sportpix

I've been counting my blessings at finding this forum some months ago, as the information received has been informative and has encouraged me to push ahead with a much needed move back to Europe, and perhaps to the nicest part of Europe (excited...).

From what I have recently gathered I need to get myself to Portugal, rent an apartment for three months and during that time register for an ID card (NIF?), open a bank account, get a Portuguese SIM card, apply for NHR status and swap my old pink A4 UK driving license for a Portuguese one with a picture on the front. OK..., but...?

Some people have used a lawyer to take care of some/all of this. Is this advisable? I do not have a problem with paying for this if it achieves the end result - residency before the end of December this year. Some people have said that they applied at one "town hall?" and picked up the residency paperwork the same or following day, while others have said at the same town hall they had to wait 90 days. Can this be true? Can a lawyer make this less painful, or someone else of a relevant profession (confused)?

I am hopeful that B Johnson will add Portugal to the free fly zone in the next week or so and I then plan to fly to the UK in early August to briefly see my newborn granddaughter and then to book a one-way flight to Faro and to begin the registration process (excited...). I am happy to book and pay for an apartment for three months but I would hope that the precess doesn't take that long, not least as I have an appointment with my orthopaedic surgeon here in HK in mid-September. Work still seems to be months away...

If the UK doesn't go backwards with its opening up process (although I fear it will) my wife and I will then fly to the UK for our son's rescheduled wedding at the end of November and at that time we will both visit Portugal and start the process of looking for a suitable area to live and to buy a suitable house to live in (excited...).

If all of this somehow comes to pass I would hope to head back to Portugal early next year and spend as much time there as needed to comply with the residency rules, while at the same time undertaking the massive process of unwinding 30+ years of living in HK - ie selling the house and binning half a lifetime of tat (worried, bordering on terrified...).

Having been an expat in a VERY foreign country for so long, I am sure that there will be many pitfalls and annoyances from bureaucracy and petty rules that will make the move back to Europe somewhat of a challenge. I'm up for that.

It could even be the case that the local red wines on offer in Portugal will not in any way measure up to the smooth tasting Australian Shiraz wines we are able to buy in HK, and with zero tax on booze, a decent bottle can be had for about seven quid a bottle, or less if your taste buds are older than mine (terrified...)

So, should I be excited, worried, terrified or confused, or all four...?

dingg

Be excited with a dash of worry and confusion 😎.

We came and did everything ourselves no lawyer needed, other than helping to ensure our property purchase was all above board.

Nif, bank account, residency, utente numbers all sorted relatively quickly and without much hassle, car matriculated quite easily too, driving licences exchanged but Leiria imt not the most helpful for both things.

Recent health scare sorted after cv19 stalled everything, endoscope done, letter for doctor from consultant, same day appointment made and see doctor with medication to suit, all done in one day.

Re the wine, I suspect you'll find something better and cheaper here 😊

Good luck

coleio

Hi,
I'd suggest.
If possible, for someone to get here ASAP to start the process, Choose a place to go, get NIF (tax number) no problem, then bank account etc ......................things here take longer and differ from place to place so being here in person is the way to start the process.

riv

I second Coleio's recommendation / suggestion : just get to Portugal and start things off by renting somewhere cheapo , opening a bank account and getting an NIF and registering at the local Câmara for residency. Even if technically possible I would NOT leave it till November / December as you just don't know what obstacles might arise .

I would suggest that the latest you should start your flat / house tenancy should be early September ( by which date you should benefit from off season rental rates if you choose a touristy area, as opposed to Back of Beyond ). Do not waste time looking for a place to purchase till you have lived in the country several months. 3 to 6 month rental is the way to start off.

You need be in Portugal only a week or two initially to start it all off, then go to UK to do whatever you need to do there , and return to Portugal when those engagements are over. And maybe even in between such engagements if there are more than one.

Oh, and there are plenty of decent wines for £7 a throw, though a bit extra brings excellent ones : suggest you whet the appetite by taking out a ( hard copy postal ) sub to the Algarve Resident which has an excellent wine correspondent. You may see rental ads of interest there too.

suiko

As a wine geek currently in Uk but intending to do the same as you soon, I can assure you that the wine offer is a lot more interesting in Portugal. And you can easily order other European wines online.

scot47

If you do not speak Portuguese it might be advisable to get someone to guide you through it all

sportpix

I do NOT speak Portuguese so I would be more than happy to pay someone to help me through the various processes that need to be done to achieve residency. Are there agencies there that facilitate such things for a fee? Having just read that the Chinese government has decreed that no professional sporting events will be allowed to take place for the rest of 2020 I'm confident that I will be on a plane to the UK within a couple of weeks, and on to Portugal, as I will have no work to keep me here. Still terrified about the local wine...

Rambling archer

You do know that Port comes from Portugal dont you? OK it is port because they use the grapes in a special way, but they manage to make some excellent wines in the Douro valley with the left over vines !! Seriously, if you like Australian, you will surely come to terms with the huge selection of really good wines from all over Portugal, red, white, rich, smooth, rustic, and of course the vinho verde, chilled which for the present heatwave really does touch the spot! Good luck on your travels ....
Looks like you would be happier engaging a local lawyer once you get settled in but really apart from actually getting into a Financas office to start it all off, it is not too bad a process - just a bit frustrating at times, and although they always say they do not speak English - to cover themselves in case of mis-translation I think - you will find that after you have struggled with your Bom Dia, quero um NIF - they will relent and use the bit they have to help you through the first steps. Mostly it is having the correct paperwork handy, which this forum will have helped you with already, and handing over copies of everything, and off you go ... ! Keep calm and keep smiling, and learn a few useful phrases before you arrive - that works wonders!

sportpix

I do indeed know where Port comes from. Drank plenty on infrequent trips to Macau over the years, although I consider it headache material... As regards locals not wanting to speak English, the Japanese are the same and for the same reasons, however they all learn it at school. English is an official language in HK so in government offices and such there is rarely an issue being understood.

I checked online for immigration consultants but could only find three, all in Lisbon, and where I don't plan to stay. My basic plan is to book a hotel room for a week in the Algarve and during that time look for a flat to rent for three months. Doing it online seems to invite unforeseen problems, such as being next door to a railway line or similar. I need somewhere with secure parking and in a location location that allows me to walk to F&B opportunities at night, as I don't drink and drive. At this time I will be able to the local vino on offer.

Just curious - is there any form of lockdown now in Portugal or is everything open? I checked online this afternoon and found a government notice from 3 July that recommended people to stay at home and to go out only for essential travel.

macliam

I hope the comment that "locals don't want to speak English" is not a suggestion that you think they should, because the willingness of an individual to converse in a language literally "foreign" to them is something that should be appreciated, not assumed. Unless someone is an interpreter, sits under a sign saying "English spoken", or is authorised to speak foreign languages on behalf of their organization, then the assumption must be that it is your responsibility to speak or understand the offical language.... or to find someone who does. The issue is not whether someone took lessons in a language at school, the issue is their competence to use it in situations where accuracy is required or with any fluency - French has been taught in UK schools for decades, but how many people in the UK are fluent, or comfortable speaking it in a semi-official capacity?

I think your idea of visiting the Algarve is a good idea, but the idea that you will find a long-term rental in a week may be optimistic, particularly if you have specific requirements which may be difficult to fill - unless money is no object. You will find that even hotels within walking distance of facilities have little, if any, "secure parking" - and those that do, charge for it as a separate item..... because, generally, it is not required. I appreciate that many of your assumptions stem from a lack of familiarity with Portugal, but I'd suggest you travel with an open mind, rather than looking for possible issues.

The same applies to your comments about Portuguese wine. The best Portuguese wines can rival any other producer and the variety is truly impressive - check Barca Velha. Obviously quality varies, as does individual taste - and price.....but it is hard to imagine that anyone will not find something to enjoy. However, if you seek a replica of a particular wine from elsewhere, you may be disappointed. Likewise with the food - looking for something which is not a Portuguese staple may find you presented with a pastiche of the original..... just like eating Chinese food from a local take-away, or "Indian" food, in the UK...... even "Italian" food with the ubiquitous "Spaghetti Bolognese". In tourist areas, the danger of being offered these "international" dishes is much higher.... and they have to be accepted for what they are. Luckily, the Portuguese staples generally provide more than enough choice and are likely to be produced by someone ith many years of experience.

If possible, book yourself longer to settle in and take the pressure off yourself in finding somewhere more permanent - and try to enjoy you first experience of Portugal, rather than expecting it to meet your expectations.

Rambling archer

Depending where you want to be in the Algarve, consider Lagos which is a town in its own right and not too empty in the winter months. Excellent flats are usually available in the Marina area, easy walking distance to centre of town and shops and beach, and lots of choice of flats (they built too many in the boom period!!!) or try the IberLagos complex near the Dona Ana Praia beach. The old town is a delight and not too far from Faro (capital of Algarve) and Portimao is practically next door - big town with admin offices).
As to Lockdown - at present Portugal is trying very hard to be open for business - however, there are rules and expectations (though the tourists in the beach resorts are proving difficult to keep in line at night). Basically everyone tries to social distance - queues outside shops as limited numbers allowed inside - all nicely spaced out. Masks in indoors eg admin offices, Clinics, shops, shopping malls, banks (!!), restaurants and cafés - mask off when settled at table (well-spaced out) eating/drinking. Older folk and people at high risk (cancer treatments, low immune capability, recovering from illnesses etc etc) are staying home and the family or community are still making sure they are looked after. Working from home is still encouraged where feasible. Factories and in particular meat-processing plants have proven to be hot spots for passing on infections - hence most of the problems round the Lisbon area). Old folks homes (Lar is how they are called) are also still having problems and account for some more very locallised hot spots. On the whole the folk seem to be resigned to coping as best they can until some progress is made on treatment, vaccine, immunity post-infection rates, etc etc but then again we are all getting itchy feet and patience is getting a bit thin as time goes on. There are no actual travel restrictions now - apart from in and around the very localised hotspots. There is even a very useful App to identify how full or empty the beaches are (river and sea) so you can decide where best to have your day out on the beach while still socially distancing !! Brollies and sunloungers set out at suitable distances on the organised bigger beaches.
Incidentally the masks for the general public are allowed to be non-medically-certified - so that those can be used for the front-line workers - and we can use home-made or shop-bought cloth ones designed just to contain the movement of air from/to the mouth and nose - with the hope that this PLUS keeping distance is enough to keep the cross-infection down to manageable rates. Medical grade masks can be obtained from the Pharmacy (queues outside and distancing inside the shop of course) and are not expensive, depending on the grade you need if "at risk".
Hope this help - cheers! Off to have a chilled white port before a late lunch - very hot here at the moment in a heatwave!

sportpix

Thank you. It does indeed help. The trip we booked and then had to cancel last month had hotel bookings in Tavira, Cascais and finally Lagos, each place I think three nights. I'm not much of a beach person but I usually swim three times a week, which is irritating as our government has gone and closed all of the pools, gyms, libraries and even the golf courses! Our Covid cases have rocketed in the past week from zero to about 50 per day, hence the shut down. If all goes to plan I should be on a plane west at the end of the month and then I can begin the registration process. It's been very hot here for weeks - close to 40C most days with punishing humidity. My dog hates it...

Sunseeker1st

We use GB InPort owned and operated by Gracy Biss, Ricardo and Liliana. Their offices are at Rua do Viveiro, Lote 4. 3D in Lagoa located next to the Finanças.

Landline 282 341 888 Gracy mobile 965 084 828 Ricardo mobile 966 008 190

We have used the Biss's for over 12 years, residencias, driving licences (age over 70) etc. Friends used them on our recommendation for matriculating cars from UK and Spain.

Highly recommend them.

suiko

What's the name of that app, Rambling Archer?

Rambling archer

Hi Suiko - It is InfoPraia - App for smartphones but this is the reference as seen on PC - https://apps.apple.com/pt/app/info-praia/id1467347173
By the way - are you bringing pets from Hong Kong? That is a whole other Thread's worth of complications coming in from non-EU country, and FarEast as well ... Our dogs suffering a bit in the heatwave and have to be content with water - they each had a "cool" shower this morning - even the water from the tap is warm at present. Due to cool a little over the weekend but be warm next week too - It's summer!
Cheers - Gin and T before lunch today I think! Lemons off the tree in the garden of course ...