Forest Fires
Jun 21st 2017, 1:23 am
#61
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Re: Forest Fires
Steve - I know that in the overall scheme of things property is incomparably less important than lives. I am, though, heartened to see that the Jeep escaped the fire.
Jun 21st 2017, 8:54 am
#62
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Re: Forest Fires
No signs of any wreckage of a plane. It is thought to have been a farm storage tank that exploded
The fire is now spreading to Gois 27 villages have been evacuated. Almost two and a half thousand fire fighters out there .20 planes. 4 divisions of the army. It is truly mega. reminding us of the California fires of recent yrs.
The fire is now spreading to Gois 27 villages have been evacuated. Almost two and a half thousand fire fighters out there .20 planes. 4 divisions of the army. It is truly mega. reminding us of the California fires of recent yrs.
Jun 21st 2017, 10:02 am
#63
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Re: Forest Fires
Certainly in my area that's full of pine and eucalyptus, most of the trees are owned by many individuals, half a hector here or there and so on. Clearing the land by yourself is one thing but having to pay for it is extremely expensive, many cases will be OAP's with a couple hundred euros a month and they can barely eat never mind pay 1000€ to have half a hector cleared every year. Perhaps there should be help some way or another in that respect.
These people for all intents & purposes are in business ! & with a business you also have responsibilities ,no matter how much or how little they have !
In today's press there all full pages off photos off those who where killed by this fire, the most heart-breaking are those off the little tot's.
https://www.vercapas.com/capa/correio-da-manha.html
Last edited by Ingles; Jun 21st 2017 at 10:08 am. Reason: added link
Jun 21st 2017, 10:11 am
#64
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Re: Forest Fires
Hi All
Well I am surprised at a comment of 20 planes in Gois. My house is the other side of the hill from the fire and with the noise of the planes if there had been 20 I would have heard it. I heard only a couple of planes and helicopters.
At about 6.30pm the GNR came to my village and did not leave till we where all spoken to. They said the position of the fire and the fact it was not coming in our direction we still had to move. The reason the GNR gave was because of the effect of the smoke.
For now every village around Gois has been evacuated and we are all safe. But have we been evacuated because of the other fires or because the local GNR are doing what is right who knows and who cares we are safe.
Peter
Well I am surprised at a comment of 20 planes in Gois. My house is the other side of the hill from the fire and with the noise of the planes if there had been 20 I would have heard it. I heard only a couple of planes and helicopters.
At about 6.30pm the GNR came to my village and did not leave till we where all spoken to. They said the position of the fire and the fact it was not coming in our direction we still had to move. The reason the GNR gave was because of the effect of the smoke.
For now every village around Gois has been evacuated and we are all safe. But have we been evacuated because of the other fires or because the local GNR are doing what is right who knows and who cares we are safe.
Peter
Jun 21st 2017, 10:59 am
#65
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Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
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Re: Forest Fires
Hi Peter, I'm glad you're safe and I hope there are no other victims. I see one of the bombeiros has died and I hope that, this year, there will be no scandalous delays in taking care of his family at this tragic time.
Having experienced my own fire last year, I can imagine the nightmare around you. I was in the open and could escape - being in the forest and at night is the stuff of horror films. I had one eucalyptus that I had chopped down and was drying out before cutting. It reignited at least half a dozen times, despite being soaked. The bombeiros called it a "fonte de fogo" and watched it for almost an hour before declaring it safe - but still told me to keep an eye on it. That was ONE eucalyptus, imagine a forest of them!
I know the area north of you, around Talhadas de Vouga, very well. My FiL's house was surrounded by forest - and the idea of being caught on the roads around him in a fire isn't something I care to dwell on. The victims all look so typical of his neighbours too - the old people, the young couples, the visitors, the emigrants returning home for a visit, the little kids. It could have neen us, any time over the last 25 years. Truly, truly horrible.
The government must act to resolve the problem of the forested areas. The number of fires in such a small country is scandalous, so the number of holdings must be reduced and managed as larger estates. If it's not economic, then the trees must be cleared - people's lives should not be at constant risk so that others can make money - others who are subsidised by eveyone in Portugal each time a bombeiro has to tackle an unnecessary fire - others, who may well be receiving a subsidy from the state for maintenance, but prefer to spend it on a new car. Time for change.
Having experienced my own fire last year, I can imagine the nightmare around you. I was in the open and could escape - being in the forest and at night is the stuff of horror films. I had one eucalyptus that I had chopped down and was drying out before cutting. It reignited at least half a dozen times, despite being soaked. The bombeiros called it a "fonte de fogo" and watched it for almost an hour before declaring it safe - but still told me to keep an eye on it. That was ONE eucalyptus, imagine a forest of them!
I know the area north of you, around Talhadas de Vouga, very well. My FiL's house was surrounded by forest - and the idea of being caught on the roads around him in a fire isn't something I care to dwell on. The victims all look so typical of his neighbours too - the old people, the young couples, the visitors, the emigrants returning home for a visit, the little kids. It could have neen us, any time over the last 25 years. Truly, truly horrible.
The government must act to resolve the problem of the forested areas. The number of fires in such a small country is scandalous, so the number of holdings must be reduced and managed as larger estates. If it's not economic, then the trees must be cleared - people's lives should not be at constant risk so that others can make money - others who are subsidised by eveyone in Portugal each time a bombeiro has to tackle an unnecessary fire - others, who may well be receiving a subsidy from the state for maintenance, but prefer to spend it on a new car. Time for change.
Jun 21st 2017, 1:21 pm
#66
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Re: Forest Fires
Hi All
Well I am surprised at a comment of 20 planes in Gois. My house is the other side of the hill from the fire and with the noise of the planes if there had been 20 I would have heard it. I heard only a couple of planes and helicopters.
At about 6.30pm the GNR came to my village and did not leave till we where all spoken to. They said the position of the fire and the fact it was not coming in our direction we still had to move. The reason the GNR gave was because of the effect of the smoke.
For now every village around Gois has been evacuated and we are all safe. But have we been evacuated because of the other fires or because the local GNR are doing what is right who knows and who cares we are safe.
Peter
Well I am surprised at a comment of 20 planes in Gois. My house is the other side of the hill from the fire and with the noise of the planes if there had been 20 I would have heard it. I heard only a couple of planes and helicopters.
At about 6.30pm the GNR came to my village and did not leave till we where all spoken to. They said the position of the fire and the fact it was not coming in our direction we still had to move. The reason the GNR gave was because of the effect of the smoke.
For now every village around Gois has been evacuated and we are all safe. But have we been evacuated because of the other fires or because the local GNR are doing what is right who knows and who cares we are safe.
Peter
I'm pleased that you and yours are safely out of harms way.. that's the main thing
No sooner had we left the Bombeiros yesterday than another fire broke out in Monchique--This time near to Marmelete where friends have a small Quinta. Luckily it was put our within an hour.. The smoke still blew out over us and the ocean in the evening though. A cloudy day today thank goodness. Keep safe everyone.
Jun 21st 2017, 1:32 pm
#67
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Re: Forest Fires
[QUOTE=macliam;12277548]Hi Peter, I'm glad you're safe and I hope there are no other victims. I see one of the bombeiros has died and I hope that, this year, there will be no scandalous delays in taking care of his family at this tragic time.
Having experienced my own fire last year, I can imagine the nightmare around you. I was in the open and could escape - being in the forest and at night is the stuff of horror films. I had one eucalyptus that I had chopped down and was drying out before cutting. It reignited at least half a dozen times, despite being soaked. The bombeiros called it a "fonte de fogo" and watched it for almost an hour before declaring it safe - but still told me to keep an eye on it. That was ONE eucalyptus, imagine a forest of them!
I know the area north of you, around Talhadas de Vouga, very well. My FiL's house was surrounded by forest - and the idea of being caught on the roads around him in a fire isn't something I care to dwell on. The victims all look so typical of his neighbours too - the old people, the young couples, the visitors, the emigrants returning home for a visit, the little kids. It could have neen us, any
I agree with you on the last paragraph Macliam The owners of the plantations must be made to ensure all means of control are in place. I would go further and say instead of looking at tackling the fires first.. (the forests will always be prone to natural and arsonists attacks.) They should be providing means of shelter for every villager in these areas.. Bunkers!? whatever? should be built by these plantation owners ,complete with oxygen tanks /masks whatever for a state of emergency. Its clear that fire overtakes you very fast. No one can expect to get away in their cars.. which as the Bombeiros pointed out to us can simple 'explode' on the heat of the road.One road in and out is also lethal They do have a chance of getting to a central point in the village though. (even more desirable a bunker on their own property. )
Having experienced my own fire last year, I can imagine the nightmare around you. I was in the open and could escape - being in the forest and at night is the stuff of horror films. I had one eucalyptus that I had chopped down and was drying out before cutting. It reignited at least half a dozen times, despite being soaked. The bombeiros called it a "fonte de fogo" and watched it for almost an hour before declaring it safe - but still told me to keep an eye on it. That was ONE eucalyptus, imagine a forest of them!
I know the area north of you, around Talhadas de Vouga, very well. My FiL's house was surrounded by forest - and the idea of being caught on the roads around him in a fire isn't something I care to dwell on. The victims all look so typical of his neighbours too - the old people, the young couples, the visitors, the emigrants returning home for a visit, the little kids. It could have neen us, any
I agree with you on the last paragraph Macliam The owners of the plantations must be made to ensure all means of control are in place. I would go further and say instead of looking at tackling the fires first.. (the forests will always be prone to natural and arsonists attacks.) They should be providing means of shelter for every villager in these areas.. Bunkers!? whatever? should be built by these plantation owners ,complete with oxygen tanks /masks whatever for a state of emergency. Its clear that fire overtakes you very fast. No one can expect to get away in their cars.. which as the Bombeiros pointed out to us can simple 'explode' on the heat of the road.One road in and out is also lethal They do have a chance of getting to a central point in the village though. (even more desirable a bunker on their own property. )
Jun 21st 2017, 2:35 pm
#68
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Forest Fires
Who owns the land planted up almost exclusiveky with Eucalyptus around the Algarve reservoirs.
I suspect that it is not small landowners but probably the local Aguas company or a ministry department..
I suspect that it is not small landowners but probably the local Aguas company or a ministry department..
Jun 21st 2017, 3:34 pm
#69
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Re: Forest Fires
The private plantations on the other side off the valley are only cleaned after the trees have been cropped !
Jun 21st 2017, 9:07 pm
#70
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Re: Forest Fires
Hi Peter, I'm glad you're safe and I hope there are no other victims. I see one of the bombeiros has died and I hope that, this year, there will be no scandalous delays in taking care of his family at this tragic time.
Having experienced my own fire last year, I can imagine the nightmare around you. I was in the open and could escape - being in the forest and at night is the stuff of horror films. I had one eucalyptus that I had chopped down and was drying out before cutting. It reignited at least half a dozen times, despite being soaked. The bombeiros called it a "fonte de fogo" and watched it for almost an hour before declaring it safe - but still told me to keep an eye on it. That was ONE eucalyptus, imagine a forest of them!
I know the area north of you, around Talhadas de Vouga, very well. My FiL's house was surrounded by forest - and the idea of being caught on the roads around him in a fire isn't something I care to dwell on. The victims all look so typical of his neighbours too - the old people, the young couples, the visitors, the emigrants returning home for a visit, the little kids. It could have neen us, any time over the last 25 years. Truly, truly horrible.
The government must act to resolve the problem of the forested areas. The number of fires in such a small country is scandalous, so the number of holdings must be reduced and managed as larger estates. If it's not economic, then the trees must be cleared - people's lives should not be at constant risk so that others can make money - others who are subsidised by eveyone in Portugal each time a bombeiro has to tackle an unnecessary fire - others, who may well be receiving a subsidy from the state for maintenance, but prefer to spend it on a new car. Time for change.
Having experienced my own fire last year, I can imagine the nightmare around you. I was in the open and could escape - being in the forest and at night is the stuff of horror films. I had one eucalyptus that I had chopped down and was drying out before cutting. It reignited at least half a dozen times, despite being soaked. The bombeiros called it a "fonte de fogo" and watched it for almost an hour before declaring it safe - but still told me to keep an eye on it. That was ONE eucalyptus, imagine a forest of them!
I know the area north of you, around Talhadas de Vouga, very well. My FiL's house was surrounded by forest - and the idea of being caught on the roads around him in a fire isn't something I care to dwell on. The victims all look so typical of his neighbours too - the old people, the young couples, the visitors, the emigrants returning home for a visit, the little kids. It could have neen us, any time over the last 25 years. Truly, truly horrible.
The government must act to resolve the problem of the forested areas. The number of fires in such a small country is scandalous, so the number of holdings must be reduced and managed as larger estates. If it's not economic, then the trees must be cleared - people's lives should not be at constant risk so that others can make money - others who are subsidised by eveyone in Portugal each time a bombeiro has to tackle an unnecessary fire - others, who may well be receiving a subsidy from the state for maintenance, but prefer to spend it on a new car. Time for change.
Jun 21st 2017, 9:15 pm
#72
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Re: Forest Fires
Father in law.
sil
Son in law
dil
Daughter in law.
sil
Son in law
dil
Daughter in law.
Jun 21st 2017, 9:42 pm
#73
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Jun 22nd 2017, 7:57 am
#74
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Re: Forest Fires
So did I 
Always used in texts, as cheaper
Always used in texts, as cheaper
Jun 22nd 2017, 10:51 am
#75
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Re: Forest Fires
From a Portuguese friend of mine who lectures on fire prevention etc:
I intend to enforce this to the absolute hilt in the area surrounding my home:
Accordingly to the law (Decreto-Lei n.º 17/2009, de 14 de Janeiro):
The landlords must clean and maintain cleaned of fuel:
- A stripe of more than 10 meters on both sides of any private road that gives access to any building;
- A minimum of 50 meters around the external walls of any building.
If they don’t comply with that, they can be fined 140 to 5,000 euro if it’s a private owner or 800 to 60,000 euro if it’s a company.
In case the area to be cleaned of fuel belongs to different owners each one must clean his own area so in total the law is complied.
The responsibility of the cleanings belongs to the owners, the tenants or whoever is using the land.
In case the owner doesn’t comply the municipality (Camara Municipal) should notify him and if nothing is done the Camara Municipal or the ICNF – Instituto da Conservacao da Natureza e das Florestas should do the cleaning and then ask the owner to pay them the debt.
This will hardly happen. In Portugal the government will never pay upfront of the owner, so they considered another way of solving the problem:
Owner B (who is afraid of burning himself and his belongings) replace Owner A (who should clean his land). Owner B should notify Owner A and post a notice in his land for 20 days (a few written signs in the property). In case nothing happens in the next 10 working days Owner B can do the cleaning and use all legal means to receive payment from Owner A. Owner B can sell the trees to pay those costs and later settle balance with Owner A.
Possibly it’s going to cost you more than the income from the wood. But if it’s the only available solution...
Attached a manual regarding the subject in Portuguese.
After all that happened in your area I believe the municipality or the ICNF will do the job.
You should contact the Camara Municipal and complain about it.
You can print this information and show them so there are no excuses.
Call me if you need any further help.
I intend to enforce this to the absolute hilt in the area surrounding my home:
Accordingly to the law (Decreto-Lei n.º 17/2009, de 14 de Janeiro):
The landlords must clean and maintain cleaned of fuel:
- A stripe of more than 10 meters on both sides of any private road that gives access to any building;
- A minimum of 50 meters around the external walls of any building.
If they don’t comply with that, they can be fined 140 to 5,000 euro if it’s a private owner or 800 to 60,000 euro if it’s a company.
In case the area to be cleaned of fuel belongs to different owners each one must clean his own area so in total the law is complied.
The responsibility of the cleanings belongs to the owners, the tenants or whoever is using the land.
In case the owner doesn’t comply the municipality (Camara Municipal) should notify him and if nothing is done the Camara Municipal or the ICNF – Instituto da Conservacao da Natureza e das Florestas should do the cleaning and then ask the owner to pay them the debt.
This will hardly happen. In Portugal the government will never pay upfront of the owner, so they considered another way of solving the problem:
Owner B (who is afraid of burning himself and his belongings) replace Owner A (who should clean his land). Owner B should notify Owner A and post a notice in his land for 20 days (a few written signs in the property). In case nothing happens in the next 10 working days Owner B can do the cleaning and use all legal means to receive payment from Owner A. Owner B can sell the trees to pay those costs and later settle balance with Owner A.
Possibly it’s going to cost you more than the income from the wood. But if it’s the only available solution...
Attached a manual regarding the subject in Portuguese.
After all that happened in your area I believe the municipality or the ICNF will do the job.
You should contact the Camara Municipal and complain about it.
You can print this information and show them so there are no excuses.
Call me if you need any further help.
Last edited by mfesharne; Jun 22nd 2017 at 10:57 am.