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The end of the RNH is near?

The end of the RNH is near?

Old Jan 12th 2020, 11:46 am
  #1  
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Default The end of the RNH is near?

More than ever they talk about changing the RNH.
Here an articile published yesterday : https://expresso.pt/economia/2020-01...s-estrangeiros

Head lines:
  • Respecting the RNH for the rest of the 10 year's period
  • A flat tax of 10% with
  • a minimum of 7,500 EUR per year
The flat tax of 10% will still attract people, but I wonder wether the minimum tax of 7,500 EUR will make people happy.
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Old Jan 12th 2020, 1:04 pm
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

It means that
a) The net is now big enough to haul it in, and
b) before other countries gang up to stop it completely.
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Old Jan 12th 2020, 1:25 pm
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

Just talk and most likely, rubbish talk imo.
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Old Jan 13th 2020, 7:40 am
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

Originally Posted by dingg View Post
Just talk and most likely, rubbish talk imo.
I think this will be serious issue! It is the left wing that want to have these changes already in the budget-law 2020.
The thing is that the main purpose was to attract high qualified people, but most of the people that have the RNH are pensioners. So that is for the government disappointing.
A lot of these pensioners enjoy free healthcare ......... The healthcare is free in Pt, but Portugal will be reimbursed for the costs by other EU-countries when you have a pension out of these countries.

I think the rules will change ..... in 2020? or 2021?
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Old Jan 13th 2020, 7:52 am
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

I am amazed that anyone is surprised that this is now being discussed by the Port Gov.
Portuguese governments have a track record in U turning, esp as it wont affect the local electorate, exactly the opposite in fact.
And with an oven ready reason in that they can put the blame on other countries of the EU.
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Old Jan 13th 2020, 8:00 am
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

Originally Posted by wellinever View Post
I am amazed that anyone is surprised that this is now being discussed by the Port Gov.
Portuguese governments have a track record in U turning, esp as it wont affect the local electorate, exactly the opposite in fact.
And with an oven ready reason in that they can put the blame on other countries of the EU.
I agree.
The left wing wanted already a change in 2017, but now it will be more easier. The change will be for the pensioners, not for the qualified people.
The prices for real estate have risen too fast in Lisbon, Porto and the Algarve and this is really a problem for the local people!
Even the site Idealista.pt has now an article about these possible changes in the near future.

They also want to change the Golden Visa program, because the outcome was too disappointing from an economic point of view.

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Old Jan 13th 2020, 8:08 am
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

Just look back 20 years when they changed the rules on porperties owned by Offshore companies in Gibralter...............that cost people a fortune.

Asset (house) was owned by the company (every lawyer had a drawer full of ready companies in Gibralter), the Portuguese gov knew this was happening, most non Portuguese bought their houses this way, to avoid paying transfer tax when selling the property, as it was the company that was sold not the property, hence no tax as the company was not in Portugal.
In 2001 I think it was, the rules suddenly changed, and people had to transfer the property itself to themselves and pay the transfer tax or face the consequences, which was that they would pay a huge premium on Annual rates,,,,so as I said they have a track record.
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Old Jan 13th 2020, 2:57 pm
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

So pensioners moving to Portugal contribute little or nothing is that what is been said here ?.... what about purchasing a property and spending money in the local economy as well as paying for utilities to Portuguese companies. If the alteration to RNH is really on the agenda then where is the government proposal to support this rather than theory from a political news website ?. If you take the UK as an example where income attracts no tax until it is above £12,500 then I think having to pay a minimum 7,500 euro as mentioned in the first post is fantasy.
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Old Jan 14th 2020, 7:35 pm
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

The BE today made two proposals, under the 2020 State Budget, to end the golden visas and to end the RNH.
https://www.noticiasaominuto.com/pol...-nao-habituais

I read reactions from the local people and they say "Finally, this will stop". I cannot blame them.

Some think it is just rubbish talk and fantasy .........
I think this is a serious matter.

Last edited by Pilou; Jan 14th 2020 at 7:47 pm.
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Old Jan 14th 2020, 7:43 pm
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

It will be interesting to see the final outcome, but if I know the Gov they will take no prisoners and just stop the perks from a day in time, no ifs no buts.
House sales will drop in the ALgarve, alomng with prices I guess. The French have replaced the Brits over the last 2 years and paying good money for apartments and houses.
Wonder what they will do if they loose the status?? Sell up or stay on and pay the taxes due.
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Old Jan 14th 2020, 7:45 pm
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

we all know they old proverb...How do you make a small fortune in Portugal?
Answer.........Start with a big one
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Old Jan 14th 2020, 8:05 pm
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

Originally Posted by wellinever View Post
The French have replaced the Brits over the last 2 years and paying good money for apartments and houses.
Wonder what they will do if they loose the status?? Sell up or stay on and pay the taxes due.
I presume the goverment will respect the RNH for the rest of the 10 years and will stop this facility for new expats.
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Old Jan 14th 2020, 9:18 pm
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

What is the timescale for the 2020 budget to come into effect
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Old Jan 14th 2020, 10:16 pm
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

Submitted by BE...

Is this the same BE who proposed similar last time and failed to get anything ratified?
Also the same BE that has less than 9.5% of seats?
Finally the same BE that has been accused by Portuguese media, officials, people of proposing impossible schemes, changes, etc purely to grab extra votes with no intention of ever carrying through?

In fairness, yes of course I believe NHR and visa will be stopped.... but I cant see it being for a few years yet and then to new joiners only.
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Old Jan 15th 2020, 4:28 am
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Default Re: The end of the RNH is near?

Originally Posted by wellinever View Post
Just look back 20 years when they changed the rules on porperties owned by Offshore companies in Gibralter...............that cost people a fortune.

Asset (house) was owned by the company (every lawyer had a drawer full of ready companies in Gibralter), the Portuguese gov knew this was happening, most non Portuguese bought their houses this way, to avoid paying transfer tax when selling the property, as it was the company that was sold not the property, hence no tax as the company was not in Portugal.
In 2001 I think it was, the rules suddenly changed, and people had to transfer the property itself to themselves and pay the transfer tax or face the consequences, which was that they would pay a huge premium on Annual rates,,,,so as I said they have a track record.
I think that the underlying concept is different. What is referred to here is a scheme which uses mechanisms to circumvent legitimate rules, and such schemes are open to attack on existing arrangements at any time. This is what happened in the UK, for example, with the pre-owned assets tax, designed to fill a tax avoidance loophole.

NHR is not a loophole, of course, it is a tax benefit and, like all taxation decisions of all nations, is subject to revision, change, or abolition.
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