SergeW

Hi everyone,
I might have an opportunity to move to Lisbon to work in Parque Das Nações. I am wondering what neighbourhoods we could consider that are family friendly, offer a relatively easy commute (under 40 minutes),a decent range of convenience shops, and ideally an international school. We have been living 13 years in London without a car, so I'd like a place where this is still possible (at least in the short term). Any recommendations? Thanks

riv

I wonder if your intended employer has a Personnel Officer or similar who deals with these sorts of issues for incoming international personnel ?

Equally, some sort of colleague intranet or online group where messages of this kind could be posted ? The point being that they might have direct knowledge of particularly useful opportunities ~ eg is anyone leaving soon who has a rented house / flat which you could pick up the tenancy of , at least for a short introductory period ?

You may need to post the sort of monthly sum you are hoping not to exceed to be given an idea of rental possibilities : if it were me I would be trying to get a short term, say max 3 months, rental, within walking distance of either the workplace or an easy bus / metro / tram stop. Once installed in the workplace you have a better chance of picking up a flat or house from someone leaving.

As re schools : how old is/ are the child/ren ? Do you have to rule out a good, state, primary school ? If child/ren young enough they might cope with a Portuguese language school environment provided they had additional intensive language tuition for as long as needed. This would be a lot cheaper than private school fees and I think the benefits, cultural and future employment wise, of becoming bilingual in a world language which very very few foreigners speak well, would be an enormous Plus Point to their / her / his education. ( A local, state, school would also totally free up your home location choices.)

In Lisbon there might well be local schools with a lot of experience teaching pupils with little or no Portuguese to start with ~remedial classes and so on.

ricko

There is a Youth Hostal within 15 minutes walk of Parque Das Nações.
As well as being a possible short term solution, I have found the receptionists there a very useful source of information.

SergeW

The plan is to stay permanently if the living conditions are better than the UK. I would prefer not announce my intentions to my employer until I have a better idea if the basic requirements can be met.

My son is 4. His mother is Brazilian so I am not too worried about his ability to learn Portuguese, but rather that he loses his English and gives up on French should he stay long term in a standard school.

The idea to rent close to work at first is interesting. But we are running the risk of being stuck there until the next school year.

Youth Hostel? You mean the same than a YMCA? Doesn't exactly sound family friendly to me
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coleio

Hi,
If you are working in Parque Das Nações you'll have a lot of alternative permutations for a commute as it not far from the bus station and trains at Estacao do Oriente also there's access from across the river etc. It would be best if you went and checked for yourself and made your own mind up as what I consider an acceptable commute you may not, also what I consider an acceptable area you may not. I'd suggest you just booked somewhere in several areas via website like A**B*B and spent time talking to the Host/family/locals/EstateAgent etc to see if anything matches you criteria.

riv

Well if o filho is only 4 that strongly reinforces my original suggestion that you go for a ( well thought of / reviewed ) local, state, primary school. Presumably you are doing the standard bi lingual upbringing of you speaking to him in English and his mother in Portuguese ? In my view it would be much better for him to now have a chance to learn good, grammatical, Portuguese , in a standard, Portuguese accent, at a local school, with you keeping up his English at home. In addition, with internet TV you could let him watch an hour or two a week of children's programming on BBC channels. If you did not feel up to it you could also pay for an hour or two's formal English tuition each week. Portuguese is so much more difficult to learn later in life, it would be a super ( and free ! ) opportunity for him to be enrolled in a Portuguese language school now.

Although not in a sense in my interests to say so, you really might want to look at the Campo de Ourique area.

I am not saying there are no other areas which would be just as good, but I don't know of them. In any event it would be an excellent bet for a short term rental, which could be renewed by mutual agreement if you decided you wished to stay ( I think you would ). It is often described as 'family friendly' in fact. I have no personal knowledge of that aspect but when I am there I do see people pushing push chairs and so on, and there is a small park where you see parents with children. If you ever go to church there is a local parish church, and also not far is the English church St George's. ( And the English language Lisbon Players theatre group [ they have a website ]. They welcome volunteers [ not just as actors ] which would be a good way to meet a range of people. )

It is a grid of streets distant enough from the centre of town to have an air of calm. There are a number of old fashioned restaurants, a few mini markets. The buildings are mostly blocks of flats ( four storeys high) some with lifts, some not. Some top floor flats have good views and generously sized rooms. I think street parking is mostly restricted to residents ~ not that you would need or want a car for getting around Lisbon. Cars move around slowly.

One thing which has become fashionable for the young set is the Mercado ( as was ) which although it does still have stalls selling fruit, veg and meat, now has a lot of fashionable restaurants and bars. Could be fun for your evening's entertainment just a short walk from your flat.

It is walkable to the Shopping Center das Amoreiras. And to the Rato metro station. And ( because it is a downhill walk ) TO the Bairro Alto ( but you would probably want a cab back, or pick up the Tram 28 at Praça Luís de Camões. ) If ever you need it the British Embassy is not far from Rato.

For you it would be ( I think ) a perfect commute to Parque das Nações : about a 10 minute walk is the terminus stop of the 28 Tram : yes the famous one which fills up with tourists along the way, but which also does local commuting duty.
You have every chance of getting a seat as it is the start of the route, and you would get off downtown in the Baixa ~not exactly at the door of the Parque das Nações, but an easy and pleasant walk to it. ( Free ! exercise built in to your commute ! ) I would estimate your door to door commute as just under an hour. And a much much more pleasant experience than any conceivable commute in London.

The Idealista real estate website has a number of flats for rent starting at around €1,000 per month ( plus bills ) for a 1 x bed. For a 2 bed with generously proportioned rooms, recently done up and furnished you would be looking at minimum €1,500 ~ more choice at around €2,000 per cal month. Does your employer offer a housing allowance ? If your salary would remain similar to what you earn in London you would have a much improved standard and quality of life in Lisbon, that's a raging certainty. Much much safer on the streets for one thing ( though sadly no longer as safe as it was before the Revolution ).

I have noticed that some of the flats for rent now have 'reduced by' signs which suggests that maybe it is turning into a renters' market a bit ( but not so much ! ).
But you might well find a landlord willing to give you a 3 month quickie short rental for say €1,500 per cal month.

If you have the opportunity to re locate to Lisbon with much the same salary as at present I think you would be mad not to give it a go.

Moses2013

In theory yes but moving to the warm weather cities in Europe can bring other challenges. Too often people move with wrong expectations and how easy will you find another job that pays the same if that job goes and what about language? Yes the wife is from Brazil and that brings other challenges. Too often marriages fail, as the wife will want the same standard with better weather. Unfortunately I've seen this too often with people who have Brazilian wifes. If they have to move back to UK or Northern Europe they constantly moan about weather but don't want to be poor in Portugal either.

ricko

I've never stayed at a YMCA, so cannot compare it to a PT youth hostal.
I have stayed at different youth hostals whilst hiking short secions of El Camino, and have seen families with
young children staying there.
However, the comfort varies from hostal to hostal.
My suggestion was aimed more for any reconnaisance trip you may make to explore the area. If you do, the hostals are
usually a very good source of local information.
It has been pointed out a number of times in this forum that, when looking for accommodation, you get a much better
response in PT by visiting the area, rather than using electronic communications.

SergeW

Catching up with the thread now and delighted to see your very helpful replies.
Moses, if marriages broke because of poor weather, my Brazilian wife would have left me a long time ago ;-)

I must say I am surprised at the rental rates. It's almost as much as the outskirts of London.
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Red Eric

Like many another (Barcelona, anybody?), the city has undergone an accelerated transformation over the past 15 or so years.

Whilst the new version may well have added benefits - particularly for the well-heeled visitor - not everything that comes with it has universal appeal.

riv

WELL ~I did say that unless you state what your price range is for rentals no one with local knowledge can advise. And yes, one could get into a political discussion as to whether the internationalisation of Lisbon over the last 20 years has on balance benefited the local population ( short answer: NO ~but the political élite would never agree ).

But the other point is this : you say that the €1,500 pcm ( plus bills ) which I have suggested ( from checking real estate agents websites ) as a likely ball park figure for a 2 x bed in Campo de Ourique is 'almost as much as the outskirts of London ' .

But that's a hugely important point of difference : Campo de Ourique is NOT the outskirts of Lisbon. It is virtually in the centre, but in a sort of oasis of calm. With a small park in which a young child can happily and safely play.
And with the start/ end stop of the Tram 28 with which you can easily reach the absolute centre of Lisbon if you don't want to walk.
Plus if these things mean anything to you : Lisbon is a stunningly beautiful, most days sunny, comparatively small, comparatively safe, capital city, whereas London is a visual mess, as often as not with grey skies and drizzle, and often unsafe.

The quality of life which you would enjoy from living in an area from which you could ( at weekends or in the evenings ) simply walk to ( still) reasonably priced restaurants, cinemas, other leisure venues, schools, etc. etc. is a world away from what you would endure at the far end of a London tube line [ I have lived and owned in London and even 20 years ago I concluded that it had become an unliveable, unaffordable, hell~hole ( and I am censoring my language in that last word ) ].

Moses2013

Well I can only say that I've seen it so many times. Why does she want to move to Lisbon? Barcelona is the same and low wages and high costs frustrate those who thought they were making a permanent move. For 20 year old singles great but a couple will have other challenges. Might not be the case with you but be warned.

Moses2013

I suppose it all depends what one wants in life but that London is grey skies and drizzle all the time is also very wrong. Most of the time it's actually very good, sunny and too dry these days but again depends where exactly you are in the city and winter is winter of course. Any city would be my nightmare regardless how beautiful people describe it and even Lisbon has too much smog for my liking. Luckily there are still many options to be close to the city and still have the balance, or look at completely different towns.

Rosemary

I expect that she would prefer Lisbon to Barcelona because of the language. Also the job opportunity is in Lisbon. So two good reasons.

Rosemary

Moses2013

i said Barcelona is the same, not that it's better. What I meant is that one should never look at the job opportunity today and focus on what jobs I could get if I lose that job. Unfortunately many people move to the warm weather cities for a job and don't understand that it's very different to Northern Europe. If you lose that job tomorrow, could you feed a family with a low paid job.