in the property..... and they all want to be rich.
Apr 22nd 2019, 8:09 am
#29
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 24
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
Bom Dia,
Could someone on this thread please explain what it means when a property is listed as not have a licence and that it would be the buyers responsibility to obtain a licence? Can properties lose the licence? I am looking at properties that have been lived in and are 5,10 or over 20 years old but are listed as not having a licence. Some are also listed as bank properties and has if some of the fittings have been removed. I know this happens in the UK when a property is re-possessed sometimes by the dis possessed owners.
Could someone on this thread please explain what it means when a property is listed as not have a licence and that it would be the buyers responsibility to obtain a licence? Can properties lose the licence? I am looking at properties that have been lived in and are 5,10 or over 20 years old but are listed as not having a licence. Some are also listed as bank properties and has if some of the fittings have been removed. I know this happens in the UK when a property is re-possessed sometimes by the dis possessed owners.
Apr 22nd 2019, 8:33 am
#30
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 569
Re: How do real estate agents work in Portugal?
make sure everything you want to stay in the property is mentioned in the promissory contract , if its not specified to stay there's a good chance things you may think are obligatory to remain with the property will be removed by the seller.
